Transferring Taste: Difference between revisions
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# If an unbroken stream of hot liquids overflow from a pot on the fire<ref>Pri Megadim M"Z 92:26 raises the possibility that this definition of a stream even though it is on a cold surface is only if the stream is connected to a pot on the fire but not to a kli rishon off the fire. He concludes that one shouldn't be lenient even if it is off the fire.</ref> and go along a surface until it touches something it is considered an unbroken pour to transfer taste up to a peel.<ref>Trumat Hadeshen 181 and Rama 92:7. Chavot Daat 92:23 writes that even though the stream doesn't cool down since it isn't broken it doesn't cook (or boleh umaflit kechad) since it is on a cold surface.</ref> If the stream is broken it is considered a kli sheni.<ref>Trumat Hadeshen 181 and Rama 92:7. The Pri Megadim M"Z 92:26 explains that even though usually a broken stream can transfer taste up to a peel, since the stream ran along a cold surface if it is broken it is certainly considered a kli sheni. Badei Hashulchan 92:147 agrees.</ref> | # If an unbroken stream of hot liquids overflow from a pot on the fire<ref>Pri Megadim M"Z 92:26 raises the possibility that this definition of a stream even though it is on a cold surface is only if the stream is connected to a pot on the fire but not to a kli rishon off the fire. He concludes that one shouldn't be lenient even if it is off the fire.</ref> and go along a surface until it touches something it is considered an unbroken pour to transfer taste up to a peel.<ref>Trumat Hadeshen 181 and Rama 92:7. Chavot Daat 92:23 writes that even though the stream doesn't cool down since it isn't broken it doesn't cook (or boleh umaflit kechad) since it is on a cold surface.</ref> If the stream is broken it is considered a kli sheni.<ref>Trumat Hadeshen 181 and Rama 92:7. The Pri Megadim M"Z 92:26 explains that even though usually a broken stream can transfer taste up to a peel, since the stream ran along a cold surface if it is broken it is certainly considered a kli sheni. Badei Hashulchan 92:147 agrees.</ref> | ||
# A solid piece of food that is picked up on a fork or with one's hand is considered a kli rishon until it is placed on the plate or bowl. <ref>Badei Hashulchan 106:21 outlines three approaches as to why the food while in the air is still considered a kli rishon. 1) According to the Maharshal (Yam Shel Shlomo Gid Hanesheh 44, Kol Habasar 75) any solid food (Gush) is considered a kli rishon. 2) Solid food that is in the air that didn't land is considered a kli rishon.(Chazon Ish 9:5) 3) Any food that is in the air that didn't land is considered a kli rishon. (Shach 105:5)</ref> As it is being placed down on the plate or bowl that is considered iruy. After it settles it is considered a kli sheni.<ref>Shach 105:7 citing Darkei Moshe 105:4 clarifies that a hot food that is placed on a plate or bowl is considered iruy while it is being placed down. However, after it settles it is considered a kli sheni.</ref> | # A solid piece of food that is picked up on a fork or with one's hand is considered a kli rishon until it is placed on the plate or bowl. <ref>Badei Hashulchan 106:21 outlines three approaches as to why the food while in the air is still considered a kli rishon. 1) According to the Maharshal (Yam Shel Shlomo Gid Hanesheh 44, Kol Habasar 75) any solid food (Gush) is considered a kli rishon. 2) Solid food that is in the air that didn't land is considered a kli rishon.(Chazon Ish 9:5) 3) Any food that is in the air that didn't land is considered a kli rishon. (Shach 105:5)</ref> As it is being placed down on the plate or bowl that is considered iruy. After it settles it is considered a kli sheni.<ref>Shach 105:7 citing Darkei Moshe 105:4 clarifies that a hot food that is placed on a plate or bowl is considered iruy while it is being placed down. However, after it settles it is considered a kli sheni.</ref> | ||
==Cham Miksato Cham Kulo== | |||
#If a utensil is used to cook and only part of it is actively involved in the cooking, there is a multitude of opinions as to how to consider whether or not the taste was transferred throughout the utensil or not. | |||
##Rabbenu Perek cited by Tur 94:1 holds that the spoon absorbs the taste of the food throughout the spoon even though it was only dipped in the food partially. However, other rishonim argue that the spoon only possibly absorb the taste of the food up to the point that it was dipped in the food. Smak 213 cites the dispute. Baal Hatrumah 49 and Shaarei Dura 85 cited by Bet Yosef 94:1 are lenient. Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 94:1, Rama, and Shach 94:3 all hold leniently like the Sefer Hatrumah and Smak unlike Rabbenu Peretz. | |||
##If the entire kli is actually hot then the tastes from the food travel throughout the pot even the part that isn't being used. That's the opinion of the Badei Hashulchan 94:9, 14 based on based on Pri Megadim, Shach 69:64, Chavot Daat, Rabbi Akiva Eiger (OC MA 451:24). Chachmat Adam disagrees. | |||
## If the heat was dry heat i.e. it wasn't cooking, such as roasting, then it spreads throughout the kli (Shach 121:17, Badei Hashulchan 94:15). | |||
##The Magen Avraham 451:24 holds that if the taste goes in one part we're concerned that it spread throughout the utensil. Therefore, if one used it on any part of the utensil the forbidden taste can be transferred. However, if one did a hechsher on one side of the utensil and then one uses that side, there is not going to be a transfer of the forbidden taste from the other side exiting. If one did a hechsher on one side of the utensil and used another side, there is going to be a transfer of the forbidden taste even if that side wasn't used for the forbidden taste to begin with since the taste might have traveled in the utensil. Mishna Brurah 451:68 mentions this approach. | |||
# Does Cham Miksato Cham Kulo transfer from one utensil to another if they are attached? Magen Avraham OC 451:24 holds that it does transfer from one utensil to the other if they are attached, while Rabbi Akiva Eiger 451:24 disagrees. Radvaz teshuva 6:2308, Maharsham 3:112, and Darkei Teshuva YD 92:22 are strict like the Magen Avraham. Mor Ukesiya end of 451, Shaarei Hamesuyanim Bhalacha 116:10, and R' Elyashiv (Hagadah Shel Pesach p. 32, Kovetz Teshuvot 3:81) are lenient. These are all cited by Ohel Yakov Kashrut Lpesach p. 44. Dirshu 451:62 also cites the Chatom Sofer OC 130 and Minchat Yitzchak 5:81:11 as being lenient. It also cites Chut Shani Pesach 10:13 as being strict. | |||
# Chanan in kelim (YD 98:4). This dispute does not affect the dispute regarding chanan in kelim. The above dispute is regarding where the transfer of the taste exists, while chanan in kelim effects the other tastes absorbed in the walls becoming forbidden and becoming necessary to nullify. | |||
==Mavliya Umaflit K'echad== | ==Mavliya Umaflit K'echad== | ||
# According to the Taz a kli sheni can be mavliya or maflit but not both simultaneously.<ref>Taz 105:4</ref> | # According to the Taz a kli sheni can be mavliya or maflit but not both simultaneously.<ref>Taz 105:4</ref> | ||
