Davening with a Minyan: Difference between revisions
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* Can you join people in two rooms to make a minyan? The Gemara Eruvin 92b indicates that if there’s a majority of the minyan in a large room and the minority of the minyan in a room that is almost completely open to the large room they can join for a minyan. Barring those two conditions people in two rooms or two houses can’t join for a minyan. However, in terms of answering a dvar shebekedusha if there is a minyan in one place, those standing in another room can answer since there is a minyan in the place of the dvar shebekedusha. This is also the opinion of Tosfot Pesachim 85b s.v. vchen, Tosfot Harosh Sotah 38b s.v. umechitza, Tosfot Eruvin 92b s.v. tisha, Rashba Eruvin 92b s.v. eika, Ritva Eruvin 92b s.v. vhikshu, Ritva r"h 27b s.v. vha, and Ran r”h 27b s.v. mishna. Tosfot Sotah 38b s.v. mechitza seems to agree. | * Can you join people in two rooms to make a minyan? The Gemara Eruvin 92b indicates that if there’s a majority of the minyan in a large room and the minority of the minyan in a room that is almost completely open to the large room they can join for a minyan. Barring those two conditions people in two rooms or two houses can’t join for a minyan. However, in terms of answering a dvar shebekedusha if there is a minyan in one place, those standing in another room can answer since there is a minyan in the place of the dvar shebekedusha. This is also the opinion of Tosfot Pesachim 85b s.v. vchen, Tosfot Harosh Sotah 38b s.v. umechitza, Tosfot Eruvin 92b s.v. tisha, Rashba Eruvin 92b s.v. eika, Ritva Eruvin 92b s.v. vhikshu, Ritva r"h 27b s.v. vha, and Ran r”h 27b s.v. mishna. Tosfot Sotah 38b s.v. mechitza seems to agree. | ||
* The Ramban Pesachim 85b s.v. amar doesn’t distinguish between dvar shebekedusha and creating a minyan. In order for people to join together they need to be in the same room or a small room which is almost completely open to a large room. He adds one other case of a courtyard joining to a house independent of the size of the courtyard and the house. It would emerge from the Ramban that a person outside of the room of the minyan can’t even answer dvarim shebekedusha if he’s not where the minyan is. Ritva r”h 27b s.v. vha and Meiri Pesachim 85b quote this opinion and reject it. | * The Ramban Pesachim 85b s.v. amar doesn’t distinguish between dvar shebekedusha and creating a minyan. In order for people to join together they need to be in the same room or a small room which is almost completely open to a large room. He adds one other case of a courtyard joining to a house independent of the size of the courtyard and the house. It would emerge from the Ramban that a person outside of the room of the minyan can’t even answer dvarim shebekedusha if he’s not where the minyan is. Ritva r”h 27b s.v. vha and Meiri Pesachim 85b quote this opinion and reject it. | ||
* Rashba responsa 1:96 holds that you can join people on the elevated platform bimah with a fence in the middle of the shul with the rest of the shul because that bimah is meant to service the shul and the people on the bimah can see those in the shul and the other way around. Shulchan Aruch O.C. 55:19 quotes the Rashba’s first reason. Shulchan Aruch O.C. 55:14 seems to be premised on the Rashba’s second reason. | * Rashba responsa 1:96 holds that you can join people on the elevated platform bimah with a fence in the middle of the shul with the rest of the shul because that bimah is meant to service the shul and the people on the bimah can see those in the shul and the other way around. Shulchan Aruch O.C. 55:19 quotes the Rashba’s first reason. Shulchan Aruch O.C. 55:14 seems to be premised on the Rashba’s second reason. The Smak (Mitzah 282 cited by Bet Yosef 55:19) has another reason to allowing the shaliach tzibbur to join from the elevated bimah. He says that since the walls of the bimah do not extend up to the ceiling they're not considered a completely different area. Mishneh Halachot 11:64 relies on the Smak's reason alone. | ||
* Biur Halacha 195:1 s.v. shtey cites the Rashbash who thinks that you can't join two groups in two houses to create a minyan even for zimmun purposes even if they see each other. Ramban Pesachim 95b also suggests this. Pri Chadash to 55:13, Magen Avraham 55:12, and Shulchan Aruch Harav 55:16 accept the Rashba. Maamar Mordechai 55:14 argues that even Shulchan Aruch does not accept the Rashba. Salmat Chaim 51 thinks that we should not rely on the Rashba but someone who does shouldn’t be scorned. Mishna Brurah 55:48 quotes the Magen Avraham and those who accept the Rashba and concludes that some achronim disagree. Kaf Hachayim 55:75 quotes the dispute and writes that one should be strict.</ref> One should only rely on this opinion in an extenuating circumstance.<ref>Mishna Brurah 55:57</ref> Some say that even this opinion only allowed it between outside the shul and the shul itself but not the shul and the women's section.<ref>Aruch Hashulchan 55:20, Shevet Halevi 9:20:1. Aruch Hashulchan writes that although someone outside of shul can join with a minyan as long as he can see them but someone in the women's section can't join since that is a completely different room. See [https://www.hebrewbooks.org/media/%D7%AA%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%94_%D7%91%D7%A6%D7%99%D7%91%D7%95%D7%A8_%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%AA_%D7%9B%D7%94%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%91%D7%91%D7%99%D7%93%D7%95%D7%93.pdf Rabbi Tzvi Reisman's article on outdoor minyanim p. 5] as to how to explain the distinction of the Aruch Hashulchan. Shevet Halevi reasons that the Rashba was only lenient when the people see each other and also the area is secondary to the rest of the shul. However, those who are in the women's section, that section wasn't built to be a function of the main shul and therefore they can't combine.</ref> | * Biur Halacha 195:1 s.v. shtey cites the Rashbash who thinks that you can't join two groups in two houses to create a minyan even for zimmun purposes even if they see each other. Ramban Pesachim 95b also suggests this. Pri Chadash to 55:13, Magen Avraham 55:12, and Shulchan Aruch Harav 55:16 accept the Rashba. Maamar Mordechai 55:14 argues that even Shulchan Aruch does not accept the Rashba. Salmat Chaim 51 thinks that we should not rely on the Rashba but someone who does shouldn’t be scorned. Mishna Brurah 55:48 quotes the Magen Avraham and those who accept the Rashba and concludes that some achronim disagree. Kaf Hachayim 55:75 quotes the dispute and writes that one should be strict.</ref> One should only rely on this opinion in an extenuating circumstance.<ref>Mishna Brurah 55:57</ref> Some say that even this opinion only allowed it between outside the shul and the shul itself but not the shul and the women's section.<ref>Aruch Hashulchan 55:20, Shevet Halevi 9:20:1. Aruch Hashulchan writes that although someone outside of shul can join with a minyan as long as he can see them but someone in the women's section can't join since that is a completely different room. See [https://www.hebrewbooks.org/media/%D7%AA%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%94_%D7%91%D7%A6%D7%99%D7%91%D7%95%D7%A8_%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%AA_%D7%9B%D7%94%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9D_%D7%91%D7%91%D7%99%D7%93%D7%95%D7%93.pdf Rabbi Tzvi Reisman's article on outdoor minyanim p. 5] as to how to explain the distinction of the Aruch Hashulchan. Shevet Halevi reasons that the Rashba was only lenient when the people see each other and also the area is secondary to the rest of the shul. However, those who are in the women's section, that section wasn't built to be a function of the main shul and therefore they can't combine.</ref> | ||
