Veset

From Halachipedia

After the woman went to the mikveh and has not yet seen any blood there is time when she is expecting her next period during which she is forbidden to her husband.

Types of Vestot

  1. If a woman sees her period after an interval of a certain number of days that is called a veset haflagah. For example, if she sees every 28 days that is a veset.[1]
  2. If a woman sees her period on a certain day on the Hebrew calendar that is called a veset hachodesh.[2]
    1. A woman who usually sees on a day of the week every certain number of works that creates a veset. For example, if she saw on Sunday and then 29 days later on a Sunday she needs to be concerned about the Sunday after four weeks later. That weeks a veset with three times and is a veset sheino kavuah with one time. [3] If a veset of the day of the week can be viewed as a veset of haflagah we look at it as a veset of haflagah.[4]
  3. A woman who doesn't have a fixed veset (established with 3 times), which is very common, has to observe a veset on the 30th day from her last period and that is called an Onah Beynonit.[5]
    1. Some poskim also count the 31st day as the Onah Beynonit, Sephardim aren't concerned for this opinion.[6]
    2. If a woman always sees past the 30th day some poskim believe that she doesn't need to worry about the Onah Beynonit, however, many poskim hold that she still needs to worry about her Onah Beynonit.[7]

Uncommon Vestot

Increasing or decreasing intervals

  1. If a woman sees for a certain intervals that are increasing over time that establishes a veset. There is a dispute if three or four times is necessary to establish a veset. For example, if she sees after 30 days, then after 31, then after 32, the woman would have to consider herself as having a veset but also be strict as though she didn't have a veset.[8]
  2. Increasing intervals can be established whether they increase by one day at a time or multiple days as long as it is consistent. [9] However, a intervals that progressively increase (e.g. 30, 31, 33, 36) isn't considered a halachic pattern to create a veset.[10]
  3. A decreasing veset is established just like an increasing veset.[11]

Veset for Hours

  1. If a woman has a veset for starting to see during a certain hour of the day then she is concerned about her regular non-kavuah vestot only for that hour.[12]

Differences between veset kavuah and a non-kavuah veset

  1. A veset kavuah is uprooted only after missing it three times, while a non-kavuah veset is uprooted with one time.[13]
  2. A kavuah veset requires a bedika during the veset and if she didn’t do one then she is forbidden to her husband until she does a bedika. However, a veset that’s not established after the day passes doesn’t require a bedika.[14]
  3. The veset hachodesh is established from month to month irrelevant of whether the month is 29 or 30 days.[15]
  4. If a woman sees a pattern of three days in a row and then repeats that same cycle twice more she established a veset.[16]

How to uproot a veset

  1. To uproot a veset kavuah the following conditions need to be met:
    1. The day of the veset needs to pass three times without seeing blood and she needs to do a bedika during the veset. [17]
    2. A veset kavuah is only uprooted if it is replaced with another veset. If she missed 3 times on different days and doesn't establish a veset, she doesn't need to be concerned about veset but if she sees on it once it returns.[18]
    3. Most poskim hold that if a woman saw blood before her veset and continued to see blood during her veset that blood doesn't further establish the veset but also doesn't uproot it. [19]
  2. A veset sheino kavuah is uprooted if she missed seeing blood and even if she forgot and didn't do a bedika.[20]
  3. For a veset hachodesh, seeing an earlier day during the month doesn't uproot the veset unless that day comes and passes without seeing blood.[21]
  4. For a veset haflagah, there is a dispute whether the shorter interval uproots a longer interval. Many poskim hold it doesn't uproot it.[22]
  5. If a woman saw prior to her veset, the next haflagah interval is counted from that time she just saw and she doesn't need to worry about the veset as it fell out from the last interval. For example, if a woman saw on the 1st and 20th of Nissan, her haflagah (20 days) lands on the 9th of Iyar. But if she sees earlier on the 1st of Iyar she doesn't have to be to concerned about the 9th of Iyar since the new haflagah is calculated from the last period. Therefore, her veset haflagah would be the 12th of Iyar and the 20th of Iyar. [23]
  6. If a woman saw before the 30th day she doesn't need to worry about the original 30th day and just recalculates the Onah Beynonit from the last time she saw.[24] For example, if a woman saw on the 18th day after her last period she doesn't need to be concerned about the Onah Beynonit from her last interval which would land 12 days after her period (which could be her tevilah night). Rather the Onah Beynonit is reset and she is concerned for the 30th day from her last period.

