Veset

From Halachipedia

After the woman went to the mikveh and has not yet seen any blood there is time when she is expecting her next period during which she is forbidden to her husband. That day when she is considered to be expecting her period is called a veset. If it is established as a pattern (veset kavuah) it is treated more seriously, while if that day isn't established in some pattern there are a few days on which she is considered to be anticipating her period (veset sheino kavuah). Today most women's period do not fall into any pattern.

A Woman without an Established Veset Pattern

  1. Most woman today don't see their period in a regular pattern. If that is the case, there are 3 concerns of veset that apply to such a woman: Onah Beynonit (regular period), Chodesh (monthly pattern), and Haflagah (interval pattern). Each of these apply from the last time she saw her period.

Onah Beynonit

  1. A woman who doesn't have a fixed veset (established with 3 times), which is very common, has to observe a veset on the 30th day from her last period and that is called an Onah Beynonit.[1]
    1. Some poskim also count the 31st day as the Onah Beynonit, Sephardim aren't concerned for this opinion.[2]
    2. If a woman always sees past the 30th day some poskim believe that she doesn't need to worry about the Onah Beynonit, however, many poskim hold that she still needs to worry about her Onah Beynonit.[3]

Veset Hachodesh (monthly pattern)

  1. If a woman doesn't have an established veset, she should mark the day of the month on the Hebrew calendar when she last saw and her veset will be on the same day of the month the next month.[4] Whether the veset falls out by night or by the day depends on the last time she saw. If it was by day the veset is by day and if it was by night then the veset is by night.[5]
  2. The veset hachodesh is established from month to month irrelevant of whether the month is 29 or 30 days.[6]
  3. If a woman saw on the 30th day of the month the next month which usually only has 29 days in it, according to some she has a non-established veset on the 29th day of the month, according to others she has a non-established veset on the 1st of the subsequent month, and some say she doesn't have to be concerned at all. [This is based on the usual arrangement of the calendar to have months of alternating lengths of 29 and 30.][7]

Veset Haflagah (interval pattern)

  1. If a woman doesn't have an established veset, she should calculate the interval between the last time she saw her period and two times ago.[8] Counting the same number of days from the last period establishes the day of the veset. Whether the veset falls out by night or by the day depends on the last time she saw. If it was by day the veset is by day and if it was by night then the veset is by night.[9] However, a minority opinion holds that unless both the first and second period which create the haflagah interval are both in the day or both by night there is concern of a veset even as a veset sheino kavuah.[10]

Uncommon Vestot

  1. The woman who sees in increasing intervals or on consecutive days of the month (see below for explanation of these patterns) is only concerned if she saw that 3 times. However, until it is established as a veset a woman who doesn't have a veset doesn't need to be concerned about them.[11]

A Woman with an Established Veset Pattern

Veset Hachodesh (monthly pattern)

  1. If a woman sees her period on a certain day on the Hebrew calendar that is called a veset hachodesh.[12]
  2. A corollary of the veset of the month is the veset of the day of the week. A woman who usually sees on a day of the week every certain number of works that creates a veset. For example, if she saw on Sunday and then 29 days later on a Sunday she needs to be concerned about the Sunday after four weeks later. That weeks a veset with three times and is a veset sheino kavuah with one time. [13] If a veset of the day of the week can be viewed as a veset of haflagah we look at it as a veset of haflagah.[14]

Veset Haflagah (interval pattern)

  1. If a woman sees her period after an interval of a certain number of days that is called a veset haflagah. For example, if she sees every 28 days that is a veset.[15]
  2. The veset is established by seeing 4 periods in between which there are 3 intervals.[16]
  3. A haflagah veset is only established if all 4 periods were at night or all were during the day.[17]

Uncommon Vestot

Physical Activity Causing a Period

  1. A woman who jumps and sees her period each certain number of days after 3 times she establishes a veset for seeing on that day of the interval only when she jumps.[18] The period is established after 3 times and before then she is concerned for her regular veset of interval and day of the month.[19] The same can be established for a day of the month and jumping.[20]
  2. If she has an established veset of a combination of jumping and an interval or days of the month she is permitted until the time in the day when she jumps.[21]

Indicators of a Period

  1. A veset can be created based on physical signs of the body such as streching, yawning, burping, flatulating, sneezing, having an ache in one's stomach area, or fever.[22]

