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Transferring Taste: Difference between revisions
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#A solid piece of food that is picked up on a fork or with one's hand is considered a kli rishon until it is placed on the plate or bowl.<ref>Badei Hashulchan 106:21 outlines three approaches as to why the food while in the air is still considered a kli rishon. 1) According to the Maharshal (Yam Shel Shlomo Gid Hanesheh 44, Kol Habasar 75) any solid food (Gush) is considered a kli rishon. 2) Solid food that is in the air that didn't land is considered a kli rishon.(Chazon Ish 9:5) 3) Any food that is in the air that didn't land is considered a kli rishon. (Shach 105:5)</ref> As it is being placed down on the plate or bowl that is considered iruy. After it settles it is considered a kli sheni.<ref>Shach 105:7 citing Darkei Moshe 105:4 clarifies that a hot food that is placed on a plate or bowl is considered iruy while it is being placed down. However, after it settles it is considered a kli sheni.</ref> | #A solid piece of food that is picked up on a fork or with one's hand is considered a kli rishon until it is placed on the plate or bowl.<ref>Badei Hashulchan 106:21 outlines three approaches as to why the food while in the air is still considered a kli rishon. 1) According to the Maharshal (Yam Shel Shlomo Gid Hanesheh 44, Kol Habasar 75) any solid food (Gush) is considered a kli rishon. 2) Solid food that is in the air that didn't land is considered a kli rishon.(Chazon Ish 9:5) 3) Any food that is in the air that didn't land is considered a kli rishon. (Shach 105:5)</ref> As it is being placed down on the plate or bowl that is considered iruy. After it settles it is considered a kli sheni.<ref>Shach 105:7 citing Darkei Moshe 105:4 clarifies that a hot food that is placed on a plate or bowl is considered iruy while it is being placed down. However, after it settles it is considered a kli sheni.</ref> | ||
==Iruy Shenifsak Hakiluach== | ==Iruy Shenifsak Hakiluach== | ||
#A broken stream of hot liquid (Heb. עירוי שנפסק הקילוח; trans. ''iruy sh'nifsak hakiluach'') poured from a kli rishon has the ability to transfer taste up to the thickness of a peel. Since the stream is broken it only has enough heat to heat up each side but not enough to heat it up and extract a taste and have it absorbed into the other side simultaneously (see [[#Mavliya Umaflit K'echad|further]] for this practically).<ref>Shach 105:5. See however Badei Hashulchan 92:184 that from Shach 92:38 it seems that a broken stream that was originally heated up by the fire is like a kli rishon. Though, Chazon Ish 9:6 cited by Badei Hashulchan maintains that a broken stream is never more than a klipah.</ref> | #A broken stream of hot liquid (Heb. עירוי שנפסק הקילוח; trans. ''iruy sh'nifsak hakiluach'') poured from a kli rishon has the ability to transfer taste up to the thickness of a peel. Since the stream is broken it only has enough heat to heat up each side but not enough to heat it up and extract a taste and have it absorbed into the other side simultaneously (see [[#Mavliya Umaflit K'echad|further]] for this practically).<ref>Shach 105:5. See however Badei Hashulchan 92:184 that from Shach 92:38 it seems that a broken stream that was originally heated up by the fire is like a kli rishon. Though, Chazon Ish YD 9:6 cited by Badei Hashulchan maintains that a broken stream is never more than a klipah. Also, although the opinion of the Rama as explained by the Chazon Ish is that iruy shenifsak hakiluach is like a kli sheni and has no impact, Badei Hashulchan 91:20 is strict and holds like the Shach.</ref> | ||
#If hot liquids overflow from a pot on the fire and stream along a surface until it touches something but it is a broken stream it is considered a kli sheni.<ref>Trumat Hadeshen 181 and Rama 92:7. The Pri Megadim M"Z 92:26 explains that even though usually a broken stream can transfer taste up to a peel, since the stream ran along a cold surface if it is broken it is certainly considered a kli sheni. Badei Hashulchan 92:147 agrees.</ref> | #If hot liquids overflow from a pot on the fire and stream along a surface until it touches something but it is a broken stream it is considered a kli sheni.<ref>Trumat Hadeshen 181 and Rama 92:7. The Pri Megadim M"Z 92:26 explains that even though usually a broken stream can transfer taste up to a peel, since the stream ran along a cold surface if it is broken it is certainly considered a kli sheni. Badei Hashulchan 92:147 agrees.</ref> | ||
