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Zimmun: Difference between revisions
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# It only applies when three or more people eat together. The three conditions to be considered “together” is that those who are eating 1) eat while seated, 2) sit at one table, and 3) eat simultaneously either at the beginning or the end of the meal. <ref> S”A 193:2 writes that a third person can join two that already started eating if he is “Koveh” (establishes his place) with them. Mishna Brurah 193:21 writes that if one doesn’t eat while sitting and eat at the same table one isn’t considered as being Koveh with the others. Magan Avraham 195:2 and Mishna Brurah 197:3 also include the requirement of sitting at the same table. </ref> | # It only applies when three or more people eat together. The three conditions to be considered “together” is that those who are eating 1) eat while seated, 2) sit at one table, and 3) eat simultaneously either at the beginning or the end of the meal. <ref> S”A 193:2 writes that a third person can join two that already started eating if he is “Koveh” (establishes his place) with them. Mishna Brurah 193:21 writes that if one doesn’t eat while sitting and eat at the same table one isn’t considered as being Koveh with the others. Magan Avraham 195:2 and Mishna Brurah 197:3 also include the requirement of sitting at the same table. </ref> | ||
# If two groups ate in different places in the same house and they could see from one group to another, if they have intent (when they began the meal) to join for Zimmun they may join, however, if if they didn’t have intent, then according to Sephardim they may not join for Zimmun, but according to Ashkenazim it’s a dispute whether they may join for Zimmun. <Ref>S”A 195:1, Mishna Brurah 195:6 </ref> | # If two groups ate in different places in the same house and they could see from one group to another, if they have intent (when they began the meal) to join for Zimmun they may join, however, if if they didn’t have intent, then according to Sephardim they may not join for Zimmun, but according to Ashkenazim it’s a dispute whether they may join for Zimmun. <Ref>S”A 195:1, Mishna Brurah 195:6 </ref> | ||
# If three people aren’t obligated to make Zimmun as they didn’t join their meals, the three can’t do Zimmun. <ref> Rama 193:3 writes that even if three people aren’t obligated in Zimmun it’s preferable that they make Zimmun because of Berov Am Hadrat Melech, that it’s preferable to honor Hashem in multitudes. Mishna Brurah 193:23 writes that the same would apply if there are more than 3 people. However, Magan Avraham in name of many poskim that since one can’t fulfill the Birkat HaMazon for another person one is also not allowed to make a zimun together. Mishna Brurah 193:24 concludes that the Magan Avraham is more logical. </ref> | # If three people aren’t obligated to make Zimmun as they didn’t join their meals, the three can’t do Zimmun. <ref> Rama 193:3 writes that even if three people aren’t obligated in Zimmun it’s preferable that they make Zimmun because of Berov Am Hadrat Melech, that it’s preferable to honor Hashem in multitudes. Mishna Brurah 193:23 writes that the same would apply if there are more than 3 people. However, Magan Avraham in name of many poskim that since one can’t fulfill the [[Birkat HaMazon]] for another person one is also not allowed to make a zimun together. Mishna Brurah 193:24 concludes that the Magan Avraham is more logical. </ref> | ||
# If three ate together and were obligated in Zimmun and one forgot about Zimmun and said Birkat HaMazon then the other two can say Zimmun with the third. <Ref>S”A 194:1 </ref>However, if one of the group answered Zimmun with another group he can’t answer another zimmun of three. <Ref>Rama 194:1 </ref> | # If three ate together and were obligated in Zimmun and one forgot about Zimmun and said [[Birkat HaMazon]] then the other two can say Zimmun with the third. <Ref>S”A 194:1 </ref>However, if one of the group answered Zimmun with another group he can’t answer another zimmun of three. <Ref>Rama 194:1 </ref> | ||
# If three ate together and one person left he could be called back and Zimmun could be said even if he’s standing by the door next to them, however he should say Birkat HaMazon where he ate. However, if ten people ate together and one left he should be called back and everyone should sit down for Zimmun. <Ref>S”A 194:2, Mishna Brurah 194:8 </ref> | # If three ate together and one person left he could be called back and Zimmun could be said even if he’s standing by the door next to them, however he should say [[Birkat HaMazon]] where he ate. However, if ten people ate together and one left he should be called back and everyone should sit down for Zimmun. <Ref>S”A 194:2, Mishna Brurah 194:8 </ref> | ||
# If in a school or yeshiva, the students go to lunch at the same time, the group can make Zimmun together even if they sit at separate tables as long as they can see from one table to another. Even if they don’t have enough at each table to make their own Zimmun of ten, they can join together to make a Zimmun of ten. However, it’s preferable that they one time actual say verbally that they intend to eat together. <ref> Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 375) </ref> | # If in a school or yeshiva, the students go to lunch at the same time, the group can make Zimmun together even if they sit at separate tables as long as they can see from one table to another. Even if they don’t have enough at each table to make their own Zimmun of ten, they can join together to make a Zimmun of ten. However, it’s preferable that they one time actual say verbally that they intend to eat together. <ref> Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 375) </ref> | ||
===Two who ate together=== | ===Two who ate together=== | ||