Increasing Days of the Month

  1. A woman doesn't need to be concerned of a increasing veset before it is established.[23]
  2. If a woman sees on consecutive days of the month in consecutive months she can establish a veset. Some hold that this is established with 3 periods and others hold it is established with 4 periods. We're strict for both opinions. For example, if she sees in one month on the 15th, the next month on the 16th, the next month on the 17th, and the last month on the 18th according to everyone she establishes a veset that she'll continue to see on consecutive days of the month. However, if she only saw on the 15th through the 18th then she considers it as though she this is an established veset but she is also concerned as though she doesn't have a veset.[24]
  3. Consistently seeing on an earlier day of the month establishes a veset just like seeing consecutively later days.[25]
  4. Consistently seeing on days of the month 2 days beyond the last month also establishes a veset. [26]
  5. If a woman has a cyclical pattern of seeing on the 15th of the month, next month on the 16th, next on the 17th, then the next month jumps back to the 15th, 16th, 17th, and again 15th, 16th, and 17th, she has established a veset for that pattern.[27]
  6. In fact, if a woman has a alternating pattern switching between the 15th of the month and the 16th, by seeing this switch 3 times, which is altogether 6 periods, she establishes a veset.[28]

Increasing or decreasing intervals

  1. If a woman sees for a certain intervals that are increasing over time that establishes a veset. There is a dispute if three or four times is necessary to establish a veset. For example, if she sees after 30 days, then after 31, then after 32, the woman would have to consider herself as having a veset but also be strict as though she didn't have a veset.[29]
  2. Increasing intervals can be established whether they increase by one day at a time or multiple days as long as it is consistent. [30] However, a intervals that progressively increase (e.g. 30, 31, 33, 36) isn't considered a halachic pattern to create a veset.[31]
  3. A decreasing veset is established just like an increasing veset.[32]

Veset for Hours

  1. If a woman establishes three times that she always starts seeing her period a certain hour of the day but doesn't establish any day for her veset (either by intervals or by of the month), then she is concerned about her regular non-kavuah vestot only for that hour.[33]

Bedika during Veset

  1. A kavuah veset requires a bedika during the veset and if she didn’t do one then she is forbidden to her husband until she does a bedika. However, a veset that’s not established after the day passes doesn’t require a bedika.[34]
  2. How many times does she have to do a bedika? Many poskim that ideally she should do a bedika in the beginning and the end of the veset.[35]
  3. Some poskim hold that no bedika is necessary during a non-established veset (besides the Onah Beynonit which is treated like an established veset).[36] Other poskim hold that initially a woman should do a bedika.[37]

How to Uproot a Veset

  1. A veset kavuah is uprooted only after missing it three times, while a non-kavuah veset is uprooted with one time.[38]

A Non-established Veset

  1. A non-established veset (veset sheino kavuah) is uprooted if she missed seeing blood once[39] and even if she forgot and didn't do a bedika.[40]

An Established Veset

  1. To uproot a veset kavuah the following conditions need to be met:
    1. The day of the veset needs to pass three times without seeing blood and she needs to do a bedika during the veset. [41]
    2. A veset kavuah is only uprooted if it is replaced with another veset. If she missed 3 times on different days and doesn't establish a veset, she doesn't need to be concerned about veset but if she sees on it once it returns.[42]

Seeing Earlier than the Veset

  1. Most poskim hold that if a woman saw blood before her veset and continued to see blood during her veset that blood doesn't further establish the veset but also doesn't uproot it. [43]

Veset Hachodesh

  1. For a veset hachodesh, seeing an earlier day during the month doesn't uproot the veset unless that day comes and passes without seeing blood.[44]

Veset Haflagah

  1. For a veset haflagah, there is a dispute whether the shorter interval uproots a longer interval. Many poskim hold it doesn't uproot it.[45]
  2. If a woman saw prior to her veset, the next haflagah interval is counted from that time she just saw and she doesn't need to worry about the veset as it fell out from the last interval. For example, if a woman saw on the 1st and 20th of Nissan, her haflagah (20 days) lands on the 9th of Iyar. But if she sees earlier on the 1st of Iyar she doesn't have to be to concerned about the 9th of Iyar since the new haflagah is calculated from the last period. Therefore, her veset haflagah would be the 12th of Iyar and the 20th of Iyar. [46]

Onah Beynonit

  1. If a woman saw before the 30th day she doesn't need to worry about the original 30th day and just recalculates the Onah Beynonit from the last time she saw.[47] For example, if a woman saw on the 18th day after her last period she doesn't need to be concerned about the Onah Beynonit from her last interval which would land 12 days after her period (which could be her tevilah night). Rather the Onah Beynonit is reset and she is concerned for the 30th day from her last period.

When is the veset?

  1. Most poskim hold that all calculations are based on viewing the day from sunrise to sunset and the night from sunset to sunrise.[48]

How Long is a Veset?

  1. Some Ashkenazic poskim consider a veset 24 hours, the time period when she expects to see blood and also the time period beforehand.[49] Others are lenient.[50]
  2. If a woman sees for several days we still calculate the veset based on the initial seeing of blood. [51]

What is Forbidden during the Veset?

