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Veset: Difference between revisions
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# If a woman sees her period after an interval of a certain number of days that is called a veset haflagah. For example, if she sees every 28 days that is a veset.<ref>Gemara Niddah 63b, Tur and Shulchan YD 184:1</ref> | # If a woman sees her period after an interval of a certain number of days that is called a veset haflagah. For example, if she sees every 28 days that is a veset.<ref>Gemara Niddah 63b, Tur and Shulchan YD 184:1</ref> | ||
# If a woman sees her period on a certain day on the Hebrew calendar that is called a veset hachodesh.<ref>The Gemara Niddah 39b and 64a both use cases of veset that are tied to the monthly calendar. Tosfot 64a s.v. itmar explains that a veset is established by the Jewish calendar even if some months are 29 days and others are 30. This is also the opinion of the Raavad ([http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8785&st=&pgnum=46 Baalei Hanefesh p. 48] cited by Rashba), Rashba (Taharat Habayit 9a and Mishmeret Habayit 9a), Rambam (Isurei Biyah 8:6), Maggid Mishna (Isurei Biyah 8:6), Tur and Shulchan Aruch 189:6. Even though the Ramban (Chiddushim 64a) questions this approach in his Hilchot Niddah 5:12 he accepted it.</ref> | # If a woman sees her period on a certain day on the Hebrew calendar that is called a veset hachodesh.<ref>The Gemara Niddah 39b and 64a both use cases of veset that are tied to the monthly calendar. Tosfot 64a s.v. itmar explains that a veset is established by the Jewish calendar even if some months are 29 days and others are 30. This is also the opinion of the Raavad ([http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8785&st=&pgnum=46 Baalei Hanefesh p. 48] cited by Rashba), Rashba (Taharat Habayit 9a and Mishmeret Habayit 9a), Rambam (Isurei Biyah 8:6), Maggid Mishna (Isurei Biyah 8:6), Tur and Shulchan Aruch 189:6. Even though the Ramban (Chiddushim 64a) questions this approach in his Hilchot Niddah 5:12 he accepted it.</ref> | ||
## A woman who usually sees on a day of the week every certain number of works that creates a veset. For example, if she saw on Sunday and then 29 days later on a Sunday she needs to be concerned about the Sunday after four weeks later. That weeks a veset with three times and is a veset sheino kavuah with one time. <ref>Niddah 11a, Rashba (Torat Habayit 9a), Shulchan Aruch YD 189:6</ref> | |||
# A woman who doesn't have a fixed Veset (established with 3 times), which is very common, has to observe a veset on the 30th day from her last period and that is called a Veset Beynonit.<ref> | # A woman who doesn't have a fixed Veset (established with 3 times), which is very common, has to observe a veset on the 30th day from her last period and that is called a Veset Beynonit.<ref> | ||
* Rashi Niddah 15a s.v. Bitoch explains that a woman is concerned about a 30 day veset since by default that's when a woman sees her period. The Ramban (Chiddushim 15a s.v. vehu) supports this opinion from the Yerushalmi Niddah 2:4. The Rashba ([http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8922&st=&pgnum=367 Torat Habayit 15a]) based on Rashi writes that any woman who doesn't have a fixed veset needs to be concerned about the Onah Beynonit. The Ran Shevuot 4b-5a s.v. garsinan understood Rashi that there's an Onah Beynonit even if a woman has a fixed veset but argues that the concern of Onah Beynonit should only exist if she doesn't have a fixed veset. The idea of an Onah Beynonit is codified by the Tur and Shulchan Aruch 189:1. | * Rashi Niddah 15a s.v. Bitoch explains that a woman is concerned about a 30 day veset since by default that's when a woman sees her period. The Ramban (Chiddushim 15a s.v. vehu) supports this opinion from the Yerushalmi Niddah 2:4. The Rashba ([http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8922&st=&pgnum=367 Torat Habayit 15a]) based on Rashi writes that any woman who doesn't have a fixed veset needs to be concerned about the Onah Beynonit. The Ran Shevuot 4b-5a s.v. garsinan understood Rashi that there's an Onah Beynonit even if a woman has a fixed veset but argues that the concern of Onah Beynonit should only exist if she doesn't have a fixed veset. The idea of an Onah Beynonit is codified by the Tur and Shulchan Aruch 189:1. | ||
* The Shach 189:30 quotes many rishonim who don't quote the concept of Onah Beynonit. Furthermore, he concludes the Onah Beynonit will almost always fall out at the same time as the veset hachodesh. Sidrei Tahara 189:12 offers a few cases where they don't align. The Chacham Tzvi 114 argues with the Shach and defends Shulchan Aruch. Pri Deah (Siftei Levi 189:30) writes that the majority of poskim do not hold like the Shach. </ref> | * The Shach 189:30 quotes many rishonim who don't quote the concept of Onah Beynonit. Furthermore, he concludes the Onah Beynonit will almost always fall out at the same time as the veset hachodesh. Sidrei Tahara 189:12 offers a few cases where they don't align. The Chacham Tzvi 114 argues with the Shach and defends Shulchan Aruch. Pri Deah (Siftei Levi 189:30) writes that the majority of poskim do not hold like the Shach. </ref> | ||
