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Transferring Taste: Difference between revisions
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==Iruy== | ==Iruy== | ||
# If something forbidden is poured onto something permitted or the opposite or meat and milk, the pour can transfer a taste up to the thickness of a peel.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 91:4, Shach 105:5</ref> The thickness of a peel is the amount that it could be peeled at one time.<ref>Badei Hashulchan 91:30</ref> | |||
# If the stream is unbroken there is enough heat to heat up each side and completely transfer tastes one to another. If the stream is broken there is only enough heat to heat up each side but not enough to heat it up and extract a taste and have it absorbed into the other side simultaneously.<ref>Shach 105:5. See however Badei Hashulchan 92:184 that from Shach 92:38 it seems that a broken stream that was originally heated up by the fire is like a kli rishon. Though, Chazon Ish 9:6 cited by Badei Hashulchan maintains that a broken stream is never more than a klipah.</ref> For example, if hot water in a broken stream poured onto cold cheese which was sitting on a meat dish the cheese and the dish are kosher.<ref>Igrot Moshe YD 1:42:1, Rama 95:3. Ateret Moshe Aharon p. 242 provides three examples of what it means that something doesn't mavliya umaflit k'eched. (1) Taste doesn't transfer from one solid to another solid (Pri Megadim M"Z 105:4). (2) Taste doesn't transfer from one solid to another through a liquid (Dagul Mirvava 105:3). (3) Taste doesn't transfer from a liquid to a liquid through a solid (Chavot Daat 92:22).</ref> Another example is that it is permitted to pour with a broken stream hot water on chickens which weren't salted since the heat of the stream isn't enough to heat up the blood and to have it get absorbed into the chicken.<ref>Shach 105:5</ref> | |||
# If an unbroken stream of hot liquids overflow from a pot on the fire<ref>Pri Megadim M"Z 92:26 raises the possibility that this definition of a stream even though it is on a cold surface is only if the stream is connected to a pot on the fire but not to a kli rishon off the fire. He concludes that one shouldn't be lenient even if it is off the fire.</ref> and go along a surface until it touches something it is considered an unbroken pour to transfer taste up to a peel. If the stream is broken it is considered a kli sheni.<ref>Trumat Hadeshen 181 and Rama 92:7. The Pri Megadim M"Z 92:26 explains that even though usually a broken stream can transfer taste up to a peel, since the stream ran along a cold surface if it is broken it is certainly considered a kli sheni. Badei Hashulchan 92:147 agrees.</ref> | |||
# A solid piece of food that is picked up on a fork or with one's hand is considered a kli rishon until it is placed on the plate or bowl. <ref>Badei Hashulchan 106:21 outlines three approaches as to why the food while in the air is still considered a kli rishon. 1) According to the Maharshal (Yam Shel Shlomo Gid Hanesheh 44, Kol Habasar 75) any solid food (Gush) is considered a kli rishon. 2) Solid food that is in the air that didn't land is considered a kli rishon.(Chazon Ish 9:5) 3) Any food that is in the air that didn't land is considered a kli rishon. (Shach 105:5)</ref> As it is being placed down on the plate or bowl that is considered iruy. After it settles it is considered a kli sheni.<ref>Shach 105:7 citing Darkei Moshe 105:4 clarifies that a hot food that is placed on a plate or bowl is considered iruy while it is being placed down. However, after it settles it is considered a kli sheni.</ref> | # A solid piece of food that is picked up on a fork or with one's hand is considered a kli rishon until it is placed on the plate or bowl. <ref>Badei Hashulchan 106:21 outlines three approaches as to why the food while in the air is still considered a kli rishon. 