Bots, Bureaucrats, Interface administrators, Suppressors, Administrators, wiki-admin, wiki-controller, wiki-editor, wiki-reader
1,231
edits
Tefisat Yedey Adam: Difference between revisions
From Halachipedia
→Why is Tefisat Yadey Adam invalid?
| (One intermediate revision by the same user not shown) | |||
| Line 12: | Line 12: | ||
==Why is Tefisat Yadey Adam invalid?== | ==Why is Tefisat Yadey Adam invalid?== | ||
*The [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8785&pgnum=116 Raavad Baalei Hanefesh p. 116] (Bookwald 3:4 p. 147) quotes an opinion who explains that water drawn by a person is a form of sheuvim. He explains that in the Torah it never says that drawn water is invalid if it is placed in a vessel, it is invalid anytime it isn’t natural like a spring, whether the water is drawn with a vessel or by a person. From the last versions of Raavad it is clear that originally he treated the water completely like sheuvim that invalidate a mikveh with 3 lugin. However, in his conclusion he held that it is only invalid if majority of the mikveh is from this water, and it isn't completely like sheuvim. The Rash (Mikvaot 2:6) writes that the water a person draws is like sheuvim. Rashba (Torat Habayit Shaar Hamayim 5, p. 494), Rosh (Mikvaot 2:6), Rambam (Pirush Mishnayot 2:6), Trumat Hadeshen 254, Bet Yosef 201:15(4) agree that tefisat yedey adam | *The [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8785&pgnum=116 Raavad Baalei Hanefesh p. 116] (Bookwald 3:4 p. 147) quotes an opinion who explains that water drawn by a person is a form of sheuvim. He explains that in the Torah it never says that drawn water is invalid if it is placed in a vessel, it is invalid anytime it isn’t natural like a spring, whether the water is drawn with a vessel or by a person. From the last versions of Raavad it is clear that originally he treated the water completely like sheuvim that invalidate a mikveh with 3 lugin. However, in his conclusion he held that it is only invalid if majority of the mikveh is from this water, and it isn't completely like sheuvim. The Rash (Mikvaot 2:6) writes that the water a person draws is like sheuvim. Rashba (Torat Habayit Shaar Hamayim 5, p. 494, Teshuvot Meyuchasot Lramban 231), Rosh (Mikvaot 2:6), Rambam (Pirush Mishnayot 2:6), Trumat Hadeshen 254, and Bet Yosef 201:15(4) agree that tefisat yedey adam makes the water sheuvim. The translation of the Rambam in the Mechon Hameor edition of Rambam p. 564 fnt. 15 this point is even clearer. This is also the opinon of Mishnah Achronah 2:6, Tiferet Yisrael (Boaz 2:5), Aruch Hashulchan 201:120, Chelkat Binyamin 201:270, and Chazon Ish YD 130:9 explaining the Ramban, Rash, Rosh, and Rashba. | ||
*The Raavad himself says he doesn't think it is sheuvim but nonetheless invalid if you have intention to draw the water into the mikveh. Rabbi Akiva Eiger (Bookwald edition p. 149) thinks this is a deoritta invalidation, while the fuller text seems to indicate that is only rabbinic (p. 149 fnt. 18). | *The Raavad himself says he doesn't think it is sheuvim, but nonetheless invalid if you have intention to draw the water into the mikveh. Rabbi Akiva Eiger (Bookwald edition p. 149) thinks this is a deoritta invalidation, while the fuller text seems to indicate that is only rabbinic (p. 149 fnt. 18). | ||