## Some poskim also count the 31st day as the Onah Beynonit, Sephardim aren't concerned for this opinion.<Ref>The Chavot Daat 189:12 doesn't accept the Shach's major premise but accepts another aspect of his approach which is that the Oneh Beynonit isn't on the 30th day as is the opinion of Shulchan Aruch but that it is the 31st day. Badei Hashulchan 189:8 writes that one should be strict for the Chavot Daat except in an extenuating circumstance. Rav Ovadia Yosef in Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 77 accepts Shulchan Aruch that the Onah Beynonit is the 30th day.</ref> | ## Some poskim also count the 31st day as the Onah Beynonit, Sephardim aren't concerned for this opinion.<Ref>The Chavot Daat 189:12 doesn't accept the Shach's major premise but accepts another aspect of his approach which is that the Oneh Beynonit isn't on the 30th day as is the opinion of Shulchan Aruch but that it is the 31st day. Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 155:3 adopts the opinion of the Chavot Daat to calculate the Onah Beynonit as the 31st day. Badei Hashulchan 189:8 writes that one should be strict for the Chavot Daat except in an extenuating circumstance. Rav Ovadia Yosef in Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 77 accepts Shulchan Aruch that the Onah Beynonit is the 30th day.</ref> | ||
# If a woman always sees past the 30th day some poskim believe that she doesn't need to worry about the Onah Beynonit, however, many poskim hold that she still needs to worry about her Onah Beynonit.<ref>The Taharat Yisrael 186:13 writes that once a woman always sees past the 30th day we can establish her as having a pattern of not seeing before then. If so, she doesn't need to be concerned about the Onah Beynonit on the 30th day. This idea is also found in the Trumat Hadeshen 247 and Shulchan Aruch YD 186:3. See also Ritva Niddah 15a s.v. amar rabbi shimon. Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe YD 2:72), Rav Ovadia Yosef (Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 150), and [http://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/868501/rabbi-mordechai-i-willig/niddah-shiur-51-negative-veset-onah-beynonit/ Rabbi Mordechai Willig (Niddah Shiur 51)] accept this leniency. However, many achronim disagree and write that this idea of the Trumat Hadeshen only applies to not having to do a bedika before tashmish but not for the topic of veset. This is the opinion of the Chelkat Yakov 2:74, Minchat Yitzchak 6:82, and Badei Hashulchan 186:25 and 189:4. </ref> | # If a woman always sees past the 30th day some poskim believe that she doesn't need to worry about the Onah Beynonit, however, many poskim hold that she still needs to worry about her Onah Beynonit.<ref>The Taharat Yisrael 186:13 writes that once a woman always sees past the 30th day we can establish her as having a pattern of not seeing before then. If so, she doesn't need to be concerned about the Onah Beynonit on the 30th day. This idea is also found in the Trumat Hadeshen 247 and Shulchan Aruch YD 186:3. See also Ritva Niddah 15a s.v. amar rabbi shimon. Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe YD 2:72), Rav Ovadia Yosef (Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 150), and [http://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/868501/rabbi-mordechai-i-willig/niddah-shiur-51-negative-veset-onah-beynonit/ Rabbi Mordechai Willig (Niddah Shiur 51)] accept this leniency. However, many achronim disagree and write that this idea of the Trumat Hadeshen only applies to not having to do a bedika before tashmish but not for the topic of veset. This is the opinion of the Chelkat Yakov 2:74, Minchat Yitzchak 6:82, and Badei Hashulchan 186:25 and 189:4. </ref> | ||
===Uncommon Vestot=== | |||
====Increasing or decreasing intervals==== | |||
# If a woman sees for a certain intervals that are increasing over time that establishes a veset. There is a dispute if three or four times is necessary to establish a veset. For example, if she sees after 30 days, then after 31, then after 32, the woman would have to consider herself as having a veset but also be strict as though she didn't have a veset.<ref>The Gemara Niddah 64a records a dispute between Rav and Shmuel regarding an increasing veset of days during the month. Rav holds that it is established with three times and Shmuel holds it is established with four times since you need four times in order to establish three increases. Tosfot s.v. itmar extends this idea to increasing intervals. The opinion of Tosfot is codified by Tur and Shulchan Aruch YD 189:5. The Shach 189:6 explains that to establish a veset of increasing intervals for Rav it would take seeing four times which is equal to three intervals and according to Shmuel seeing five times which is equal to four intervals. Taz 189:6 agrees. Shulchan ruch 189:7 rules that we're strict for both the opinion of Rav and Shmuel.</ref> | |||
# Increasing intervals can be established whether they increase by one day at a time or multiple days as long as it is consistent. <ref>Rashba (Mishmeret Habayit 11b), Maggid Misna (Isurei Biyah 8:6), Shulchan Aruch 189:5, Shach 189:11</ref> | |||
# A decreasing veset is established just like an increasing veset.<ref> Shach 189:9 and Shach 189:68. See Tosfot Niddah 9b s.v. pichta. Sidrei Tahara 189:3 supports the Shach from the Raavad 3:6. The Peleti 189:6 accepts the Raavad's opinion but wonders how it is rationale since eventually the veset should run to the point that she won't see anymore and isn't a natural progression.</ref> | |||
==When is the veset?== | ==When is the veset?== | ||
# Most poskim hold that all calculations are based on viewing the day from sunrise to sunset and the night from sunset to sunrise.<ref>Sidrei Tahara 184:4, Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 59-60</ref> | # Most poskim hold that all calculations are based on viewing the day from sunrise to sunset and the night from sunset to sunrise.<ref>Sidrei Tahara 184:4, Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 59-60</ref> | ||