  1. Most poskim hold that really the only activity that is forbidden during a veset is for the couple to be together. However, one who is stringent to avoid any affectionate touch, hugging and kissing will be blessed.[52] Some poskim hold that hugging and kissing are forbidden.[53]
  2. It is praiseworthy for the couple not to sleep in the same bed during the veset. [54]
  3. However, the other harchakot (not including hugging and kissing mentioned above) which are forbidden when a woman is a niddah are not forbidden during the veset.[55]
  4. If the veset period falls out on the tevilah night many poskim hold that the veset remains in place and she is forbidden to her husband.[56]

Veset for a Pregnant or Nursing Woman

  1. Some poskim held that if a woman knows she's pregnant because of a pregnancy test she doesn't need to be concerned for veset as long as she doesn't have a period, most poskim hold that a pregnant woman is concerned for her veset until after 90 days of pregnancy. Either way, according to Ashkenazim, if she's not actually seeing blood then she only needs to be concerned for her vestot for the first time unless she had an established veset. All agree that if she's actually seeing blood then she does need to be concerned for her veset as though it was a non-established veset.[57]
    1. According to Sephardim, if a woman doesn’t have a veset she has to be concerned for her veset hachodesh, veset haflagah and onah beynonit the first month. Afterwards she only has to be concerned for the onah beynonit for the next two months, which are day 60 and day 90. If a woman has a veset kavuah of haflagah she only has to be concerned for that the first month and isn’t concerned until she actually sees again. If a woman has a veset kavuah for the chodesh she is concerned for the first three months of pregnancy.[58]
  2. A post-partum woman whether she is nursing or not needs to be concerned about vestot if she does see her period. That is, she needs to be concerned about a non-established veset, establishing a veset, and about a previous veset.[59]
  3. The blood accompanying childbirth has no relevance to her veset, neither to establish a onah beynonit or a beginning of the interval to set when she'll bleed next. Until she menstruates once after childbirth there is no concern of veset.[60]

24 Months after Childbirth

  1. If a woman began menstruating before 24 months, according to many poskim her old veset applies and she can create a new established veset or a non-established veset. During that time she can't uproot an old veset by seeing on other times or by establishing a new established veset. [61]
  2. However, if a woman didn't begin menstruating before 24 months after childbirth her old vestot return at that time.[62] If she had a veset haflagah it only begins to apply after she sees once.[63] If she had a veset hachodesh according to some it applies immediately after 24 months and according to others it applies only if she saw once.[64] A woman who didn't have a veset is concerned about a onah beynonit only once she sees once.[65] A non-established veset according to many poskim it doesn't return.[66]

Elderly Women

  1. Certain laws of veset apply specifically to an elderly woman. The halacha's definition is once she is old enough that an average woman could be called grandmother by a stranger and she wouldn't mind. [67] The poskim don't give a clear ruling as to when a woman is considered an elderly woman. A woman in her mid-sixties is considered in this category.[68]
  2. The laws of an older woman described earlier for the purposes of veset don't have any relevance to niddah. Anytime a woman sees blood she is a Niddah. Nonetheless, once she stops seeing any blood for 90 days it is unlikely that she's going to she her period and she doesn't need to observe her veset days. If she sees blood afterwards she is certainly a niddah and needs to purify from that, but she doesn't need to observe her old veset day or any non-established veset to anticipate another period. However, if she sees again 3 times then the break of 90 days is considered an aberration and she has to observe her veset day.[69]