When is the veset?

  1. Most poskim hold that all calculations are based on viewing the day from sunrise to sunset and the night from sunset to sunrise.[25]

How long is a veset?

  1. Some Ashkenazic poskim consider a veset 24 hours, the time period when she expects to see blood and also the time period beforehand.[26] Others are lenient.[27]
  2. If a woman sees for several days we still calculate the veset based on the initial seeing of blood. [28]

What is forbidden during the veset?

  1. Most poskim hold that really the only activity that is forbidden during a veset is for the couple to be together. However, one who is stringent to avoid any affectionate touch, hugging and kissing will be blessed.[29] Some poskim hold that hugging and kissing are forbidden.[30]
  2. It is praiseworthy for the couple not to sleep in the same bed during the veset. [31]
  3. However, the other harchakot which are forbidden when a woman is a niddah are not forbidden during the veset.[32]

Veset for a Pregnant or Nursing Woman

  1. Some poskim held that if a woman knows she's pregnant because of a pregnancy test she doesn't need to be concerned for veset as long as she doesn't have a period, most poskim hold that a pregnant woman is concerned for her veset until after 90 days of pregnancy. Either way, if she's not actually seeing blood then she only needs to be concerned for her vestot for the first time unless she had an established veset. All agree that if she's actually seeing blood then she does need to be concerned for her veset as though it was a non-established veset.[33]
  2. A post-partum woman whether she is nursing or not needs to be concerned about vestot if she does see her period. That is, she needs to be concerned about a non-established veset, establishing a veset, and about a previous veset.[34]
  3. The blood accompanying childbirth has no relevant to veset, neither to establish a onah beynonit or a beginning of the interval to set when she'll bleed next. Until she menstruates once after childbirth there is no concern of veset.[35]

24 Months after Childbirth

  1. If a woman began menstruating before 24 months, according to many poskim her old veset applies and she can create a new established veset or a non-established veset. During that time she can't uproot an old veset by seeing on other times or by establishing a new established veset. [36]
  2. However, if a woman didn't begin menstruating before 24 months after childbirth her old vestot return at that time.[37] If she had a veset haflagah it only begins to apply after she sees once.[38] If she had a veset hachodesh according to some it applies immediately after 24 months and according to others it applies only if she saw once.[39] A woman who didn't have a veset is concerned about a onah beynonit only once she sees once.[40] A non-established veset according to some poskim it doesn't return.[41]

