Tochen: Difference between revisions
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===How Small is Small?=== | ===How Small is Small?=== | ||
# It is forbidden to cut vegetables into small pieces.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 6:6</ref> | # It is forbidden to cut vegetables into small pieces.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 6:6</ref> | ||
# It is permitted to cut vegetables into pieces that are somewhat large immediately before the meal.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 6:6</ref> What is considered somewhat large? As long as the pieces are larger than one does during the week it is permitted to cut it right before the meal.<ref>Dor Hamelaktim v. 5 p. 2914 citing Chazon Ish 57 s.v. vheneh, Brit Olam (Tochen 20), Az Nidbaru 11:8, 12:22, Shabbos Kitchen ch. 9 fnt. 19, Rivevot Efraim 5:260:3, Hilchos Shabbos (Rav Eider fnt. 91)</ref> | # It is permitted to cut vegetables into pieces that are somewhat large immediately before the meal.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 6:6</ref> What is considered somewhat large? As long as the pieces are larger than one does during the week it is permitted to cut it right before the meal.<ref>39 Melachos v. 2 p. 460, Dor Hamelaktim v. 5 p. 2914 citing Chazon Ish 57 s.v. vheneh, Brit Olam (Tochen 20), Az Nidbaru 11:8, 12:22, Shabbos Kitchen ch. 9 fnt. 19, Rivevot Efraim 5:260:3, Hilchos Shabbos (Rav Eider fnt. 91)</ref> | ||
# It is permitted to cut vegetables into large pieces even far in advance of a meal.<ref>Dor Hamelaktim v. 5 p. 2913</ref> What is considered large pieces? | # It is permitted to cut vegetables into large pieces even far in advance of a meal.<ref>Dor Hamelaktim v. 5 p. 2913</ref> What is considered large pieces? | ||
## Some say that pieces that are larger than one usually cuts them is considered large. Inversely, some say that anything a cook or housewife would consider 'very small' is considered small. | ## Some say that pieces that are larger than one usually cuts them is considered large. Inversely, some say that anything a cook or housewife would consider 'very small' is considered small. | ||
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* Rav Belsky (OU Documents S-34) as holding that the size for tochen is cutting it smaller than one usually cuts. They also quote Rav Elyashiv (Am Mekadshei Sheviyi 1:6:4) and Hilchos Shabbos (Rav Eider fnt. 39) who concur. | * Rav Belsky (OU Documents S-34) as holding that the size for tochen is cutting it smaller than one usually cuts. They also quote Rav Elyashiv (Am Mekadshei Sheviyi 1:6:4) and Hilchos Shabbos (Rav Eider fnt. 39) who concur. | ||
* Yashiv Moshe (Nishmat Shabbat 315:2) and the Shabbos Kitchen (p. 130) write that cutting it to whatever is considered by people to be very small is a problem of tochen. | * Yashiv Moshe (Nishmat Shabbat 315:2) and the Shabbos Kitchen (p. 130) write that cutting it to whatever is considered by people to be very small is a problem of tochen. | ||
* Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata ch. 6 fnt. 6, Minchat Shlomo 1:91:13, Shulchan Shlomo 321:13:2) holds that as long as one needs to chew on it to eat it it is considered a small piece. Minchat Ish 3:4:4 s.v. vheneh explains that he doesn't mean that if it is big enough that would one need to chew it then it is considered big and it is permitted to cut it to that size, rather he is just coming to say that if it is a little small then it has made the chewing process easier and is considered tochen. | * Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata ch. 6 fnt. 6, Minchat Shlomo 1:91:13, Shulchan Shlomo 321:13:2) holds that as long as one needs to chew on it to eat it it is considered a small piece. Minchat Ish 3:4:4 s.v. vheneh explains that he doesn't mean that if it is big enough that would one need to chew it then it is considered big and it is permitted to cut it to that size, rather he is just coming to say that if it is a little small then it has made the chewing process easier and is considered tochen. 39 Melachos v. 2 p. 458 seems to apply Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach's opinion to permit cutting any salad since it will still need to be chewed, however, he concludes that we do not follow that opinion. | ||
* Lastly, they cite Zachor Vshamor (Tochen 2) who says that if the pieces are larger than .5 cm^3 it is certainly not considered very small.</ref> | * Lastly, they cite Zachor Vshamor (Tochen 2) who says that if the pieces are larger than .5 cm^3 it is certainly not considered very small.</ref> | ||
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#It's forbidden to crush a banana or avocado unless it's already so soft that when one pulls a part of the fruit, that part separates from the rest of the fruit. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:7 </ref> | #It's forbidden to crush a banana or avocado unless it's already so soft that when one pulls a part of the fruit, that part separates from the rest of the fruit. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:7 </ref> | ||