Sources

  1. ↑
    • Rashi Niddah 15a s.v. Bitoch explains that a woman is concerned about a 30 day veset since by default that's when a woman sees her period. The Ramban (Chiddushim 15a s.v. vehu) supports this opinion from the Yerushalmi Niddah 2:4. The Rashba (Torat Habayit 15a) based on Rashi writes that any woman who doesn't have a fixed veset needs to be concerned about the Onah Beynonit. The Ran Shevuot 4b-5a s.v. garsinan understood Rashi that there's an Onah Beynonit even if a woman has a fixed veset but argues that the concern of Onah Beynonit should only exist if she doesn't have a fixed veset. The idea of an Onah Beynonit is codified by the Tur and Shulchan Aruch 189:1.
    • The Shach 189:30 quotes many rishonim who don't quote the concept of Onah Beynonit. Furthermore, he concludes the Onah Beynonit will almost always fall out at the same time as the veset hachodesh. Sidrei Tahara 189:12 offers a few cases where they don't align. The Chacham Tzvi 114 argues with the Shach and defends Shulchan Aruch. Pri Deah (Siftei Levi 189:30) writes that the majority of poskim do not hold like the Shach.
  2. ↑ The Chavot Daat 189:12 doesn't accept the Shach's major premise but accepts another aspect of his approach which is that the Oneh Beynonit isn't on the 30th day as is the opinion of Shulchan Aruch but that it is the 31st day. Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 155:3 adopts the opinion of the Chavot Daat to calculate the Onah Beynonit as the 31st day. Badei Hashulchan 189:8 writes that one should be strict for the Chavot Daat except in an extenuating circumstance. Rav Ovadia Yosef in Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 77 accepts Shulchan Aruch that the Onah Beynonit is the 30th day.
  3. ↑ The Taharat Yisrael 186:13 writes that once a woman always sees past the 30th day we can establish her as having a pattern of not seeing before then. If so, she doesn't need to be concerned about the Onah Beynonit on the 30th day. This idea is also found in the Trumat Hadeshen 247 and Shulchan Aruch YD 186:3. See also Ritva Niddah 15a s.v. amar rabbi shimon. Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe YD 2:72), Rav Ovadia Yosef (Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 150), and Rabbi Mordechai Willig (Niddah Shiur 51) accept this leniency. However, many achronim disagree and write that this idea of the Trumat Hadeshen only applies to not having to do a bedika before tashmish but not for the topic of veset. This is the opinion of the Chelkat Yakov 2:74, Minchat Yitzchak 6:82, and Badei Hashulchan 186:25 and 189:4.
  4. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 189:6
  5. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 189:13
  6. ↑ Tosfot Niddah 64a s.v. itmar, Raavad p. 48, Rashba (Torat Habayit 9a), Tur and Shulchan Aruch 189:6
  7. ↑ Mishmeret Hatahara v. 1 p. 245-6 quotes that the Aruch Hashulchan 189:12 writes that she is concerned for the 29th since it is erev rosh chodesh. However, the Imrei Avraham 2 argues that we're concerned that since the 30th day of the first month was the first day of rosh chodesh the next period is on rosh chodesh even though there's only one rosh chodesh. Lastly, the Pri Deah (Turei Kesef 189:17) understands the Bach as holding that there's no day to be concerned for since there is no 30th of the month this month.
  8. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 189:2
  9. ↑ Pitchei Teshuva 189:9 citing the Nodeh Beyehuda YD 2:83. The Badei Hashulchan on 192:13 outlines the two positions regarding this question. The Shulchan Aruch Harav holds that the amount of Onot (12 hour periods) are counted from the last time she saw until this time and then the next veset is expected that number of Onot from her period. For example, if she saw on Sunday day and then again Saturday night 4 weeks later (which is 55 Onot), she would have a veset haflagah on the Shabbat day 4 weeks later (which is also 55 Onot). However, the Nodeh Beyehuda argues that we count the days and only afterwards do we establish which Onah within the day it was, night or day. Therefore, in the above example, she would have her veset haflagah on Motzei Shabbat 4 weeks later. Therefore, a woman would not establish a veset haflagah kavuah if the 3 intervals aren't in the same Onah. However, regarding a veset sheino kavuah the Badei Hashulchan concludes that the veset is established even if the two periods are in different Onot and we would follow the veset haflagah from the Onah of the last period.
  10. ↑ Aruch Hashulchan 189:26
  11. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 189:11
  12. ↑ The Gemara Niddah 39b and 64a both use cases of veset that are tied to the monthly calendar. Tosfot 64a s.v. itmar explains that a veset is established by the Jewish calendar even if some months are 29 days and others are 30. This is also the opinion of the Raavad (Baalei Hanefesh p. 48 cited by Rashba), Rashba (Taharat Habayit 9a and Mishmeret Habayit 9a), Rambam (Isurei Biyah 8:6), Maggid Mishna (Isurei Biyah 8:6), Tur and Shulchan Aruch 189:6. Even though the Ramban (Chiddushim 64a) questions this approach in his Hilchot Niddah 5:12 he accepted it.