Sources

  1. ↑ Gemara Niddah 63b, Tur and Shulchan YD 184:1
  2. ↑ The Gemara Niddah 39b and 64a both use cases of veset that are tied to the monthly calendar. Tosfot 64a s.v. itmar explains that a veset is established by the Jewish calendar even if some months are 29 days and others are 30. This is also the opinion of the Raavad (Baalei Hanefesh p. 48 cited by Rashba), Rashba (Taharat Habayit 9a and Mishmeret Habayit 9a), Rambam (Isurei Biyah 8:6), Maggid Mishna (Isurei Biyah 8:6), Tur and Shulchan Aruch 189:6. Even though the Ramban (Chiddushim 64a) questions this approach in his Hilchot Niddah 5:12 he accepted it.
  3. ↑ Niddah 11a, Rashba (Torat Habayit 9a), Shulchan Aruch YD 189:6
  4. ↑ Chavot Daat 189:4 writes that if the veset of the day of the week is established as a haflagah of the same day of the week then it is a veset of haflagah. For example, if a woman saw on 4 Sundays 3 weeks apart then she has a veset of haflagah of 22 days. However, if she only saw 3 times like that then she only has a veset for every third Sunday. Igrot Moshe YD 1:122 isn't certain that we follow the Chavot Daat where the veset of the day of the week is consistent but is sure that we follow a haflagah if the day of the week is increasing.
  5. ↑
    • Rashi Niddah 15a s.v. Bitoch explains that a woman is concerned about a 30 day veset since by default that's when a woman sees her period. The Ramban (Chiddushim 15a s.v. vehu) supports this opinion from the Yerushalmi Niddah 2:4. The Rashba (Torat Habayit 15a) based on Rashi writes that any woman who doesn't have a fixed veset needs to be concerned about the Onah Beynonit. The Ran Shevuot 4b-5a s.v. garsinan understood Rashi that there's an Onah Beynonit even if a woman has a fixed veset but argues that the concern of Onah Beynonit should only exist if she doesn't have a fixed veset. The idea of an Onah Beynonit is codified by the Tur and Shulchan Aruch 189:1.
    • The Shach 189:30 quotes many rishonim who don't quote the concept of Onah Beynonit. Furthermore, he concludes the Onah Beynonit will almost always fall out at the same time as the veset hachodesh. Sidrei Tahara 189:12 offers a few cases where they don't align. The Chacham Tzvi 114 argues with the Shach and defends Shulchan Aruch. Pri Deah (Siftei Levi 189:30) writes that the majority of poskim do not hold like the Shach.
  6. ↑ The Chavot Daat 189:12 doesn't accept the Shach's major premise but accepts another aspect of his approach which is that the Oneh Beynonit isn't on the 30th day as is the opinion of Shulchan Aruch but that it is the 31st day. Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 155:3 adopts the opinion of the Chavot Daat to calculate the Onah Beynonit as the 31st day. Badei Hashulchan 189:8 writes that one should be strict for the Chavot Daat except in an extenuating circumstance. Rav Ovadia Yosef in Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 77 accepts Shulchan Aruch that the Onah Beynonit is the 30th day.
  7. ↑ The Taharat Yisrael 186:13 writes that once a woman always sees past the 30th day we can establish her as having a pattern of not seeing before then. If so, she doesn't need to be concerned about the Onah Beynonit on the 30th day. This idea is also found in the Trumat Hadeshen 247 and Shulchan Aruch YD 186:3. See also Ritva Niddah 15a s.v. amar rabbi shimon. Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe YD 2:72), Rav Ovadia Yosef (Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 150), and Rabbi Mordechai Willig (Niddah Shiur 51) accept this leniency. However, many achronim disagree and write that this idea of the Trumat Hadeshen only applies to not having to do a bedika before tashmish but not for the topic of veset. This is the opinion of the Chelkat Yakov 2:74, Minchat Yitzchak 6:82, and Badei Hashulchan 186:25 and 189:4.
  8. ↑ The Gemara Niddah 64a records a dispute between Rav and Shmuel regarding an increasing veset of days during the month. Rav holds that it is established with three times and Shmuel holds it is established with four times since you need four times in order to establish three increases. Tosfot s.v. itmar extends this idea to increasing intervals. The opinion of Tosfot is codified by Tur and Shulchan Aruch YD 189:5. The Shach 189:6 explains that to establish a veset of increasing intervals for Rav it would take seeing four times which is equal to three intervals and according to Shmuel seeing five times which is equal to four intervals. Taz 189:6 agrees. Shulchan ruch 189:7 rules that we're strict for both the opinion of Rav and Shmuel.