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#A kli rishon that isn’t yad soledet bo one shouldn’t use initially for something that isn’t kosher. After the fact it could make something non-kosher up to a klipah.<ref>Pri Megadim M”Z 105:4 writes using a kli rishon even if it isn’t a yad soledet bo it is an issue even after the fact. That’s the implication of Torat Chatat 23:3 and 33:1. Badei Hashulchan 105:2 s.v. lechatchila cites the Pri Megadim and seems to agree.</ref> | #A kli rishon that isn’t yad soledet bo one shouldn’t use initially for something that isn’t kosher. After the fact it could make something non-kosher up to a klipah.<ref>Pri Megadim M”Z 105:4 writes using a kli rishon even if it isn’t a yad soledet bo it is an issue even after the fact. That’s the implication of Torat Chatat 23:3 and 33:1. Badei Hashulchan 105:2 s.v. lechatchila cites the Pri Megadim and seems to agree.</ref> | ||
#A kli sheni that isn’t yad soledet bo one shouldn’t use initially but after the fact it doesn’t make something non-kosher at all.<ref>Pri Megadim M”Z 105:4 writes that the Shach and Taz conclude that if a kli sheni isn’t yad soledet bo it doesn't make something forbidden at all after the fact. But initially it is an issue up to a klipah. Badei Hashulchan 105:2 s.v. lechatchila cites the Pri Megadim and seems to agree.</ref> | #A kli sheni that isn’t yad soledet bo one shouldn’t use initially but after the fact it doesn’t make something non-kosher at all.<ref>Pri Megadim M”Z 105:4 writes that the Shach and Taz conclude that if a kli sheni isn’t yad soledet bo it doesn't make something forbidden at all after the fact. But initially it is an issue up to a klipah. Badei Hashulchan 105:2 s.v. lechatchila cites the Pri Megadim and seems to agree.</ref> | ||
#Some hold that there are no transfer of tastes unless the food becomes Yad Soledet Bo, while most poskim disagree.<ref>Shach 105:5 says initially we're strict for the Rashba and Tur who say kli sheni is boleh even though it is not yad soledet bo. See above footnotes which also include various sources that are strict for non-soledet bo infusions of taste. However, Rav Mordechai Willig (Am Mordechai on | #Some hold that there are no transfer of tastes unless the food becomes Yad Soledet Bo, while most poskim disagree.<ref>Shach 105:5 says initially we're strict for the Rashba and Tur who say kli sheni is boleh even though it is not yad soledet bo. See above footnotes which also include various sources that are strict for non-soledet bo infusions of taste. However, Rav Mordechai Willig (Am Mordechai on Shulchan Aruch p. 89) elaborates on the idea that it is impossible for there to be a transfer of taste without two entities involved to be yad soledet bo.</ref> | ||
#If a food fell onto a hot surface and it was removed immediately some say that it is permitted as long as the piece didn't reach Yad Soledet Bo. Most others disagree.<ref>Pitchei Teshuva 105:8 cites the Chamudei Doniel that posits that if a cold piece fell on top of a hot piece it doesn't absorb the taste of the bottom piece immediately. Once it was left there for a little bit then it becomes forbidden. Maharsham 2:20 infers from Radvaz 1:223 that he accepts the Chamudei Doniel. Yet, he writes that he would only rely on the Chamudei Doniel if it was a question of rabbinic nature and there was another factor to rely upon. Darkei Halacha 94:4 quotes Even Shetiya YD 42 who limits the Chamudei Doniel two solids touching or a kli rishon off the fire but not for a spoon that was placed in a hot pot and removed immediately. Harei Besamim 3:56 similarly makes limitations on the Chamudei Doniel. </ref> | #If a food fell onto a hot surface and it was removed immediately some say that it is permitted as long as the piece didn't reach Yad Soledet Bo. Most others disagree.<ref>Pitchei Teshuva 105:8 cites the Chamudei Doniel that posits that if a cold piece fell on top of a hot piece it doesn't absorb the taste of the bottom piece immediately. Once it was left there for a little bit then it becomes forbidden. Maharsham 2:20 infers from Radvaz 1:223 that he accepts the Chamudei Doniel. Yet, he writes that he would only rely on the Chamudei Doniel if it was a question of rabbinic nature and there was another factor to rely upon. Darkei Halacha 94:4 quotes Even Shetiya YD 42 who limits the Chamudei Doniel two solids touching or a kli rishon off the fire but not for a spoon that was placed in a hot pot and removed immediately. Harei Besamim 3:56 similarly makes limitations on the Chamudei Doniel. </ref> | ||
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