  13. ↑ Niddah 11a, Rashba (Torat Habayit 9a), Shulchan Aruch YD 189:6
  14. ↑ Chavot Daat 189:4 writes that if the veset of the day of the week is established as a haflagah of the same day of the week then it is a veset of haflagah. For example, if a woman saw on 4 Sundays 3 weeks apart then she has a veset of haflagah of 22 days. However, if she only saw 3 times like that then she only has a veset for every third Sunday. Igrot Moshe YD 1:122 isn't certain that we follow the Chavot Daat where the veset of the day of the week is consistent but is sure that we follow a haflagah if the day of the week is increasing.
  15. ↑ Gemara Niddah 63b, Tur and Shulchan YD 184:1
  16. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 189:2
  17. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 189:13
  18. ↑ The Gemara 11a quotes a Briatta that states that a veset can't be established based on an unexpected event such as jumping, however, a veset which is a combination of both jumping and days can be established. The Tosfot 11a s.v. elah and Rashba (Torat Habayit 13a) maintain that it is impossible to create a veset for jumping alone. However, the Baal Hameor (cited by the Rashba) and Tur 189:17 argue that the gemara was only offering an explanation of the Briatta but Rav Huna held that jumping alone establishes a veset. Shulchan Aruch 189:17 follows the opinion of the Tosfot.
  19. ↑ Shach 189:48, Pri Deah (Siftei Levi 189:48)
  20. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 189:18
  21. ↑ Chavot Daat 189:25
  22. ↑ Mishna Niddah 63a, Shulchan Aruch YD 189:19
  23. ↑ Raavad (Baalei Hanefesh p. 49), Rashba (Torat Habayit 14b), Shulchan Aruch 189:11
  24. ↑ There is a dispute in Gemara Niddah 64a between Rav and Shmuel whether the veset of consecutive days of the month is established with 3 periods or only 4 since she needs to establish herself as progressing one day each month. The Rabbenu Chananel (cited by Rosh Niddah 9:3) holds like Rav and the Rambam (Issurei Biyah 8:6) like Shmuel. Rashba (Torat Habayit 14b) concludes that we should be strict for both opinions. This is also the opinion of Shulchan Aruch YD 189:7.
  25. ↑ Badei Hashulchan 189:58
  26. ↑ Badei Hashulchan 189:58
  27. ↑ Rabbenu Chananel understood the gemara Niddah 64a that you need to see 9 times in a pattern to establish a changing veset such as the 15th of one month, then the 16th of the next month, and then the 17th of the third month, the cycle continues for another 6 months starting the fourth and seventh time again on the 15th. Tosfot disagrees with Rabbenu Chananel in the gemara. Rashba (Torat Habyait 14b) writes that even though we disagree with the Rabbenu Chananel’s understanding we still hold that his case is considered a veset. Tur and Shulchan Aruch YD 189:8 agree. Shach 189:20 holds that this pattern is established even according to Shmuel without seeing on the 18th for each series to create this pattern.
  28. ↑ Raavad (Baalei Hanefesh p. 53), Taz 189:10, Shach 189:21. See there in Raavad who treats this as two separate vestot, while the Shach treats it as single cyclical pattern.
  29. ↑ The Gemara Niddah 64a records a dispute between Rav and Shmuel regarding an increasing veset of days during the month. Rav holds that it is established with three times and Shmuel holds it is established with four times since you need four times in order to establish three increases. Tosfot s.v. itmar extends this idea to increasing intervals. The opinion of Tosfot is codified by Tur and Shulchan Aruch YD 189:5. The Shach 189:6 explains that to establish a veset of increasing intervals for Rav it would take seeing four times which is equal to three intervals and according to Shmuel seeing five times which is equal to four intervals. Taz 189:6 agrees. Shulchan ruch 189:7 rules that we're strict for both the opinion of Rav and Shmuel.
  30. ↑ Rashba (Mishmeret Habayit 11b), Maggid Misna (Isurei Biyah 8:6), Shulchan Aruch 189:5, Shach 189:11
  31. ↑ Shach 189:12
  32. ↑ Shach 189:9 and Shach 189:68. See Tosfot Niddah 9b s.v. pichta. Sidrei Tahara 189:3 supports the Shach from the Raavad 3:6. The Peleti 189:6 accepts the Raavad's opinion but wonders how it is rationale since eventually the veset should run to the point that she won't see anymore and isn't a natural progression.
  33. ↑ The Raavad (Baalei Hanefesh p. 32) writes that if a woman has a veset only for a specific hour during the day and not for days that can establish a veset for that hour. Shulchan Aruch 189:3 codifies the opinion of the Raavad. Chavot Daat 189:4 explains that if she doesn’t have a veset for days and does have an established hour, she only needs to keep her non-kavuah vestot during that hour that she has a veset for.
  34. ↑ Rashba (Torat Habayit 15b), Shulchan Aruch 189:4. Even though Shulchan Aruch YD 184:9 rules like the Rambam, the Shulchan Aruch retracted and held like the Rashba in Shulchan Aruch YD 189:4.