  9. ↑ Rashba (Mishmeret Habayit 11b), Maggid Misna (Isurei Biyah 8:6), Shulchan Aruch 189:5, Shach 189:11
  10. ↑ Shach 189:12
  11. ↑ Shach 189:9 and Shach 189:68. See Tosfot Niddah 9b s.v. pichta. Sidrei Tahara 189:3 supports the Shach from the Raavad 3:6. The Peleti 189:6 accepts the Raavad's opinion but wonders how it is rationale since eventually the veset should run to the point that she won't see anymore and isn't a natural progression.
  12. ↑ The Raavad (Baalei Hanefesh p. 32) writes that if a woman has a veset only for a specific hour during the day and not for days that can establish a veset for that hour. Shulchan Aruch 189:3 codifies the opinion of the Raavad. Chavot Daat 189:4 explains that if she doesn’t have a veset for days and does have an established hour, she only needs to keep her non-kavuah vestot during that hour that she has a veset for.
  13. ↑ Rav Papa in Niddah 64a says that a non-kavuah veset is established and removed with one time. However, a kavuah veset the Mishna 63b says takes 3 times to establish and remove. Tur and Shulchan Aruch 189:2 codify this.
  14. ↑ Rashba (Torat Habayit 15b), Shulchan Aruch 189:4. Even though Shulchan Aruch 184:9 rules like the Rambam, the Shulchan Aruch retracted and held like the Rashba in 189:4.
  15. ↑ Tosfot Niddah 64a s.v. itmar, Raavad p. 48, Rashba (Torat Habayit 9a), Tur and Shulchan Aruch 189:6
  16. ↑ Rabbenu Chananel understood the gemara Niddah 64a that you need to see 9 times in a pattern to establish a changing veset such as the 15th of one month, then the 16th of the next month, and then the 17th of the third month, the cycle continues for another 6 months starting the fourth and seventh time again on the 15th. Tosfot disagrees with Rabbenu Chananel in the gemara. Rashba (Torat Habyait 14b) writes that even though we disagree with the Rabbenu Chananel’s understanding we still hold that his case is considered a veset. Tur and Shulchan Aruch YD 189:8 agree.
  17. ↑ Raavad (Shaar Tikkun Havestot 2 p. 47), Ramban (Hilchot Niddah 5:19), Chavot Daat 189:10, The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 325
  18. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 189:15. The Raavad (Shaar Tikkun Vestot p. 34) writes that a veset is only completely uprooted if it is replaced by another veset. If she missed 3 times practically she isn't concerned for the veset but unless she establishes a new veset if she sees on the old veset once, that veset returns. This is view of the Tur and Bet Yosef 189:15 and The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 324. The Sidrei Tahara 189:19 explains that the Ramban (Hilchot Niddah 6:5) holds that if she saw on 3 different days then the veset is uprooted completely but nonetheless accepts the ruling of Shulchan Aruch. Simla 189:33 disagrees with Shulchan Aruch based on the Ramban and Rashi. Rav Mordechai Willig (Am Mordechai on Shulchan Aruch p. 127) agrees and suggests that even the Raavad doesn't hold like the Tur and Shulchan Aruch understood him. See there.
  19. ↑ Shaarei Tohar 4:21 writes that a continuation of a flow also uproots a veset just like it isn’t sufficient to establish a veset. Rabbi Willig (Am Mordechai on Shulchan Aruch p. 128) prefers this opinion. However, Igrot Moshe YD 1:122 assumes that if a woman continues to see during her veset that doesn’t establish but also doesn’t uproot the veset. Minchat Yitzchak 8:74 agrees based on the Chavot Daat 189:7. Shevet Halevi 5:107:13 is also strict.
  20. ↑ Ramban (Hilchot Niddah 5:19), The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 325
  21. ↑ Bet Yosef 189:13(2) s.v. v'im tomar, Shach 189:31
  22. ↑ Bet Yosef 189:13 and Darkei Moshe 189:1 imply that a shorter period doesn't uproot a longer interval. This is also the opinion of the Taz 189:18 and Beit Meir 189:13. Shach 189:31 holds that it does. Badei Hashulchan (Tziyunim 132) writes that we don’t hold like the Shach that a shorter interval uproots a longer one. Shevet Halevi 2:81 and 5:107 doesn't hold like the Shach in most cases.
