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Veset: Difference between revisions
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# If a woman sees a pattern of three days in a row and then repeats that same cycle twice more she established a veset.<ref>Rabbenu Chananel understood the gemara Niddah 64a that you need to see 9 times in a pattern to establish a changing veset such as the 15th of one month, then the 16th of the next month, and then the 17th of the third month, the cycle continues for another 6 months starting the fourth and seventh time again on the 15th. Tosfot disagrees with Rabbenu Chananel in the gemara. Rashba (Torat Habyait 14b) writes that even though we disagree with the Rabbenu Chananel’s understanding we still hold that his case is considered a veset. Tur and Shulchan Aruch YD 189:8 agree.</ref> | # If a woman sees a pattern of three days in a row and then repeats that same cycle twice more she established a veset.<ref>Rabbenu Chananel understood the gemara Niddah 64a that you need to see 9 times in a pattern to establish a changing veset such as the 15th of one month, then the 16th of the next month, and then the 17th of the third month, the cycle continues for another 6 months starting the fourth and seventh time again on the 15th. Tosfot disagrees with Rabbenu Chananel in the gemara. Rashba (Torat Habyait 14b) writes that even though we disagree with the Rabbenu Chananel’s understanding we still hold that his case is considered a veset. Tur and Shulchan Aruch YD 189:8 agree.</ref> | ||
==How to uproot a veset== | ==How to uproot a veset== | ||
# For a veset hachodesh seeing an earlier day during the month doesn't uproot the veset unless that day comes and passes without seeing blood.<ref>Bet Yosef 189:13(2) s.v. v'im tomar, Shach 189:31</ref> | # To uproot a veset kavuah the following conditions need to be met: | ||
# For a veset haflagah there is a dispute whether the shorter interval uproots a longer interval. Many poskim hold it doesn't uproot it.<ref>Bet Yosef 189:13 and Darkei Moshe 189:1 imply that a shorter period doesn't uproot a longer interval. This is also the opinion of the Taz 189:18 and [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=36277&st=&pgnum=124 Beit Meir 189:13]. Shach 189:31 holds that it does. Badei Hashulchan (Tziyunim 132) writes that we don’t hold like the Shach that a shorter interval uproots a longer one. </ref> | ## The day of the veset needs to pass three times without seeing blood and she needs to do a bedika during the veset. <ref>Raavad ([http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8785&st=&pgnum=45 Shaar Tikkun Havestot 2 p. 47]), [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40885&st=&pgnum=435 Ramban (Hilchot Niddah 5:19)], Chavot Daat 189:10, The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 325</ref> | ||
## A veset kavuah is only uprooted if it is replaced with another veset. If she missed 3 times on different days and doesn't establish a veset, she doesn't need to be concerned about veset but if she sees on it once it returns.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 189:15. The [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8785&st=&pgnum=32 Raavad (Shaar Tikkun Vestot p. 34)] writes that a veset is only completely uprooted if it is replaced by another veset. If she missed 3 times practically she isn't concerned for the veset but unless she establishes a new veset if she sees on the old veset once, that veset returns. This is view of the Tur and Bet Yosef 189:15 and The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 324. The Sidrei Tahara 189:19 explains that the [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40885&st=&pgnum=435 Ramban (Hilchot Niddah 6:5)] holds that if she saw on 3 different days then the veset is uprooted completely but nonetheless accepts the ruling of Shulchan Aruch. Simla 189:33 disagrees with Shulchan Aruch based on the Ramban and Rashi. Rav Mordechai Willig (Am Mordechai on Shulchan Aruch p. 127) agrees and suggests that even the Raavad doesn't hold like the Tur and Shulchan Aruch understood him. See there. </ref> | |||
## Most poskim hold that if a woman saw blood before her veset and continued to see blood during her veset that blood doesn't further establish the veset but also doesn't uproot it. <ref>[http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8339&st=&pgnum=31 Shaarei Tohar 4:21] writes that a continuation of a flow also uproots a veset just like it isn’t sufficient to establish a veset. Rabbi Willig (Am Mordechai on Shulchan Aruch p. 128) prefers this opinion. However, Igrot Moshe YD 1:122 assumes that if a woman continues to see during her veset that doesn’t establish but also doesn’t uproot the veset. Minchat Yitzchak 8:74 agrees based on the Chavot Daat 189:7. Shevet Halevi 5:107:13 is also strict.</ref> | |||
# A veset sheino kavuah is uprooted if she missed seeing blood and even if she forgot and didn't do a bedika.<ref>[http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=40885&st=&pgnum=435 Ramban (Hilchot Niddah 5:19)], The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 325</ref> | |||
# For a veset hachodesh, seeing an earlier day during the month doesn't uproot the veset unless that day comes and passes without seeing blood.