*Zichron Yosef YD 13 explains that water that is drawn by a person is considered havaya al yadey dvar hamekabel tumah since a person is mekabel tumah. The invalidation is a derivation in Zevachim 25b. He explains that it is considered havaya al yadey dvar hamekabel tumah even if you’re not touching the water. His proof is that the Rosh Mikvaot 5:5 codified by Shulchan Aruch 201:48 writes that a person holding a board on which the water flows into the mikveh is havaya al yadey dvar hamekabel tumah. Taz 201:58 agrees that a person is mekabel tumah and would create this invalidation. This is evident in Mishna Parah 6:4. However, according to the rishonim and achronim above this isn't the only invalidation of tefisat yedey adam. | *Zichron Yosef YD 13 explains that water that is drawn by a person is considered havaya al yadey dvar hamekabel tumah since a person is mekabel tumah. The invalidation is a derivation in Zevachim 25b. He explains that it is considered havaya al yadey dvar hamekabel tumah even if you’re not touching the water. His proof is that the Rosh Mikvaot 5:5 codified by Shulchan Aruch 201:48 writes that a person holding a board on which the water flows into the mikveh is havaya al yadey dvar hamekabel tumah. Taz 201:58 agrees that a person is mekabel tumah and would create this invalidation. This is evident in Mishna Parah 6:4. However, according to the rishonim and achronim above this isn't the only invalidation of tefisat yedey adam. | ||
**Yet, according to the Rambam (Mikvaot 6:2 as pointed out by the Bet Yosef YD 201:48) this invalidation of havaya al yedey dvar hamekabel tumah is only true for mayim chayim and not a mikveh. | **Yet, according to the Rambam (Mikvaot 6:2 as pointed out by the Bet Yosef YD 201:48) this invalidation of havaya al yedey dvar hamekabel tumah is only true for mayim chayim and not a mikveh. | ||
| Line 69: | Line 69: | ||
#Using certain types of pumps where the water doesn't come immediately is considered grama and not tefisat yadey adam.<ref>Rabbi Akiva Eiger ([https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37194&st=&pgnum=260 Derush Vchidush Ketamim]) writes that water pumped up by a person isn’t considered tefisat yadey adam since at the time of when one pulls up the pump nothing happens to the water directly. He calls it grama. This is quoted by the [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8197&st=&pgnum=215 Lechem Vsimla (210:145)] and Divrei Yosef p. 147-8. Zichron Yosef YD 13 is lenient regarding using a pump since it is a koach kocho which isn’t considered like a maaseh of a person.</ref> Also, even if the water comes immediately once the first gush of water is tefisat yad adam and the rest is considered grama.<ref>Taharat Mayim siman 24 quotes this from the Aruch Hashulchan 201:75.</ref> | #Using certain types of pumps where the water doesn't come immediately is considered grama and not tefisat yadey adam.<ref>Rabbi Akiva Eiger ([https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37194&st=&pgnum=260 Derush Vchidush Ketamim]) writes that water pumped up by a person isn’t considered tefisat yadey adam since at the time of when one pulls up the pump nothing happens to the water directly. He calls it grama. This is quoted by the [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8197&st=&pgnum=215 Lechem Vsimla (210:145)] and Divrei Yosef p. 147-8. Zichron Yosef YD 13 is lenient regarding using a pump since it is a koach kocho which isn’t considered like a maaseh of a person.</ref> Also, even if the water comes immediately once the first gush of water is tefisat yad adam and the rest is considered grama.<ref>Taharat Mayim siman 24 quotes this from the Aruch Hashulchan 201:75.</ref> | ||
#A pump powered by wind or water to pump water into a mikveh isn't tefisat yad adam after the first gush of water.<ref>Chazon Ish Mikvaot Tinyana 3:17 writes that the water comes with koach rishon is considered coming because of a person, but water that comes with koach sheni (water that wouldn't come if the pump was opened and closed immediately) is grama. Ben Ish Chai (Hod Yosef 71) quotes Dvar Moshe 24 who writes that koach kocho is not an issue for tefisat yad adam. His proof is from a person riding an animal isn't tefisat yad adam (Tosefta 3:3). The reason is that the water moving is koach kocho of the rider. Maharam Shik 196 brings the same proof. However, Ben Ish Chai rejects the proof because animals walk on their own, so the animal moving isn't because of a person. </ref> | #A pump powered by wind or water to pump water into a mikveh isn't tefisat yad adam after the first gush of water.