  23. ↑ Ramban (Hilchot Niddah 5:22) writes that if a woman sees on the 1st and 20th of Nissan and didn't see on the 1st of Iyar she's concerned about the 9th of Iyar because of the haflagah of 20 days. Bet Yosef 189:13 infers that if she did see on the 1st of Iyar she wouldn't be concerned about the 9th of Iyar. The Darkei Moshe 189:1 argues that the Ramban was giving a unique case but the halacha is that she should be concerned for the 9th of Iyar whether or not she saw on the 1st of Iyar. The Rama 189:13 rules according to his opinion in the Darkei Moshe. While the Taz 189:19 defends the position of the Rama, the Bach 189:16 and Shach 189:31 strongly disagree because once she sees for a shorter interval of 12 days she uprooted her interval of 20 days. Even if one disagrees with the Shach, another reason to disagree with the Taz is that we restart haflagah count from the last time she saw (Bach 16, Sidrei Tahara 14, Beit Meir 189:13). Badei HaShulchan 189:106 is lenient but adds that one who is strict for the Rama 189:13 and Taz 189:19 should be blessed.
  24. ↑ Bach 189:16, Chavot Daat 189:13, Rabbi Akiva Eiger 189:3. This is unlike the position of the Taz 189:17.
  25. ↑ Sidrei Tahara 184:4, Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 59-60
  26. ↑ Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe 3:48) is strict for the Or Zaruah.
  27. ↑ Rabbi Mordechai Willig (Niddah shiur 45 min 35-41) holds that we can be lenient against the Or Zaruah since that is the opinion of the Shulchan Aruch, Rama, Taz, and Chavot Daat. Also, even the Shach who is concerned for the Or Zaruah holds that it only applies if she has a fixed veset but since most woman don't have that we can be lenient. Taharat Habayit v. 1 pp. 55-58 holds that Sephardim should follow Shulchan Aruch and don't need to follow the Or Zaruah unlike the Ben Ish Chai (Tzav no. 1).
  28. ↑
    • The Raavad (Baalei Hanefesh cited by Bet Yosef 184:5) writes that if a woman always sees blood at night and a bit into the day her veset is established as that night as well as the time that it would extend into the day. The Bet Yosef 184:5 writes that there three opinions about this case whether only the night is established, or both the night and the day, or the night and the hour in the day during which she always sees. Shulchan Aruch 184:5 follows the Raavad.
    • The Raavad (Baalei Hanefesh cited by Bet Yosef 184:6) writes that if a women sees for a few days we look at the entirety of the time she would see as a veset. However, the Rosh (Niddah 9:3) argues that only the time when she initially sees is established as a veset. Shulchan Aruch 184:6 follows the Rosh. The Derisha 184:5 clarifies that the difference between the cases is if she sees for a short period of time it is considered part of the original veset, however, if she sees for several days they aren't included in the original veset and the veset is exclusively established by the original seeing. The Taz 184:9 agrees with the Derisha. Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 68 follows Shulchan Aruch.
    • The Chavot Daat 184:7 writes that if she stopped seeing for some time and then continues to see then the next day is also considered for the veset. The Pardes Rimonim (184 Shach 16) and Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 69 disagree.
  29. ↑ Shulchan Aruch YD 184:2 writes that only being together is forbidden. Rama 184:10 agrees. See Chatom Sofer YD 2:170 who provides a rationale for the Shulchan Aruch.
  30. ↑ Trumat Hadeshen 250. Badei Hashulchan 189:14 writes that the primary halacha is that we follow the Shulchan Aruch, howeve,r someone who is strict will be blessed.
  31. ↑ Badei Hashulchan 184:14, Taharat Habayit v. 1, p. 67. Taharat Habayit forbids sleeping together even if they do not engage in tashmish, which is forbidden, as she might see blood while she's sleeping.
  32. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 184:2, Badei Hashulchan 184:14
  33. ↑
    • The gemara 9a states that a pregnant woman who didn't do a bedika on her veset is still tahor. The Rosh (Niddah 1:4) learns from here that a pregnant woman doesn't need to be concerned for her veset or do a bedika. The Tur 184:7 and Rabbenu Yerucham (cited by Bet Yosef 184:7) apply this equally to a nursing woman based on the gemara Niddah 11a.
    • For this halacha the gemara Niddah 8b says that vestot are only pushed aside after 90 days of pregnancy. The Rashba (Torat Habayit 12b) cites a dispute between the Raavad and Baal Hameor if vestot are only pushed aside if she doesn't see blood for 90 days after 90 days of pregnancy. The Rashba sides with the opinion of the Raavad that immediately after 90 days of pregnancy she doesn't have to be concerned about a veset. The Shulchan Aruch 189:33 agrees.
