When Is It Permitted to Benefit the Lender: Difference between revisions
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When Is It Permitted to Benefit the Lender (view source)
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===Favors, Kind Gestures, and Saying Thank You (Ribbit Devarim)=== | ===Favors, Kind Gestures, and Saying Thank You (Ribbit Devarim)=== | ||
# It is forbidden to give any benefit to the lender | # It is forbidden to give any benefit to the lender. Even a nice word or greeting them with a simple word hello can be forbidden if a person didn’t usually say hello before the loan and one is doing it because of the loan.<ref>Gemara Bava Metsia 75b, Rambam Malveh Vi'Loveh 5:12, Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 160:11</ref> This is called Ribbit Devarim and is a rabbinically forbidden form of ribbit.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 160:95, The Laws of Ribbis (Rabbi Reisman) Chapter 3:note 16, Bris Yehuda 11: note 62, Horaa Berura 160:56, Chochmat Adam 131:11<br> | ||
#Ribbit Devarim only applies during the duration of the loan and not before or afterwards.<ref>Rabbenu Yerucham Meisharim 8:1, Meyuchas LRitva Bava Metsia 68b s.v. visura, Radvaz 3:1060, Chelket Binyamin 160:99 and 95 citing Ran Ketubot 46a, Sefer Hatrumot 3:13, Shulchan Aruch 160:10</ref> Some say that even after the loan is repaid it is forbidden to thank someone for a loan explicitly because of the loan; also it is forbidden to flatter someone to give you a loan before the loan begins.<reF>Horah Brurah on 160:11 citing Shulchan Aruch Harav 160:9</ref> | Is it Diroayta or Dirabanan? | ||
# | * Sefer Hatrumot Shaar 46:3:13, as well as the Ran (Ketubot 46b or 16b in Dapei Harif) say that this prohibition is dirabanan. See also Rambam Peirush Hamishnayot. Chelkat Binyamin 160:95, The Laws of Ribbis (Rabbi Reisman) Chapter 3:note 16, Bris Yehuda 11: note 62, Horaa Berura 160:56, Chochmat Adam 131:11 all write that this is the accepted opinion, and the pasuk quoted by the Gemara is just as asmachta. | ||
#It is forbidden to write in a sefer thank you to someone who lent you money in order to publish a sefer.<ref>Igrot Moshe YD 1:80. There he permits writing that Hashem should bless the person since that is a mitzvah to publicize someone who does a mitzvah.</ref> | * Rav Elchonon Wasserman (Kovetz Shiurim Kiddushin Ot 77) writes that the implication of Tosafot Kiddushin 8b “Tzedaka Minayin” is that this prohibition is actually from the Torah. (See there where he questions such a possibility. See also Yabea Omer YD 4:9 where he discusses whether Tosafot really hold that way). Sefer Yereim 118 and Smag (Rav 193) hold this way. Yabea Omer 4:9 quotes this as the opinion of the Rivash 147 as well</ref> | ||
# it is forbidden for the lender to ask the borrower for any favor even something simple as alerting him when someone will come to a certain place.<ref>Mishna Bava Metsia 75b, Shulchan Aruch 160:12</ref> | # Ribbit Devarim only applies during the duration of the loan and not before or afterwards.<ref>Rabbenu Yerucham Meisharim 8:1, Meyuchas LRitva Bava Metsia 68b s.v. visura, Radvaz 3:1060, Chelket Binyamin 160:99 and 95 citing Ran Ketubot 46a, Sefer Hatrumot 3:13, Shulchan Aruch 160:10</ref> Some say that even after the loan is repaid it is forbidden to thank someone for a loan explicitly because of the loan; also it is forbidden to flatter someone to give you a loan before the loan begins.<reF>Horah Brurah on 160:11 citing Shulchan Aruch Harav 160:9</ref> | ||
# It is forbidden to ask the borrower to do something for you even if he would have done so anyway.<ref>Taz 160:5 in explaining the Rambam, Chelkat Binyamin 160:111. Rav Meir Akoka in Bnetivot Hahorah 10:24 p. 150 proves from the S"A 172:4, S"A 160:23, and Mabit 1:6 unlike the Taz. He applies the Taz to many examples including: lending money on condition that he stops smoking, he puts conditions on how he can spend the money properly, for a certain apartment, how the loan is repaid with check or cash. </ref> | # Many poskim permit thanking the lender with a simple thank you<ref>see [https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/866229/rabbi-aryeh-lebowitz/from-the-rabbi-s-desk-the-prohibition-to-say-thank-you/ Rabbi Aryeh Lebowitz]<br> | ||
* [https://www.torahbase.org/%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%A9%D7%AA-%D7%9B%D7%99-%D7%AA%D7%A6%D7%90-%D7%A8%D7%91%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%91%D7%93%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%95%D7%91%D7%98%D7%95%D7%91%D7%AA-%D7%94%D7%A0%D7%90%D7%94/ Rav Osher Weiss] argues emphatically that a simple thank you is permitted and proper | |||