  35. ↑ Chavot Daat 184:9 holds that she needs to have a moch dachuk the entire veset. Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 154:6 agrees. However, the Tosefta (Niddah 9:2) states that a women should do two bedikot during the veset. The Gra's emendation of the Tosefta is that she only needs to check once during the veset. Chazon Ish YD 80:20-22 holds that ideally she should do a bedika once in the beginning and once at the end of the veset. Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 127 and The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 136 agree. Igrot Moshe YD 3:48 writes that within the veset the women should check herself a few times.
  36. ↑ The Bet Yosef 184:9 explains the Rashba as holding that there's no obligation to do a bedika during a veset sheino kavuah. Rabbi Mordechai Willig (Niddah Shiur 50, at the end of the shiur) holds like this opinion.
  37. ↑ Badei Hashulchan 184:58 is strict if possible. The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 279 writes that a woman should do a bedika during a veset sheino kavuah and that's the minhag.
  38. ↑ Rav Papa in Niddah 64a says that a non-kavuah veset is established and removed with one time. However, a kavuah veset the Mishna 63b says takes 3 times to establish and remove. Tur and Shulchan Aruch 189:2 codify this.
  39. ↑ Gemara Niddah 64a establishes that she only needs to uproot it once. Shulchan Aruch 189:2 codifies this.
  40. ↑ Ramban (Hilchot Niddah 5:19), The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 325
  41. ↑ Raavad (Shaar Tikkun Havestot 2 p. 47), Ramban (Hilchot Niddah 5:19), Chavot Daat 189:10, The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 325
  42. ↑ Shulchan Aruch YD 189:15-6. The Raavad (Shaar Tikkun Vestot p. 34) writes that a veset is only completely uprooted if it is replaced by another veset. If she missed 3 times practically she isn't concerned for the veset but unless she establishes a new veset if she sees on the old veset once, that veset returns. This is view of the Tur and Bet Yosef 189:15 and The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 324. The Shulchan Aruch 189:16 clarifies that this applies both to a haflagah and a veset hachodesh. The Sidrei Tahara 189:19 explains that the Ramban (Hilchot Niddah 6:5) holds that if she saw on 3 different days then the veset is uprooted completely but nonetheless accepts the ruling of Shulchan Aruch. Simla 189:33 disagrees with Shulchan Aruch based on the Ramban and Rashi. Rav Mordechai Willig (Am Mordechai on Shulchan Aruch p. 127) agrees and suggests that even the Raavad doesn't hold like the Tur and Shulchan Aruch understood him. See there.
  43. ↑ Shaarei Tohar 4:21 writes that a continuation of a flow also uproots a veset just like it isn’t sufficient to establish a veset. Rabbi Willig (Am Mordechai on Shulchan Aruch p. 128) prefers this opinion. However, Igrot Moshe YD 1:122 assumes that if a woman continues to see during her veset that doesn’t establish but also doesn’t uproot the veset. Minchat Yitzchak 8:74 agrees based on the Chavot Daat 189:7. Shevet Halevi 5:107:13 is also strict.
  44. ↑ Bet Yosef 189:13(2) s.v. v'im tomar, Shach 189:31
  45. ↑ Bet Yosef 189:13 and Darkei Moshe 189:1 imply that a shorter period doesn't uproot a longer interval. This is also the opinion of the Taz 189:18 and Beit Meir 189:13. Shach 189:31 holds that it does. Badei Hashulchan (Tziyunim 132) writes that we don’t hold like the Shach that a shorter interval uproots a longer one. Shevet Halevi 2:81 and 5:107 doesn't hold like the Shach in most cases.
  46. ↑ Ramban (Hilchot Niddah 5:22) writes that if a woman sees on the 1st and 20th of Nissan and didn't see on the 1st of Iyar she's concerned about the 9th of Iyar because of the haflagah of 20 days. Bet Yosef 189:13 infers that if she did see on the 1st of Iyar she wouldn't be concerned about the 9th of Iyar. The Darkei Moshe 189:1 argues that the Ramban was giving a unique case but the halacha is that she should be concerned for the 9th of Iyar whether or not she saw on the 1st of Iyar. The Rama 189:13 rules according to his opinion in the Darkei Moshe. While the Taz 189:19 defends the position of the Rama, the Bach 189:16 and Shach 189:31 strongly disagree because once she sees for a shorter interval of 12 days she uprooted her interval of 20 days. Even if one disagrees with the Shach, another reason to disagree with the Taz is that we restart haflagah count from the last time she saw (Bach 16, Sidrei Tahara 14, Beit Meir 189:13). Badei HaShulchan 189:106 is lenient but adds that one who is strict for the Rama 189:13 and Taz 189:19 should be blessed.
  47. ↑ Bach 189:16, Chavot Daat 189:13, Rabbi Akiva Eiger 189:3. This is unlike the position of the Taz 189:17.
  48. ↑ Sidrei Tahara 184:4, Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 59-60
  49. ↑ Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe 3:48) is strict for the Or Zaruah.
  50. ↑ Rabbi Mordechai Willig (Niddah shiur 45 min 35-41) holds that we can be lenient against the Or Zaruah since that is the opinion of the Shulchan Aruch, Rama, Taz, and Chavot Daat. Also, even the Shach who is concerned for the Or Zaruah holds that it only applies if she has a fixed veset but since most woman don't have that we can be lenient. Taharat Habayit v. 1 pp. 55-58 holds that Sephardim should follow Shulchan Aruch and don't need to follow the Or Zaruah unlike the Ben Ish Chai (Tzav no. 1).
  51. ↑