<ref>Bet Yosef 189:13(2) s.v. v'im tomar, Shach 189:31</ref> | |||
# For a veset haflagah, there is a dispute whether the shorter interval uproots a longer interval. Many poskim hold it doesn't uproot it.<ref>Bet Yosef 189:13 and Darkei Moshe 189:1 imply that a shorter period doesn't uproot a longer interval. This is also the opinion of the Taz 189:18 and [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=36277&st=&pgnum=124 Beit Meir 189:13]. Shach 189:31 holds that it does. Badei Hashulchan (Tziyunim 132) writes that we don’t hold like the Shach that a shorter interval uproots a longer one. Shevet Halevi 2:81 and 5:107 doesn't hold like the Shach in most cases.</ref> | |||
# If a woman saw prior to her veset, the next haflagah interval is counted from that time she just saw and she doesn't need to worry about the veset as it fell out from the last interval. For example, if a woman saw on the 1st and 20th of Nissan, her haflagah (20 days) lands on the 9th of Iyar. But if she sees earlier on the 1st of Iyar she doesn't have to be to concerned about the 9th of Iyar since the new haflagah is calculated from the last period. Therefore, her veset haflagah would be the 12th of Iyar and the 20th of Iyar. <ref>Ramban (Hilchot Niddah 5:22) writes that if a woman sees on the 1st and 20th of Nissan and didn't see on the 1st of Iyar she's concerned about the 9th of Iyar because of the haflagah of 20 days. Bet Yosef 189:13 infers that if she did see on the 1st of Iyar she wouldn't be concerned about the 9th of Iyar. The Darkei Moshe 189:1 argues that the Ramban was giving a unique case but the halacha is that she should be concerned for the 9th of Iyar whether or not she saw on the 1st of Iyar. The Rama 189:13 rules according to his opinion in the Darkei Moshe. While the Taz 189:19 defends the position of the Rama, the Bach 189:16 and Shach 189:31 strongly disagree because once she sees for a shorter interval of 12 days she uprooted her interval of 20 days. Even if one disagrees with the Shach, another reason to disagree with the Taz is that we restart haflagah count from the last time she saw (Bach 16, Sidrei Tahara 14, [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=36277&st=&pgnum=124 Beit Meir 189:13]). Badei HaShulchan 189:106 is lenient but adds that one who is strict for the Rama 189:13 and Taz 189:19 should be blessed.</ref> | # If a woman saw prior to her veset, the next haflagah interval is counted from that time she just saw and she doesn't need to worry about the veset as it fell out from the last interval. For example, if a woman saw on the 1st and 20th of Nissan, her haflagah (20 days) lands on the 9th of Iyar. But if she sees earlier on the 1st of Iyar she doesn't have to be to concerned about the 9th of Iyar since the new haflagah is calculated from the last period. Therefore, her veset haflagah would be the 12th of Iyar and the 20th of Iyar. <ref>Ramban (Hilchot Niddah 5:22) writes that if a woman sees on the 1st and 20th of Nissan and didn't see on the 1st of Iyar she's concerned about the 9th of Iyar because of the haflagah of 20 days. Bet Yosef 189:13 infers that if she did see on the 1st of Iyar she wouldn't be concerned about the 9th of Iyar. The Darkei Moshe 189:1 argues that the Ramban was giving a unique case but the halacha is that she should be concerned for the 9th of Iyar whether or not she saw on the 1st of Iyar. The Rama 189:13 rules according to his opinion in the Darkei Moshe. While the Taz 189:19 defends the position of the Rama, the Bach 189:16 and Shach 189:31 strongly disagree because once she sees for a shorter interval of 12 days she uprooted her interval of 20 days. Even if one disagrees with the Shach, another reason to disagree with the Taz is that we restart haflagah count from the last time she saw (Bach 16, Sidrei Tahara 14, [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=36277&st=&pgnum=124 Beit Meir 189:13]). Badei HaShulchan 189:106 is lenient but adds that one who is strict for the Rama 189:13 and Taz 189:19 should be blessed.</ref> | ||
# If a woman saw before the 30th day she doesn't need to worry about the original 30th day and just recalculates the Onah Beynonit from the last time she saw.<ref>Bach 189:16, Chavot Daat 189:13, Rabbi Akiva Eiger 189:3. This is unlike the position of the Taz 189:17.</ref> For example, if a woman saw on the 18th day after her last period she doesn't need to be concerned about the Onah Beynonit from her last interval which would land 12 days after her period (which could be her tevilah night). Rather the Onah Beynonit is reset and she is concerned for the 30th day from her last period. | # If a woman saw before the 30th day she doesn't need to worry about the original 30th day and just recalculates the Onah Beynonit from the last time she saw.<ref>Bach 189:16, Chavot Daat 189:13, Rabbi Akiva Eiger 189:3. This is unlike the position of the Taz 189:17.</ref> For example, if a woman saw on the 18th day after her last period she doesn't need to be concerned about the Onah Beynonit from her last interval which would land 12 days after her period (which could be her tevilah night). Rather the Onah Beynonit is reset and she is concerned for the 30th day from her last period. | ||
==When is the veset?== | ==When is the veset?== | ||