* Horaa Berura 160:60 permits this as well because it is just being polite. Additionally, since he will respond with a "you're welcome," the two pleasantries cancel each other out. He adds (Shaar Hatziyun 137) that it would only be allowed at the time of borrowing or repaying, but not at a random other time where it isn't necessary. | |||
* [https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?a=16507 Rabbi Gershon West] says in the name of Rav Shmuel Fuerst, that even though Rav Moshe Feinstein writes that publishing a thank you in a sefer is not permitted, he would allow saying a thank you when borrowing. | |||
* Chacham Ovadia Yosef (Halichot Olam 8: pg. 14) allows it. Ribbis Le-Or Ha-Halachah cites from Chacham Ben-Zion Abba Shaul that one can be lenient in this matter</ref> Others question the permissibility since it is giving something to the lender in return for the loan in addition to the original loan. Some are lenient since it is a generally accepted custom to thank people for very small favors and so it is rude to do otherwise and if the entire expression of gratitude is minimal it is like it was normal to do beforehand. see also Orchos Rabbenu 4: pg. 65 who writes that when the Chazon Ish would lend someone money, he would tell them not to say thank you<ref> | |||
* Chelkat Binyamin 160:108 presents reasons to be lenient since thanking someone for a loan is merely a sign of derech eretz and not in exchange for the loan. See there at length. Additionally, he cites Minchat Shlomo 1:27:1 and 2:68 based on Graz is strict.<br> | |||
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# It is forbidden to write in a sefer thank you to someone who lent you money in order to publish a sefer.<ref>Igrot Moshe YD 1:80. There he permits writing that Hashem should bless the person since that is a mitzvah to publicize someone who does a mitzvah. Darkei Teshuva 88 quotes the Erech Shai who is machmir and the Marbeh Torah who is lenient. Yabea Omer YD 4:9 recommends that if one wants to thank a lender, that some of the money, should be used as a donation, or even the purchase of the eventual sefer, rather than a loan</ref> Others permit this.<ref>Rabbi Meir Mazuz (Ohr Torah 22:2:4) allows this for the mitzva and cites several example of sefarim that were published with thank you’s to the lender at the beginning.</ref> | |||
# Some say that you can praise your lender to others because it isn’t interest that goes from the borrower to the lender. <ref> The Laws of Ribbis 3:13 and Bris Yehuda 11: note 63 based on Shulchan Aruch Harav 9. see however Yabea Omer 4:9:4 </ref> | |||
# If the lender initiates a greeting, the borrower can respond.<ref> The Laws of Ribbis 3:11 based on the language of Shulchan Aruch 160:11 </ref> | |||
# It is forbidden for the lender to ask the borrower for any favor even something simple as alerting him when someone will come to a certain place.<ref>Mishna Bava Metsia 75b, Shulchan Aruch 160:12</ref> | |||
# It is forbidden to ask the borrower to do something for you, even if he would have done so anyway.<ref>Taz 160:5 in explaining the Rambam, Chelkat Binyamin 160:111. Rav Meir Akoka in Bnetivot Hahorah 10:24 p. 150 proves from the S"A 172:4, S"A 160:23, and Mabit 1:6 unlike the Taz. He applies the Taz to many examples including: lending money on condition that he stops smoking, he puts conditions on how he can spend the money properly, for a certain apartment, how the loan is repaid with check or cash. </ref> | |||
# The borrower can’t go to the simcha (celebration) of the lender unless he would have done so anyway.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 160:112</ref> | # The borrower can’t go to the simcha (celebration) of the lender unless he would have done so anyway.<ref>Chelkat Binyamin 160:112</ref> | ||