1) According to the Maharshal (Yam Shel Shlomo Gid Hanesheh 44, Kol Habasar 75) any solid food (Gush) is considered a kli rishon. 2) Solid food that is in the air that didn't land is considered a kli rishon.(Chazon Ish 9:5) 3) Any food that is in the air that didn't land is considered a kli rishon. (Shach 105:5)</ref> As it is being placed down on the plate or bowl that is considered iruy. After it settles it is considered a kli sheni.<ref>Shach 105:7 citing Darkei Moshe 105:4 clarifies that a hot food that is placed on a plate or bowl is considered iruy while it is being placed down. However, after it settles it is considered a kli sheni.</ref> | ||
==Not Yad Soledet Bo== | ==Not Yad Soledet Bo== | ||
# A kli rishon that isn’t yad soledet bo one shouldn’t use initially for something that isn’t kosher. After the fact it could make something non-kosher up to a klipah.<ref>Pri Megadim M”Z 105:4 writes using a kli rishon even if it isn’t a yad soledet bo it is an issue even after the fact. That’s the implication of Torat Chatat 23:3 and 33:1. Badei Hashulchan 105:2 s.v. lechatchila cites the Pri Megadim and seems to agree.</ref> | # A kli rishon that isn’t yad soledet bo one shouldn’t use initially for something that isn’t kosher. After the fact it could make something non-kosher up to a klipah.<ref>Pri Megadim M”Z 105:4 writes using a kli rishon even if it isn’t a yad soledet bo it is an issue even after the fact. That’s the implication of Torat Chatat 23:3 and 33:1. Badei Hashulchan 105:2 s.v. lechatchila cites the Pri Megadim and seems to agree.</ref> | ||
# A kli sheni that isn’t yad soledet bo one shouldn’t use initially but after the fact it doesn’t make something non-kosher at all.<ref>Pri Megadim M”Z 105:4 writes that the Shach and Taz conclude that if a kli sheni isn’t yad soledet bo it doesn't make something forbidden at all after the fact. But initially it is an issue up to a klipah. Badei Hashulchan 105:2 s.v. lechatchila cites the Pri Megadim and seems to agree.</ref> | # A kli sheni that isn’t yad soledet bo one shouldn’t use initially but after the fact it doesn’t make something non-kosher at all.<ref>Pri Megadim M”Z 105:4 writes that the Shach and Taz conclude that if a kli sheni isn’t yad soledet bo it doesn't make something forbidden at all after the fact. But initially it is an issue up to a klipah. Badei Hashulchan 105:2 s.v. lechatchila cites the Pri Megadim and seems to agree.</ref> | ||
==Roasting (Tzeli)== | |||
# Roasting something forbidden together with something permitted will make the permitted thing forbidden up to the thickness of a [[Etzbah]] where they touched.<ref>There are three opinions of how far roasting can transfer taste. The Rashba thinks that essentially it could only transfer up to the thickness of a peel. But he is strict for the opinion of Tosfot for any question of Biblical nature. Tosfot Chullin 99b s.v. ad and Rosh Chullin 7:24 hold that it could transfer up to the thickness of a netila, which is an [[Etzbah]]. Lastly, the Ri Halavan (cited by) holds that roasting can transfer taste completely just like cooking. Shulchan Aruch follows the Rashba. Maharshal follows the Ri Halavan but the Shach disagrees.</ref> | |||
# A food which absorbed a taste of something forbidden can't forbid something else with roasting unless it is fatty. Ashkenazim assume that all foods might be fatty.<ref>The Rashba cited by Shulchan Aruch 105:7 holds that taste absorbed in a food can't impart taste with roasting unless it is fatty. Maharshal in Yam Shel Shlomo Chullin 7:45 and Isur Vheter LMaharshal siman 37 writes that ein beluah yotzei blo rotev only applies to tata gavar or two pieces next to one another but it doesn't apply to tzeli or melicha. He explains that he is following the Ri Halavan that tzeli and melicha transfer taste completely just like cooking. Shach 105:18 quotes the Maharshal and disagrees.</ref> | |||
==Sources== | ==Sources== | ||
<references/> | <references/> | ||