# Two who ate together aren't obligated in Zimmun and therefore, they should say Birkat HaMazon to themselves. However, if one of them doesn’t know how to say Birkat HaMazon and the other does, then the one who knows may say it aloud and fulfill the obligation of the one who doesn’t know as long as the one saying has intent to fulfill the obligation of the other, and the one listening has intent to fulfill his obligation. <ref>S”A 193:1 </ref> | # Two who ate together aren't obligated in Zimmun and therefore, they should say [[Birkat HaMazon]] to themselves. However, if one of them doesn’t know how to say [[Birkat HaMazon]] and the other does, then the one who knows may say it aloud and fulfill the obligation of the one who doesn’t know as long as the one saying has intent to fulfill the obligation of the other, and the one listening has intent to fulfill his obligation. <ref>S”A 193:1 </ref> | ||
# According to some it’s crucial that the one who is listening understand the [[Birkat HaMazon]], while others are lenient and say that such is the minhag. <Ref>Mishna Brurah 193:5 </ref> | # According to some it’s crucial that the one who is listening understand the [[Birkat HaMazon]], while others are lenient and say that such is the minhag. <Ref>Mishna Brurah 193:5 </ref> | ||
==A Zimmun of Ten== | ==A Zimmun of Ten== | ||
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# The Ashkenazic minhag is not to include children under Bar mitzvah for zimmun<Ref>Rama 199:10 </ref>, while the Sephardic minhag is to include children of age 6 who know to whom they are saying Birkat HaMazon. <ref>S"A 199:10, Sh"t Yechava Daat 4:13 </ref> | # The Ashkenazic minhag is not to include children under Bar mitzvah for zimmun<Ref>Rama 199:10 </ref>, while the Sephardic minhag is to include children of age 6 who know to whom they are saying Birkat HaMazon. <ref>S"A 199:10, Sh"t Yechava Daat 4:13 </ref> | ||
==Zimmun after someone already Benched== | ==Zimmun after someone already Benched== | ||
# If three people ate bread together, and one forgot to wait for Zimmun, the other two can do Zimmun with the one who already Benched. <ref> S”A 194:1 writes that if one out of three people in a Zimmun said Birkat HaMazon they can still ma`ke Zimmun to fulfill the obligation of the two and the one who said Birkat HaMazon will not fulfill his obligation because a Zimmun must be said before Birkat HaMazon. </ref> | # If three people ate bread together, and one forgot to wait for Zimmun, the other two can do Zimmun with the one who already Benched. <ref> S”A 194:1 writes that if one out of three people in a Zimmun said [[Birkat HaMazon]] they can still ma`ke Zimmun to fulfill the obligation of the two and the one who said [[Birkat HaMazon]] will not fulfill his obligation because a Zimmun must be said before Birkat HaMazon. </ref> | ||
# If three people ate together, two ate bread and one ate a Kezayit of something else or drank a Reviyat of a drink (other than water) are obligated to make Zimmun. <ref> Mishna Brurah 197:20 writes that if one out of three people ate a [[Kezayit]] of a food (other than bread) or drank a reviyat of drinks (other than water), the three people can still make Zimmun. </ref> | # If three people ate together, two ate bread and one ate a Kezayit of something else or drank a Reviyat of a drink (other than water) are obligated to make Zimmun. <ref> Mishna Brurah 197:20 writes that if one out of three people ate a [[Kezayit]] of a food (other than bread) or drank a reviyat of drinks (other than water), the three people can still make Zimmun. </ref> | ||
# If one of three only had a Kezayit of another food or a reviyat of drinks, and one of those who ate bread forgot to wait for Zimmun and Benched, the other one who ate bread can no longer make Zimmun. <Ref> Mishna Brurah 197:9 </ref> | # If one of three only had a Kezayit of another food or a reviyat of drinks, and one of those who ate bread forgot to wait for Zimmun and Benched, the other one who ate bread can no longer make Zimmun. <Ref> Mishna Brurah 197:9 </ref> | ||
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==Safek Zimmun== | ==Safek Zimmun== | ||
# If there’s a doubt whether Zimmun was made or not (or in general a doubt concerning Zimmun) one should be strict to say Zimmun and in a Zimmun of 10 one shouldn’t add Hashem’s name. <ref> Mishna Brurah (Buir Halacha 197 D”H Imahem) quotes the Pri Megadim and Chaye Adam who write that if there’s a safek by zimmun one should say it however by the Zimmun of ten people one shouldn’t say it because it includes Hashem’s name.</ref> | # If there’s a doubt whether Zimmun was made or not (or in general a doubt concerning Zimmun) one should be strict to say Zimmun and in a Zimmun of 10 one shouldn’t add Hashem’s name. <ref> Mishna Brurah (Buir Halacha 197 D”H Imahem) quotes the Pri Megadim and Chaye Adam who write that if there’s a safek by zimmun one should say it however by the Zimmun of ten people one shouldn’t say it because it includes Hashem’s name.</ref> | ||
==Saying Birkat HaMazon aloud== | ==Saying [[Birkat HaMazon]] aloud== | ||