    • The Raavad (Baalei Hanefesh cited by Bet Yosef 184:5) writes that if a woman always sees blood at night and a bit into the day her veset is established as that night as well as the time that it would extend into the day. The Bet Yosef 184:5 writes that there three opinions about this case whether only the night is established, or both the night and the day, or the night and the hour in the day during which she always sees. Shulchan Aruch 184:5 follows the Raavad.
    • The Raavad (Baalei Hanefesh cited by Bet Yosef 184:6) writes that if a women sees for a few days we look at the entirety of the time she would see as a veset. However, the Rosh (Niddah 9:3) argues that only the time when she initially sees is established as a veset. Shulchan Aruch 184:6 follows the Rosh. The Derisha 184:5 clarifies that the difference between the cases is if she sees for a short period of time it is considered part of the original veset, however, if she sees for several days they aren't included in the original veset and the veset is exclusively established by the original seeing. The Taz 184:9 agrees with the Derisha. Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 68 follows Shulchan Aruch.
    • The Chavot Daat 184:7 writes that if she stopped seeing for some time and then continues to see then the next day is also considered for the veset. The Pardes Rimonim (184 Shach 16) and Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 69 disagree.
  52. ↑ Shulchan Aruch YD 184:2 writes that only being together is forbidden. Rama 184:10 agrees. See Chatom Sofer YD 2:170 who provides a rationale for the Shulchan Aruch.
  53. ↑ Trumat Hadeshen 250. Badei Hashulchan 189:14 writes that the primary halacha is that we follow the Shulchan Aruch, however, someone who is strict will be blessed.
  54. ↑ Badei Hashulchan 184:14, Taharat Habayit v. 1, p. 67. Taharat Habayit forbids sleeping together even if they do not engage in tashmish, which is forbidden, as she might see blood while she's sleeping. Rav Mordechai Willig (Niddah Shiur 50 at the end) agrees with this stringency.
  55. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 184:2, Badei Hashulchan 184:14
  56. ↑ Piskei Teshuva YD 184:22 quoting the Chatom Sofer 170, Chavot Daat 184:13, and Sidrei Tahara 184:14 hold that the veset is forbidden even on the tevilah night. However, the Piskei Teshuva also quotes the Knesset Yechezkel who is lenient. See also Torat Hashlamim 187:29 who is in favor of the lenient side. Rav Ovadia Yosef in Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 103 rules that for a non-established veset one could be lenient but not for an established veset.
  57. ↑
    • The gemara 9a states that a pregnant woman who didn't do a bedika on her veset is still tahor. The Rosh (Niddah 1:4) learns from here that a pregnant woman doesn't need to be concerned for her veset or do a bedika. The Tur 184:7 and Rabbenu Yerucham (cited by Bet Yosef 184:7) apply this equally to a nursing woman based on the gemara Niddah 11a.
    • For this halacha the gemara Niddah 8b says that vestot are only pushed aside after 90 days of pregnancy. The Rashba (Torat Habayit 12b) cites a dispute between the Raavad and Baal Hameor if vestot are only pushed aside if she doesn't see blood for 90 days after 90 days of pregnancy. The Rashba sides with the opinion of the Raavad that immediately after 90 days of pregnancy she doesn't have to be concerned about a veset. The Shulchan Aruch 189:33 agrees.
    • The Rashba (Torat Habayit 12a) writes that if a woman sees during her pregnancy we look at it as an anomaly and it doesn't even become a non-established veset. The Raavad disagrees and considers periods during pregnancy to create a non-established veset. The Rashba concludes that one should be strict for the Raavad. Shulchan Aruch 189:33 follows the Raavad and rules that a pregnant woman after 90 days of pregnancy create an established veset but if she sees she does have to be concerned for a non-established veset. Additionally, Shulchan Aruch 189:34 rules that she doesn't need to be concerned about her previous veset during pregnancy after 90 days. The Sidrei Tahara 189:36 clarifies that she doesn't need to be concerned Onah Beynonit after 90 days of pregnancy. The Pri Deah (Turi Kesef 189:50), however, cites and supports the Maharam Padua who holds that Onah Beynonit exists during pregnancy.
    • Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe YD 3:52) writes that nowadays since the overwhelming majority of pregnant women don't get their period they do not have to be concerned for a veset after they took a pregnancy test and know they are pregnant. In a later response, Igrot Moshe YD 4:17(1) concludes that one should be strict. See the editor's addition to Igrot Moshe there (which was not written by Rav Moshe Feinstein). Shevet Halevi 3:114, Mishneh Halachot 5:148, and Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 80 disagree with Rav Moshe's leniency. The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 371 writes that most poskim don't accept Rav Moshe's leniency.
