When Does Shabbat End?: Difference between revisions
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* Rabbi Dr. Leo Levy in Zmanim Khalacha p. 19-20 makes the point that it is clear that the Gra is correct in his calculation and even the intention of the Trumat Hadeshen 123, Shulchan Aruch 459, and Rama 261 was that as well. The only way to maintain a 18 minute mil is if you calculate that there’s 12 hours from olot until tzet and that’s 40 mil, but then the 12 hours and resulting minutes are ‘large’ minutes from olot to tzet. Therefore, that would be equal to 22.5 in our minutes measured with 12 equal hours during the day and 12 during the night on the perfect day. This is also the opinion of the Gra 459:5 and Chatom Sofer OC 80. Chok Yaakov 459 makes this same point as the Gra. The reason that the Gra thought that he was attacking the Trumat Hadeshen is because he isn’t clear and used the language of an hour and could have been understood to be referring to our shorter hours. The only question he has is on the Pri Megadim, Mishna Brurah, and later poskim who quoted the shitah of 18 minutes. Yodei Binah v. 4 p. 90 and Birkat Arev 17:1 p. 79 agree with Zmanim Khalacha on this point. | * Rabbi Dr. Leo Levy in Zmanim Khalacha p. 19-20 makes the point that it is clear that the Gra is correct in his calculation and even the intention of the Trumat Hadeshen 123, Shulchan Aruch 459, and Rama 261 was that as well. The only way to maintain a 18 minute mil is if you calculate that there’s 12 hours from olot until tzet and that’s 40 mil, but then the 12 hours and resulting minutes are ‘large’ minutes from olot to tzet. Therefore, that would be equal to 22.5 in our minutes measured with 12 equal hours during the day and 12 during the night on the perfect day. This is also the opinion of the Gra 459:5 and Chatom Sofer OC 80. Chok Yaakov 459 makes this same point as the Gra. The reason that the Gra thought that he was attacking the Trumat Hadeshen is because he isn’t clear and used the language of an hour and could have been understood to be referring to our shorter hours. The only question he has is on the Pri Megadim, Mishna Brurah, and later poskim who quoted the shitah of 18 minutes. Yodei Binah v. 4 p. 90 and Birkat Arev 17:1 p. 79 agree with Zmanim Khalacha on this point. | ||
* See [[Talk:When Does Shabbat End?]] for the Derech Yashara's argument based on the Leket Yosher. Orot Chaim 6:5 supports the 18 minute mil based on Moed Katan 21b and the rishonim there. | * See [[Talk:When Does Shabbat End?]] for the Derech Yashara's argument based on the Leket Yosher. Orot Chaim 6:5 supports the 18 minute mil based on Moed Katan 21b and the rishonim there. | ||
* R Meir Mazuz in Or Torah 5745 ch. 92 and Or Torah Tevet 5755 p. 262 disagrees with the point of the Zmanim Khalacha within the Trumat Hadeshen. His answer is that the median day of the Trumat Hadeshen is in fact in the middle of the winter when the ‘day’ (which halachically is defined by olot to tzet) is equal to the night. That day there’s 40 mil, 12 hours, and a 18 minute mil. That’s the calculations of all the poskim who didn’t specify that they were discussing the 75 min hour. Also the Gra say it is a big mistake and not that the | * R Meir Mazuz in Or Torah 5745 ch. 92 and Or Torah Tevet 5755 p. 262 disagrees with the point of the Zmanim Khalacha within the Trumat Hadeshen. His answer is that the median day of the Trumat Hadeshen is in fact in the middle of the winter when the ‘day’ (which halachically is defined by olot to tzet) is equal to the night. That day there’s 40 mil, 12 hours, and a 18 minute mil. That’s the calculations of all the poskim who didn’t specify that they were discussing the 75 min hour. Also the Gra say it is a big mistake and not that the Shulchan Aruch meant longer hours. Rather it is a dispute Shulchan Aruch and Gra and we follow the Shulchan Aruch. Or Torah 5759 v. 380 p. 811 disputes Rav Mazuz's article and Rav Mazuz responds there. | ||