    • The Rashba (Torat Habayit 12a) writes that if a woman sees during her pregnancy we look at it as an anomaly and it doesn't even become a non-established veset. The Raavad disagrees and considers periods during pregnancy to create a non-established veset. The Rashba concludes that one should be strict for the Raavad. Shulchan Aruch 189:33 follows the Raavad and rules that a pregnant woman after 90 days of pregnancy create an established veset but if she sees she does have to be concerned for a non-established veset. Additionally, Shulchan Aruch 189:34 rules that she doesn't need to be concerned about her previous veset during pregnancy after 90 days. The Sidrei Tahara 189:36 clarifies that she doesn't need to be concerned Onah Beynonit after 90 days of pregnancy. The Pri Deah (Turi Kesef 189:50), however, cites and supports the Maharam Padua who holds that Onah Beynonit exists during pregnancy.
    • Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe YD 3:52) writes that nowadays since the overwhelming majority of pregnant women don't miss their period they do not have to be concerned for a veset after they took a pregnancy test and know they are pregnant. In a later response, Igrot Moshe YD 4:17(1) concludes that one should be strict. See the editor's addition to Igrot Moshe there (which was not written by Rav Moshe Feinstein). Shevet Halevi 3:114 and Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 80 disagree with Rav Moshe's leniency. The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 371 writes that most poskim don't accept Rav Moshe's leniency.
    • Rav Mordechai Willig (Niddah Shiur 61, min 39-41) is machmir to keep vestot during pregnancy and to be poresh and do bedika on Onah Beynonit. If she doesn't see during pregnancy these vestot will only exist one time if she doesn't have an established veset.
  34. ↑ The gemara Niddah 9a treats a post-partum woman as someone who isn't supposed to see her period for 24 months. Based on the Rashba (Torat Habayit 13a) this has relevance to not being concerned about veset. The Shulchan Aruch 189:33 rules that a woman who gave birth doesn't establish a veset for 24 months whether or not she is actually nursing, but should be concerned for a non-established veset. The Shulchan Aruch 189:34 also rules that a woman who gave birth for 24 month doesn't need to be concerned for her old veset. Nonetheless, Igrot Moshe YD 3:52 rules that since nowadays women do see their period within 24 months of birth we have to be concerned for a veset during that time. This is also the opinion of Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 85. Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 376 writes that many poskim agree.
  35. ↑ The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 375. Badei Hashulchan 189:33 s.v. shetireh writes that blood of childbirth is certainly different than niddah blood, however, he is unsure when the consider the blood accompanying the childbirth to have ended.
  36. ↑ The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 376-7 clarifies that considering the period of 24 months after childbirth to be a time when she might see her period is only a chumra but it can't be used to uproot an old veset. However, if she did menstruate before 24 months then after 24 months there is no new concern immediately upon the conclusion of 24 months.
  37. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 189:34
  38. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 189:34
  39. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 189:34 like the opinion of the Rashba holds that a veset hachodesh returns immediately. However, the Shach 189:75 quotes the Raavad and Ramban who argue that even veset hachodesh doesn't return without first seeing once. The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 377 quotes both opinions.
  40. ↑ The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 378 based on Shulchan Aruch 189:34 as onah beynonit is like haflagah that it can't be established with less than 2 periods.
  41. ↑ Pitchei Teshuva 189:32 quotes the Nodeh Beyehuda 2:86 who says that the veset sheino kavuah doesn’t return. However, the Lechem Vsimla 189:57 argues. The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 378 is lenient, while the Badei Hashulchan 189:349 is strict.
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