#There is a debate amongst the Poskim if the prohibition of Tochen applies to fruit or vegetables such as bananas and avocados which when mashed do not separate into individual pieces but rather just change shape and remain one large mass. Therefore, it is better to do so with a shinui.<ref>The Tosefta (Beitza 1:19) says that "Pressed or dried figs cannot be crushed before the elderly." The Chazon Ish (57, “nimtzeinu”) writes that when pressed or dried figs are crushed, they remain one mass, and therefore even in such a case tochen is applicable. In light of this, the Chazon Ish writes that it is forbidden to mash a banana even though it remains one mass, even for immediate eating (lishitaso with above about immediate eating). Therefore, he says one must do so with a shinui. However, Rav Moshe Feinstein (Iggerot Moshe OC 4:74:Tochen 2) rules that they are not subject to the prohibition of Tochen and may be mashed in the regular manner. He says even if we accept that the prohibition applies even for immediate eating, it is only applicable when one takes one body and turns it into smaller components. However, taking a substance and mashing it while it remains one mass isn’t a problem. He nevertheless concludes that if possible, one should do it with a shinui to be machmir for the Chazon Ish. Rabbi Ribiat (“The 39 Melochos” pg. 461) sides with Rav Moshe. Chacham Ovadia Yosef (Yechave Daat 5:27), though he agrees that mashing is included in tochen, permits one to mash a banana with a fork to feed immediately to a child. Rabbi Moshe Halevi (Menuchat Ahava 2: pg. 278), writes that he should preferably do so in an unusual manner, such as by using the handle of the fork. Shemirat Shabbos Kehilchita 6:7-8 forbids mashing a banana or avocado unless one uses a shinui. <br /> </ref> | #There is a debate amongst the Poskim if the prohibition of Tochen applies to fruit or vegetables such as bananas and avocados which when mashed do not separate into individual pieces but rather just change shape and remain one large mass. Therefore, it is better to do so with a shinui.<ref>The Tosefta (Beitza 1:19) says that "Pressed or dried figs cannot be crushed before the elderly." The Chazon Ish (57, “nimtzeinu”) writes that when pressed or dried figs are crushed, they remain one mass, and therefore even in such a case tochen is applicable. In light of this, the Chazon Ish writes that it is forbidden to mash a banana even though it remains one mass, even for immediate eating (lishitaso with above about immediate eating). Therefore, he says one must do so with a shinui. However, Rav Moshe Feinstein (Iggerot Moshe OC 4:74:Tochen 2) rules that they are not subject to the prohibition of Tochen and may be mashed in the regular manner. He says even if we accept that the prohibition applies even for immediate eating, it is only applicable when one takes one body and turns it into smaller components. However, taking a substance and mashing it while it remains one mass isn’t a problem. He nevertheless concludes that if possible, one should do it with a shinui to be machmir for the Chazon Ish. Rabbi Ribiat (“The 39 Melochos” pg. 461) sides with Rav Moshe. Chacham Ovadia Yosef (Yechave Daat 5:27), though he agrees that mashing is included in tochen, permits one to mash a banana with a fork to feed immediately to a child. Rabbi Moshe Halevi (Menuchat Ahava 2: pg. 278), writes that he should preferably do so in an unusual manner, such as by using the handle of the fork. Shemirat Shabbos Kehilchita 6:7-8 forbids mashing a banana or avocado unless one uses a shinui. <br /> </ref> | ||
# Some say it is permitted to ask a non-Jew to cut up vegetables Friday night after the meal or Shabbat morning for lunch even though it isn't for immediate consumption.<ref>[https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=128698 Rav Yitzchak Yosef (Motzei Shabbat Lech Lecha 5781, min 41-52)] explains that it is permitted to ask a non-Jew to chop up vegetables for a salad for lunch far in advance since there are some opinions in the rishonim who would permit it since the vegetables were edible raw. </ref> | |||
==Cooked Fruits and Vegetables== | ==Cooked Fruits and Vegetables== | ||
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#Salt granules which solidified because of a moisture may be crushed on [[Shabbat]], however, one may not crush salt crystals (looking like blocks) or any other spice which has never yet been crushed unless one does two Shinui's (changes) by using the handle of the knife or fork on a plate or the table. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:11 </ref> | #Salt granules which solidified because of a moisture may be crushed on [[Shabbat]], however, one may not crush salt crystals (looking like blocks) or any other spice which has never yet been crushed unless one does two Shinui's (changes) by using the handle of the knife or fork on a plate or the table. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:11 </ref> | ||
#Food which was crushed very well before [[Shabbat]] or on [[Shabbat]] in a permissible may may be further cut on [[Shabbat]] even in the normal fashion. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:12 </ref> | #Food which was crushed very well before [[Shabbat]] or on [[Shabbat]] in a permissible may may be further cut on [[Shabbat]] even in the normal fashion. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:12 </ref> | ||
# | #If someone made farina or rice porridge before Shabbat and now on Shabbat it is dry, one may pour hot water even from a ''Kli Rishon'' onto the farina or rice porridge to dilute it and mix it up. One may even crush the clumps with a spoon.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:13 </ref> To make farina as a thin mixture that pours from scratch on Shabbat one should make a change in how the ingredients are put in. If the farina is usually put in first and the water, on Shabbat one should first put in the water first and then the farina and vice versa.<ref>Divarecha Yair 3:14 writes that farina or cream of wheat is usually made as a thin batter food and so it only needs a shinuy in the order of putting in the ingredients.</ref> | ||
==Foods which don't grow from the ground== | ==Foods which don't grow from the ground== | ||
