Davening with a Minyan: Difference between revisions
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# Someone from Diaspora who is davening a weekday Shemona Esrei with an Israeli minyan on the second day of Yom Tov that is considered Tefillah Btzibur.<ref>Yom Tov Sheni Khilchato (9:6 cited by Dirshu 90:32) quoting Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and Rav Elyashiv</ref> In the opposite case with an Israeli in the Diaspora davening a weekday Shemona Esrei with the congregation davening a Yom Tov Shemona Esrei is a dispute if that is Tefillah Btzibur.<ref>Yom Tov Sheni Khilchato (ch. 3 fnt. 43-5, cited by Dirshu 90:32)</ref> | # Someone from Diaspora who is davening a weekday Shemona Esrei with an Israeli minyan on the second day of Yom Tov that is considered Tefillah Btzibur.<ref>Yom Tov Sheni Khilchato (9:6 cited by Dirshu 90:32) quoting Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and Rav Elyashiv</ref> In the opposite case with an Israeli in the Diaspora davening a weekday Shemona Esrei with the congregation davening a Yom Tov Shemona Esrei is a dispute if that is Tefillah Btzibur.<ref>Yom Tov Sheni Khilchato (ch. 3 fnt. 43-5, cited by Dirshu 90:32)</ref> | ||
===Starting after the Congregation Started=== | ===Starting after the Congregation Started=== | ||
# Some hold that even if the Tzibbur is in the middle of Shemona Esrei and one starts one's silent Shemona Esrei that is considered Tefillah Btzibbur.<ref>Igrot Moshe OC 3:4</ref> | # Some hold that even if the Tzibbur is in the middle of Shemona Esrei and one starts one's silent Shemona Esrei that is considered Tefillah Btzibbur.<ref>Igrot Moshe OC 3:4. Yalkut Yosef 90:9:17 quotes the dispute between Igrot Moshe and Pri Megadim 109:2.</ref> | ||
#If the congregation is still reciting the first bracha when one starts that it is considered tefillah btzibbur.<ref>Betzel Chachma 4:3</ref> | |||
#If the congregation already started and is in the middle of the shemona esrei if someone starts at that point some hold that it isn't considered tefillah btzibbur.<Ref>Pri Megadim E"A 109:2. Some ask why should a person who arrives late and the congregation already started shemona esrei shouldn't start his shemona esrei right then if he won't be able to finish before the congregation reaches kedusha or modim (Brachot 21). Isn't tefillah btzibbur greater than kedusha or modim? Pri Megadim E"A 109:2 answers that since the congregation already began he lost the oppurtunity for tefillah btzibbur either way. Pri Tevuah 68 (cited by Yabia Omer 2:7:4) holds that starting even during the chazarat hashatz immediately after modim is considered tefillah btzibbur and therefore waiting doesn't jepordize tefillah btzibbur. Amudei Esh 3:7 cited by Yabia Omer on the other hand holds like the Pri Megadim.</ref> | |||
#If someone starts when the congregation starts even if one doesn't finish until after they reach kedusha it is considered tefillah btzibbur.<ref>Mishna Halachot 13:12, Betzel Chachma 4:3. Mishna Halachot explains that tefillah btzibbur is judged by the beginning of one's shemona esrei and references Tosfot Brachot 7a s.v. ilmaleh.</ref> | |||
#If someone starts together with the shaliach tzibbur's recitation of chazarat hashatz many consider that tefillah btzibbur.<ref>Betzel Chachma 4:3, Yabia Omer 2:7:4 citing Eshel Avraham Butchach 52:1 and Kaf Hachaim 90:63, Yalkut Yosef 90:9:16</ref> | |||
===Davening with Four Who Prayed Already=== | ===Davening with Four Who Prayed Already=== | ||
# If there are less than ten who are obligated to pray Shemona Esrei as long as they can get majority of the minyan who has not yet prayed they are allowed to pray together to recite [[Dvarim Shebekedusha]]. However, there is a dispute whether that is considered as davening together with a congregation, ''tefillah btzibbur''. Some say that unless all ten are praying Shemona Esrei it is not tefillah btzibbur.<ref>Igrot Moshe OC 1:28-30 based on Chayei Adam 19:1 and other sources. He explains that in order to daven as a congregation everyone needs to be davening. Using a majority doesn't create a quorum, which is a reality created by ten davening together. Dvarim Shebekedusha has a requirement of ten Jews present and majority who are obligated can satisfy that requirement.</ref> Others hold that it is considered tefillah btzibbur.<ref>Yachava Daat 5:7, Chelkat Yakov 1:20:2, Betzel Chachma 4:135, and Minchat Yitzchak 9:6-7. The primary proofs are the Rambam Tefillah 8:4, Mishna Brurah 69:8, and Pesachim 64b. Minchat Yitzchak recommends being strict when possible.</ref> | # If there are less than ten who are obligated to pray Shemona Esrei as long as they can get majority of the minyan who has not yet prayed they are allowed to pray together to recite [[Dvarim Shebekedusha]]. However, there is a dispute whether that is considered as davening together with a congregation, ''tefillah btzibbur''. Some say that unless all ten are praying Shemona Esrei it is not tefillah btzibbur.<ref>Igrot Moshe OC 1:28-30 based on Chayei Adam 19:1 and other sources. He explains that in order to daven as a congregation everyone needs to be davening. Using a majority doesn't create a quorum, which is a reality created by ten davening together. Dvarim Shebekedusha has a requirement of ten Jews present and majority who are obligated can satisfy that requirement.</ref> Others hold that it is considered tefillah btzibbur.<ref>Yachava Daat 5:7, Chelkat Yakov 1:20:2, Betzel Chachma 4:135, and Minchat Yitzchak 9:6-7. The primary proofs are the Rambam Tefillah 8:4, Mishna Brurah 69:8, and Pesachim 64b. Minchat Yitzchak recommends being strict when possible.</ref> | ||