* Rav Dovid Yosef in Ki Ba Hashemesh (end of ch. 3, pp. 33-34) addresses this issue at great length with no clear resolution. He suggests the same idea as Rav Mazuz but finds that it is very difficult. He leaves the question and maintains that the halacha is nonetheless 18 minute mil. | * Rav Dovid Yosef in Ki Ba Hashemesh (end of ch. 3, pp. 33-34) addresses this issue at great length with no clear resolution. He suggests the same idea as Rav Mazuz but finds that it is very difficult. He leaves the question and maintains that the halacha is nonetheless 18 minute mil. | ||
</ref> Others define a mil as 24 minutes, making Shabbat end 96 minutes after sunset.<ref>Magen Avraham 459:3. 96 minutes- Satmar Rebbe (Zemirot Divrei Yoel) and Shu"t Beit Avi (3:117). The 24 minute mil is based on the opinion of the Rambam (Rambam Korban Pesach 5:8 and Pirush Mishnayot Pesachim 9:1) described below.</ref> | </ref> Others define a mil as 24 minutes, making Shabbat end 96 minutes after sunset.<ref>Magen Avraham 459:3. 96 minutes- Satmar Rebbe (Zemirot Divrei Yoel) and Shu"t Beit Avi (3:117). The 24 minute mil is based on the opinion of the Rambam (Rambam Korban Pesach 5:8 and Pirush Mishnayot Pesachim 9:1) described below.</ref> | ||
* Finally, some of those of who hold of a 24 minute mil maintain Tzeit HaKochavim occurs two hours after sunset.<ref>Uvdot V'Hanhagot L'Beit Brisk (Vol. 4, page 54) in the name of the Brisker Rav.</ref> This position is based on the Rambam's position that a mil is 24 minutes and on those who maintain there are not four but five mil for Tzeit HaKochavim.<ref>24 mins/mil * 5 mil = 120 mins. The Rambam (Pirush Mishnayot Pesachim 9:1 and Korban Pesach 5:8) holds of the 24 minute mil and that there is 5 mil from shekiya until tzet. Tosfot Pesachim 11b s.v. echad also has the text that it is 5 mil from shekiya until tzet but the Gra OC 459 emends the text of Tosfot to say 4 mil. Those who have 4 mil: Tosfot Shabbat 35a s.v. talta, Tosfot Zevachim s.v. minyan, Tosfot Pesachim 94a s.v. Rabbi Yehuda, Ramban Torat Adam, Rashba Shabbat 34b, Rabbenu Dovid Pesachim 12a s.v. dyahavinan, and most of all the rishonim who agree with Rabbenu Tam.</ref> | * Finally, some of those of who hold of a 24 minute mil maintain Tzeit HaKochavim occurs two hours after sunset.<ref>Uvdot V'Hanhagot L'Beit Brisk (Vol. 4, page 54) in the name of the Brisker Rav.</ref> This position is based on the Rambam's position that a mil is 24 minutes and on those who maintain there are not four but five mil for Tzeit HaKochavim.<ref>24 mins/mil * 5 mil = 120 mins. The Rambam (Pirush Mishnayot Pesachim 9:1 and Korban Pesach 5:8) holds of the 24 minute mil and that there is 5 mil from shekiya until tzet. Sefer Hayashar (Chidushim 221) and Yereyim 274 also have the text of 5 mil. Tosfot Pesachim 11b s.v. echad also has the text that it is 5 mil from shekiya until tzet but the Gra OC 459 emends the text of Tosfot to say 4 mil. Those who have 4 mil: Tosfot Shabbat 35a s.v. talta, Tosfot Zevachim s.v. minyan, Tosfot Pesachim 94a s.v. Rabbi Yehuda, Ramban Torat Adam, Rashba Shabbat 34b, Rabbenu Dovid Pesachim 12a s.v. dyahavinan, and most of all the rishonim who agree with Rabbenu Tam.</ref> | ||
===Answering the Questions for Rabbeinu Tam=== | ===Answering the Questions for Rabbeinu Tam=== | ||