<ref>Chazon Ish Mikvaot Tinyana 3:17 writes that the water comes with koach rishon is considered coming because of a person, but water that comes with koach sheni (water that wouldn't come if the pump was opened and closed immediately) is grama. Ben Ish Chai (Hod Yosef 71) quotes Dvar Moshe 24 who writes that koach kocho is not an issue for tefisat yad adam. His proof is from a person riding an animal isn't tefisat yad adam (Tosefta 3:3). The reason is that the water moving is koach kocho of the rider. Maharam Shik 196 brings the same proof. However, Ben Ish Chai rejects the proof because animals walk on their own, so the animal moving isn't because of a person. </ref> | ||
#An electric pump according to many poskim is considered tefisat yad adam.<ref>Har Tzvi 177 writes that an electric pump is tefisat yad adam as long as it is pumping and is not grama at all. See Minchat Yitzchak 1:146:16 who writes that using electricity to move water isn't such an issue of tefisat yad adam. Note, that he didn't write this to rule leniently on the issue. </ref> | |||
#Melting ice with hot metal boards isn’t an issue of tefisat yadey adam since it is grama.<ref>Maharsham 1:200 writes that melting ice with hot metal boards isn’t tefisat yadey adam since it is a grama. Chatom Sofer 1:200, Maharam Shik 196, and Nachal Eshkol 53 agree.</ref> | #Melting ice with hot metal boards isn’t an issue of tefisat yadey adam since it is grama.<ref>Maharsham 1:200 writes that melting ice with hot metal boards isn’t tefisat yadey adam since it is a grama. Chatom Sofer 1:200, Maharam Shik 196, and Nachal Eshkol 53 agree.</ref> | ||
#If the water was drawn into a mikveh using an indirect or delayed reaction according to some poskim it is valid as it wasn’t drawn by a person directly.<ref>See discussion of pump above. Rabbi Akiva Eiger in Drush Vchidush cited by Lechem Vsimla 201:145 and Divrei Yosef p. 147 held that grama doesn’t make tefisat yadey adam. Maharit 17 also writes that anything which is pushed only with a koach sheni it is considered a grama and not an issue of tefisat yadey adam. Therefore, he writes that water that was drawn from a river into a mikveh using a water mill with buckets that had holes in them is kosher. Zichron Yosef 13 also writes that koach kocho doesn’t create tefisat yadey adam. Ben Ish Chai in Hod Yosef 71 writes that koach kocho is a discussion by shechita and to avoid the opinion of the Tevuot Shor if it is a koach koach kocho it isn’t considered tefisat yadey adam. Divrei Yosef p. 148 supports this approach by saying that as long as the water isn’t naturally drawn into the mikveh it is invalid.</ref> | #If the water was drawn into a mikveh using an indirect or delayed reaction according to some poskim it is valid as it wasn’t drawn by a person directly.<ref>See discussion of pump above. Rabbi Akiva Eiger in Drush Vchidush cited by Lechem Vsimla 201:145 and Divrei Yosef p. 147 held that grama doesn’t make tefisat yadey adam. Maharit 17 also writes that anything which is pushed only with a koach sheni it is considered a grama and not an issue of tefisat yadey adam. Therefore, he writes that water that was drawn from a river into a mikveh using a water mill with buckets that had holes in them is kosher. Zichron Yosef 13 also writes that koach kocho doesn’t create tefisat yadey adam. Ben Ish Chai in Hod Yosef 71 writes that koach kocho is a discussion by shechita and to avoid the opinion of the Tevuot Shor if it is a koach koach kocho it isn’t considered tefisat yadey adam. Divrei Yosef p. 148 supports this approach by saying that as long as the water isn’t naturally drawn into the mikveh it is invalid.</ref> | ||