# The original establishment was that the one doing Zimmun would read the entire Birkat HaMazon out loud. Nowadays, the practice is that everyone say it silently to themselves. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 128, chapter 14) quotes that Panim Meirot that the original establishment was that one person say it aloud and everyone listen. However, S”A 183:7 writes that the practice that should be followed nowadays is that one person say it aloud and everyone to follow along Bracha by Bracha. </ref> | # The original establishment was that the one doing Zimmun would read the entire [[Birkat HaMazon]] out loud. Nowadays, the practice is that everyone say it silently to themselves. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 128, chapter 14) quotes that Panim Meirot that the original establishment was that one person say it aloud and everyone listen. However, S”A 183:7 writes that the practice that should be followed nowadays is that one person say it aloud and everyone to follow along Bracha by Bracha. </ref> | ||
# According to Ashkenazim it’s preferable to finish the Bracha before the Mezamen (one doing the Zimmun) and then when the Mezamen finishes answer Amen. According to Sephardim there’s no reason to finish before the Mezamen and if one did, nonetheless, one doesn’t answer Amen. <Ref>S”A and Rama 183:7, Vezot HaBracha (pg 128, chapter 14) </ref> See further on the [[Birkat HaMazon]] page. | # According to Ashkenazim it’s preferable to finish the Bracha before the Mezamen (one doing the Zimmun) and then when the Mezamen finishes answer Amen. According to Sephardim there’s no reason to finish before the Mezamen and if one did, nonetheless, one doesn’t answer Amen. <Ref>S”A and Rama 183:7, Vezot HaBracha (pg 128, chapter 14) </ref> See further on the [[Birkat HaMazon]] page. | ||
# If it’s difficult to listen to the entire Birkat HaMazon out loud one should at least listen to the primary part of the Bracha, which according to Sephardim is Birkat HaZimun (the words “Baruch SheAchalnu…Chayinu”) and according to Ashkenazim is through Birkat HaZan (the first Bracha of Birkat HaMazon). Therefore according to Ashkenazim the Mezamen (even if he is Sephardi) must say the first Bracha out loud and everyone should say it silently along with the Mezamen. <Ref>S”A and Rama 200:1 identify clearly the crucial part of Zimmun, according to S”A it is the Zimmun of Baruch SheAchalnu and according to the Rama it is including the first Bracha. Mishna Brurah 183:28 holds that Ashkenazim should at least say the first Bracha quietly together with the Mezamen and those who have the minhag that everyone just says it to themselves are mistaken. So rules Vezot HaBracha (pg 129, chapter 14). Vezot HaBracha (pg 335) quotes Rav Wosner in Kovetz MeBet Levi (Nissan 5758) who defends the minhag slightly. Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 371) says that a Sephardi who is a Mezamen for Ashkenazim should say the first Bracha out loud. </ref> | # If it’s difficult to listen to the entire [[Birkat HaMazon]] out loud one should at least listen to the primary part of the Bracha, which according to Sephardim is Birkat HaZimun (the words “Baruch SheAchalnu…Chayinu”) and according to Ashkenazim is through Birkat HaZan (the first Bracha of Birkat HaMazon). Therefore according to Ashkenazim the Mezamen (even if he is Sephardi) must say the first Bracha out loud and everyone should say it silently along with the Mezamen. <Ref>S”A and Rama 200:1 identify clearly the crucial part of Zimmun, according to S”A it is the Zimmun of Baruch SheAchalnu and according to the Rama it is including the first Bracha. Mishna Brurah 183:28 holds that Ashkenazim should at least say the first Bracha quietly together with the Mezamen and those who have the minhag that everyone just says it to themselves are mistaken. So rules Vezot HaBracha (pg 129, chapter 14). Vezot HaBracha (pg 335) quotes Rav Wosner in Kovetz MeBet Levi (Nissan 5758) who defends the minhag slightly. Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 371) says that a Sephardi who is a Mezamen for Ashkenazim should say the first Bracha out loud. </ref> | ||
# According to Ashkenazim, if there’s a large group and those benching will not hear the Mezamen until the end of the first Bracha it’s preferable for the group to separate into groups of three so that it’s possible to hear the Mezamen until the end of the first Bracha. <Ref>Mishna Brurah 193:17, Vezot HaBracha (pg 129, chapter 14) also quotes the Chazon Ish who argues but still quotes the Mishna Brurah as the primary opinion. </ref> | # According to Ashkenazim, if there’s a large group and those benching will not hear the Mezamen until the end of the first Bracha it’s preferable for the group to separate into groups of three so that it’s possible to hear the Mezamen until the end of the first Bracha. <Ref>Mishna Brurah 193:17, Vezot HaBracha (pg 129, chapter 14) also quotes the Chazon Ish who argues but still quotes the Mishna Brurah as the primary opinion. </ref> | ||
# It’s preferable that the Mezamen not use a microphone for Zimmun but rather someone with a loud voice do the Zimmun. <Ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 129, chapter 14) </ref> | # It’s preferable that the Mezamen not use a microphone for Zimmun but rather someone with a loud voice do the Zimmun. <Ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 129, chapter 14) </ref> | ||