    • Rav Mordechai Willig (Niddah Shiur 61, min 39-41) is machmir to keep vestot during pregnancy and to be poresh and do bedika on Onah Beynonit. If she doesn't see during pregnancy these vestot will only exist one time if she doesn't have an established veset.
  58. ↑ Rav Mordechai Eliyahu in Darkei Tahara pp. 83-84, Taharat Yakov p. 23. The reason to be concerned for day 60 and 90 even though she didn't see on day 30 is because the Bet Yosef 189:15's opinion is that you can count another onah beynonit from a day on which you were supposed to see. That phantom period counts as the beginning of the next cycle. This is a complex opinion and highly contentious. The Shach 189:45 and Taz 189:31 along with the Bach and Maharshal argue that this is incorrect. In fact this seems to be the exact dispute between Rav Papa and Rav Huna in Niddah 39b and we follow Rav Papa. However, see Maharam Niddah 64a s.v. eima who explains Rashi along these lines. See also the Pri Deah Turei Kesef 189:31 who explains the Bet Yosef in this manner.
  59. ↑ The gemara Niddah 9a treats a post-partum woman as someone who isn't supposed to see her period for 24 months. Based on the Rashba (Torat Habayit 13a) this has relevance to not being concerned about veset. The Shulchan Aruch 189:33 rules that a woman who gave birth doesn't establish a veset for 24 months whether or not she is actually nursing, but should be concerned for a non-established veset. The Shulchan Aruch 189:34 also rules that a woman who gave birth for 24 month doesn't need to be concerned for her old veset. Nonetheless, Igrot Moshe YD 3:52 rules that since nowadays women do see their period within 24 months of birth we have to be concerned for a veset during that time. This is also the opinion of Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 85. Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 376 writes that many poskim agree.
  60. ↑ The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 375. Badei Hashulchan 189:33 s.v. shetireh writes that blood of childbirth is certainly different than niddah blood, however, he is unsure when the consider the blood accompanying the childbirth to have ended.
  61. ↑ The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 376-7 clarifies that considering the period of 24 months after childbirth to be a time when she might see her period is only a chumra but it can't be used to uproot an old veset. However, if she did menstruate before 24 months then after 24 months there is no new concern immediately upon the conclusion of 24 months.
  62. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 189:34
  63. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 189:34
  64. ↑ Shulchan Aruch 189:34 like the opinion of the Rashba holds that a veset hachodesh returns immediately. However, the Shach 189:75 quotes the Raavad and Ramban who argue that even veset hachodesh doesn't return without first seeing once. The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 377 quotes both opinions.
  65. ↑ The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 378 based on Shulchan Aruch 189:34 as onah beynonit is like haflagah that it can't be established with less than 2 periods.
  66. ↑ Pitchei Teshuva 189:32 quotes the Nodeh Beyehuda 2:86 who says that the veset sheino kavuah doesn’t return. However, the Lechem Vsimla 189:57 argues. The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 378 is lenient, while the Badei Hashulchan 189:349 is strict.
  67. ↑ The gemara Niddah 9a cites a dispute when a woman is considered elderly for this topic. Either it depends on when society calls women old or when she wouldn't be embarrassed or mind being called mother. The Rambam (Isurei Biyah 9:5) and Rashba (Torat Habayit Hakatzar 9b) hold that it depends on when she doesn't mind being called mother. Tosfot 9b. s.v. kol clarifies that her status depends on when a regular women wouldn't be embarrassed or mind being called mother and not her personal preference. Shulchan Aruch 189:29 rules that once she is old enough to be called mother and not care she is considered elderly for this halacha. The Badei Hashulchan 189:320 and Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 86 write that the halacha today depends on whether she minds being called grandmother today and not mother.
  68. ↑ The Laws of Niddah v. 1 p. 379 writes that women would mind being called "old" when they are in their fifties even though that is the average age of menopause. He adds that in the mid-sixties certainly a woman should be considered elderly. See Taharat Habayit v. 1 p. 86-7 for a range of ages when potentially a woman could begin to be considered elderly between 48 and 65.
  69. ↑ Rabbi Eliezer in the Mishna Niddah 7a states that an elderly woman who didn't see for 90 days is unlikely to see again for purposes of Taharot. The Rashba (Torat Habayit Hakatzar 9b) applies these laws to veset and states that an elderly woman who didn't see for 90 days doesn't need to be concerned for her previous veset. Shulchan Aruch YD 189:28 rules that an elderly woman who didn't see for 90 days doesn't need to be concerned for her previous veset. The Rama 189:28 adds that she doesn't need to be concerned for her veset sheino kavuah either.
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