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Taking Interest: Difference between revisions
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→Yatza Hashaar
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# The borrower needs to actually own some of the commodity to permit this transaction and it isn't enough that people owe his some of that commodity.<ref>Gemara Bava Metsia 63b, Shulchan Aruch 160:2</ref> If the borrower has some of that commodity that is deposited with someone else that is sufficient to consider him yesh lo.<ref>Bet Yosef YD 162:2 writes that an item deposited with someone else (Pikadon) wherever it is is considered yours that it should be considered yesh lo for seah bseah. Tosfot Bava Metsia 6a writes that a person owns his pikadon can he sanctify it.</ref> If the borrower has some of that commodity but he borrowed it previously in a permitted fashion, some poskim say that it is sufficient to consider it yesh lo.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 160:2 holds that if he borrowed the commodity it is considered yesh lo since currently it is his. However, in Bet Yosef it is clear he is disagreeing with the Talmid Harashba who says it isn't yesh lo since he is going to have to return it. Bach 160:2 sides with the Talmid Harashba. Shach 160:8 follows the Bach. Taz 160:4 differentiates between where the original loan was made separately from the loan in which case it is yesh lo, whereas if the permitted loan was done only to permit the later loan which isn't yesh lo.</ref> | # The borrower needs to actually own some of the commodity to permit this transaction and it isn't enough that people owe his some of that commodity.<ref>Gemara Bava Metsia 63b, Shulchan Aruch 160:2</ref> If the borrower has some of that commodity that is deposited with someone else that is sufficient to consider him yesh lo.<ref>Bet Yosef YD 162:2 writes that an item deposited with someone else (Pikadon) wherever it is is considered yours that it should be considered yesh lo for seah bseah. Tosfot Bava Metsia 6a writes that a person owns his pikadon can he sanctify it.</ref> If the borrower has some of that commodity but he borrowed it previously in a permitted fashion, some poskim say that it is sufficient to consider it yesh lo.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 160:2 holds that if he borrowed the commodity it is considered yesh lo since currently it is his. However, in Bet Yosef it is clear he is disagreeing with the Talmid Harashba who says it isn't yesh lo since he is going to have to return it. Bach 160:2 sides with the Talmid Harashba. Shach 160:8 follows the Bach. Taz 160:4 differentiates between where the original loan was made separately from the loan in which case it is yesh lo, whereas if the permitted loan was done only to permit the later loan which isn't yesh lo.</ref> | ||
===Yatza Hashaar=== | ===Yatza Hashaar=== | ||
# If there is a price that is fixed in the marketplace for that commodity it is permitted to lend that commodity.<ref>The Bahag read the Gemara Bava Metsia 72b as saying that it is permitted to lend a commodity if there is a fixed marketplace price. Rashi and Tosfot s.v. ein cite the Bahag. Rif 43a and Rambam Malveh Vloveh 10:1 agree. Tur and Shulchan Aruch 162:3 codify the Bahag.</ref> | |||
# It must be known to both parties that there is a fixed price in the marketplace for that commodity.<ref>Rambam Malveh Vloveh 10:1 writes that the lender and borrower need to know the marketplace price in order to employ that leniency. Bet Yosef 162 explains that if they don't know of the marketplace price it appears as though they are intending to take interest.</ref> | |||
# It isn't necessary for the borrower to have the money needed to buy the grain in the marketplace as long as there is a marketplace price it is permitted.<Ref>The Baal Hatrumot 46:5:5 cites the Raavad (see Malveh Vloveh 10:1) who holds that in order to apply the leniency of the marketplace price being established for seah bseah it is necessary for the borrower to have the money available to be able to buy the grain to repay the loan. Tosfot b"m 72b s.v. ein agrees. However, most rishonim disagree including the Rambam Malveh Vloveh 10:1, Rif 43a, and Ramban b"m 72b s.v. ein. Bet Yosef 162:3 and Shach 162:10 rule like most rishonim unlike the Raavad.</ref> | |||
===One Commodity for Another Commodity=== | ===One Commodity for Another Commodity=== | ||
# If one lends one commodity for another commodity of the equivalent value it is forbidden perhaps the value of commodity that needs to be returned will increase in price. This is forbidden even if the borrower has some or all of the quantity of the commodity necessary to repay the loan and it is forbidden even if the marketplace price for the commodity to be returned is fixed.<Ref>The Raavad cited by Baal Hatrumot 46:5:7 and Tur 162:5 explains that the leniencies of seah bseah only apply when one is borrowing one commodity to repay that same commodity. However, if one repays another commodity it is forbidden even if it is yesh lo and yatza hashaar. Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 162:5 codifies the opinion of the Raavad. The Perisha 162:21 explains that when one repays a loan with the same commodity it doesn't appear as interest since the difference in price between the loan and repayment isn't viewed as significant. However, once the repayment is in another commodity it is viewed as interest. Therefore, the leniencies of seah bseah don't apply here. Similarly, Netivot Shalom 162:5 explains that once one is trying to gain another commodity it appears as though one is investing in order to gain, however, when one lends one commodity to get back the same quantity of that commodity it doesn't appear as though one is trying to invest. Chelkat Binyamin interprets the Levush 162:5 as explaining that since the difference between the prices is relative and can change yatza hashaar doesn't help. Additionally, since the second commodity isn't a complete payment of the first commodity even yesh lo is insufficient.</ref> | # If one lends one commodity for another commodity of the equivalent value it is forbidden perhaps the value of commodity that needs to be returned will increase in price. This is forbidden even if the borrower has some or all of the quantity of the commodity necessary to repay the loan and it is forbidden even if the marketplace price for the commodity to be returned is fixed.<Ref>The Raavad cited by Baal Hatrumot 46:5:7 and Tur 162:5 explains that the leniencies of seah bseah only apply when one is borrowing one commodity to repay that same commodity. However, if one repays another commodity it is forbidden even if it is yesh lo and yatza hashaar. Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 162:5 codifies the opinion of the Raavad. The Perisha 162:21 explains that when one repays a loan with the same commodity it doesn't appear as interest since the difference in price between the loan and repayment isn't viewed as significant. However, once the repayment is in another commodity it is viewed as interest. Therefore, the leniencies of seah bseah don't apply here. Similarly, Netivot Shalom 162:5 explains that once one is trying to gain another commodity it appears as though one is investing in order to gain, however, when one lends one commodity to get back the same quantity of that commodity it doesn't appear as though one is trying to invest. Chelkat Binyamin interprets the Levush 162:5 as explaining that since the difference between the prices is relative and can change yatza hashaar doesn't help. Additionally, since the second commodity isn't a complete payment of the first commodity even yesh lo is insufficient.</ref> | ||
