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Davening with a Minyan: Difference between revisions
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→Conditions to do Chazarat Hashatz
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===Davening with Four Who Prayed Already=== | ===Davening with Four Who Prayed Already=== | ||
# If there are less than ten who are obligated to pray Shemona Esrei as long as they can get majority of the minyan who has not yet prayed they are allowed to pray together to recite [[Dvarim Shebekedusha]]. However, there is a dispute whether that is considered as davening together with a congregation, ''tefillah btzibbur''. Some say that unless all ten are praying Shemona Esrei it is not tefillah btzibbur.<ref>Igrot Moshe OC 1:28-30 based on Chayei Adam 19:1 and other sources. He explains that in order to daven as a congregation everyone needs to be davening. Using a majority doesn't create a quorum, which is a reality created by ten davening together. Dvarim Shebekedusha has a requirement of ten Jews present and majority who are obligated can satisfy that requirement.</ref> Others hold that it is considered tefillah btzibbur.<ref>Yachava Daat 5:7, Chelkat Yakov 1:20:2, Betzel Chachma 4:135, and Minchat Yitzchak 9:6-7. The primary proofs are the Rambam Tefillah 8:4, Mishna Brurah 69:8, and Pesachim 64b. Minchat Yitzchak recommends being strict when possible.</ref> | # If there are less than ten who are obligated to pray Shemona Esrei as long as they can get majority of the minyan who has not yet prayed they are allowed to pray together to recite [[Dvarim Shebekedusha]]. However, there is a dispute whether that is considered as davening together with a congregation, ''tefillah btzibbur''. Some say that unless all ten are praying Shemona Esrei it is not tefillah btzibbur.<ref>Igrot Moshe OC 1:28-30 based on Chayei Adam 19:1 and other sources. He explains that in order to daven as a congregation everyone needs to be davening. Using a majority doesn't create a quorum, which is a reality created by ten davening together. Dvarim Shebekedusha has a requirement of ten Jews present and majority who are obligated can satisfy that requirement. Dirshu 69:8 quotes that the Brisker Rav (Teshuvot Vehanhagot 1:102) and Steipler (Orchot Rabbenu v. 1 p. 51) agreed with Rav Moshe.</ref> Others hold that it is considered tefillah btzibbur.<ref>Yachava Daat 5:7, Chelkat Yakov 1:20:2, Betzel Chachma 4:135, and Minchat Yitzchak 9:6-7. The primary proofs are the Rambam Tefillah 8:4, Mishna Brurah 69:8, and Pesachim 64b. Minchat Yitzchak recommends being strict when possible.</ref> | ||
===Davening in an Adjacent Room=== | ===Davening in an Adjacent Room=== | ||
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==Conditions to do Chazarat Hashatz== | ==Conditions to do Chazarat Hashatz== | ||
# If ten individuals davened separately and then joined together afterwards most poskim hold that they can not recite chazrat hashatz since they didn't daven together btzibbur.<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 69:1 holds that they can recite chazarat hashatz even if ten people davened separately and now joined together. However, the Mishna Brurah 69:1 follows the Radvaz and Magen Avraham 69:4 who argue that since they each davened separately there is no way for them to join together afterwards to create a tzibur that is obligated and able to recite chazarat hashatz. See Kaf Hachayim on Shulchan Arukh, Orach Chayim 69:7 who accepts Shulchan Aruch. Tzitz Eliezer 14:6 and Har Tzvi 1:51 accept the Mishna Brurah.</ref> | # If ten individuals davened separately and then joined together afterwards most poskim hold that they can not recite chazrat hashatz since they didn't daven together btzibbur.<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 69:1 holds that they can recite chazarat hashatz even if ten people davened separately and now joined together. However, the Mishna Brurah 69:1 follows the Radvaz and Magen Avraham 69:4 who argue that since they each davened separately there is no way for them to join together afterwards to create a tzibur that is obligated and able to recite chazarat hashatz. See Kaf Hachayim on Shulchan Arukh, Orach Chayim 69:7 who accepts Shulchan Aruch. Tzitz Eliezer 14:6 and Har Tzvi 1:51 accept the Mishna Brurah.</ref> | ||
# If nine people davening Shemona Esrei together and afterwards one person entered they can not recite chazarat hashatz.<ref>Tzitz Eliezer 14:6</ref> | # If nine people davening Shemona Esrei together and afterwards one person entered they can not recite chazarat hashatz.<ref>Tzitz Eliezer 14:6. This fits with the approach of Mishna Brurah 69:1 based on Radvaz.</ref> | ||
# If there were ten people in the room and six were davening and four were not they can nonetheless recite chazarat hashatz.<ref>Mishna Brurah 69:8 based on Magen Avraham</ref> | # If there were ten people in the room and six were davening and four were not, they can nonetheless recite chazarat hashatz.<ref>Mishna Brurah 69:8 based on Magen Avraham</ref> | ||
##Even if these six who davened Shemona Esrei started and finished at different times but all overlapped at some point they can recite chazarat hashatz.<ref>Piskei Teshuvot 69:1 citing Minchat Elazar 2:77 and Chelek Levi 45</ref> | ##Even if these six who davened Shemona Esrei started and finished at different times but all overlapped at some point they can recite chazarat hashatz.<ref>Piskei Teshuvot 69:1 citing Minchat Elazar 2:77 and Chelek Levi 45</ref> | ||
##Even if these four people who were not davening some of them left while the six were davening Shemona Esrei and returned or others returned they can still recite chazarat hashatz.<Ref>Piskei Teshuvot 69:1 citing Keren Ldovid 16</ref> | ##Even if these four people who were not davening some of them left while the six were davening Shemona Esrei and returned or others returned they can still recite chazarat hashatz.<Ref>Piskei Teshuvot 69:1 citing Keren Ldovid 16</ref> | ||
