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Standing for Talmidei Chachamim and the Elderly: Difference between revisions

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Standing for Talmidei Chachamim and the Elderly (view source)

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# For an elder or Talmid Chacham, one should stand up completely, not just partially.<ref> Tur 244, Taz 244:4, Gra 244:11, Chaye Adam 69:4, Kavod Vehiddur p. 64, and Sh”t Yabia Omer 3:13 write that one should stand completely for an elder just like one stands completely for a Talmid Chacham. This is in opposition to Aruch HaShulchan 244:10-2 who defends the minhag to stand partially for an elder. See also Teshuvot VeHanhagot YD 3:279 who is seems to agree. </ref> One should stand from the time the elder or Talmid Chacham enters one's 4 [[amot]] until he passes from before one's face; some say that one should stand until the elder or Talmid Chacham leaves one's 4 [[amot]]. <ref> S”A 244:2 rules that one should stand once the Talmid Chacham or elder enter one's 4 [[amot]]. Shach 244:6 adds that it is forbidden to stand before a Talmid Chacham enters one's 4 [[amot]] because there is no presentation of respect by standing at that distance. Birkei Yosef 244:11 and Chaye Adam 69:3 agree. Kavod VeHiddur p. 63 writes that this applies equally to an elder and a Talmid Chacham. Sh”t Yabia Omer 4:16 agrees, rejecting the Ben Ish Chai Ki Teitzei 13 who says that once the elder enters the room, one should stand, as the whole room is considered like 4 [[amot]]. Kavod VeHiddur p. 63 quotes Hadar Zekenim (chap 1, note 15) that one doesn't need to measure 4 [[amot]]; it's enough to stand where it seems like 4 [[amot]].  
# For an elder or Talmid Chacham, one should stand up completely, not just partially.<ref> Tur 244, Taz 244:4, Gra 244:11, Chaye Adam 69:4, Kavod Vehiddur p. 64, and Sh”t Yabia Omer 3:13 write that one should stand completely for an elder just like one stands completely for a Talmid Chacham. This is in opposition to Aruch HaShulchan 244:10-2 who defends the minhag to stand partially for an elder. See also Teshuvot VeHanhagot YD 3:279 who is seems to agree. </ref> One should stand from the time the elder or Talmid Chacham enters one's 4 [[amot]] until he passes from before one's face; some say that one should stand until the elder or Talmid Chacham leaves one's 4 [[amot]]. <ref> S”A 244:2 rules that one should stand once the Talmid Chacham or elder enter one's 4 [[amot]]. Shach 244:6 adds that it is forbidden to stand before a Talmid Chacham enters one's 4 [[amot]] because there is no presentation of respect by standing at that distance. Birkei Yosef 244:11 and Chaye Adam 69:3 agree. Kavod VeHiddur p. 63 writes that this applies equally to an elder and a Talmid Chacham. Sh”t Yabia Omer 4:16 agrees, rejecting the Ben Ish Chai Ki Teitzei 13 who says that once the elder enters the room, one should stand, as the whole room is considered like 4 [[amot]]. Kavod VeHiddur p. 63 quotes Hadar Zekenim (chap 1, note 15) that one doesn't need to measure 4 [[amot]]; it's enough to stand where it seems like 4 [[amot]].  
* S”A 244:2 and 9 says, based on Rambam, that one may sit after the elder or Talmid Chacham has passed from before one's face. Bach 244:5, based on Rashi, says that one should be strict to continue to stand until they leave his 4 [[amot]]. Shach 244:7, Aruch HaShulchan 244:13, and Hiddur Panim (p. 109 #16, quoting Rav Elyashiv) agree with the Bach. Chaye Adam 69:3 quotes S”A as the anonymous opinion and Bach as “some say.” Birkei Yosef 244:12 holds like S”A. Kavod VeHiddur (p. 65 note 69) writes that this applies equally to an elder and a Talmid Chacham. </ref>
* S”A 244:2 and 9 says, based on Rambam, that one may sit after the elder or Talmid Chacham has passed from before one's face. Bach 244:5, based on Rashi, says that one should be strict to continue to stand until they leave his 4 [[amot]]. Shach 244:7, Aruch HaShulchan 244:13, and Hiddur Panim (p. 109 #16, quoting Rav Elyashiv) agree with the Bach. Chaye Adam 69:3 quotes S”A as the anonymous opinion and Bach as “some say.” Birkei Yosef 244:12 holds like S”A. Kavod VeHiddur (p. 65 note 69) writes that this applies equally to an elder and a Talmid Chacham. </ref>
# According to Ashkenazic minhag, one has to stand for a particular Talmid Chacham or elder only once in the daytime and once at night unless one is in the presence of people who don’t know he stood previously; Sephardim, however, hold that one must stand up every time. <ref> Rama 242:16 writes that one has to stand for one's Rebbe once in the morning and once at night unless one is in the presence of people who don’t know that he stood previously. Taz 242:12 explains that one shouldn't have to stand more often than one says Shema, which is an expression of respect for heaven. Shevet HaLevi 5:130 and Hiddur Panim (p. 109 #18) quoting Rav Elyashiv rule like the Rama. Kavod VeHiddur p. 67 quotes gedolei horaah who say that this applies equally to an elder and Talmid Chacham. However, Birkei Yosef 242:21 explains that S”A holds that one should stand every time. Rabbi Mansour on DailyHalacha.com (12/30/10) writes that Sephardim should follow Birkei Yosef. </ref>
# According to Ashkenazic minhag, one has to stand for a particular Talmid Chacham or elder only once in the daytime and once at night unless one is in the presence of people who don’t know he stood previously; Sephardim, however, hold that one must stand up every time. <ref> The gemara Kiddushin 33b states that one shouldn’t stand for one’s rabbi more than once a day and once a night so that one doesn't accept the yoke of Heaven in Shema less often than one shows respect to one's Rabbi. Rambam (Talmid Torah 6:8) and Aruch HaShulchan 242:45 codify this.
* However, the Tur YD 242:16 cites the opinion of the Rif and Rosh who hold that one should stand every time one’s rabbi comes by. Rashba agrees. The Birkei Yosef 242:21 writes that Shulchan Aruch’s opinion is like the Rif and Rosh. Yalkut Yosef (Kibbud Av 4:8) agrees. Rabbi Mansour on DailyHalacha.com (12/30/10) writes that Sephardim should follow Birkei Yosef.
* Lastly, the Smag, Tosfot Yeshanim, and Tosfot Chullin 54b hold that it isn’t an obligation to stand more than once a day and once a night but it is optional. Bach (242 s.v. Katav HaRambam) and Rama YD 242:16 hold like this opinion. Shevet HaLevi 5:130 and Hiddur Panim (p. 109 #18) quoting Rav Elyashiv rule like the Rama.
* Tosfot (Kiddushin 33b s.v. ein) writes that if new people come who didn't see one stand up the first time that day, one has to stand up for one's Rabbi even though one already stood. The Rama YD 242:16 codifies this.
* Kavod VeHiddur p. 67 quotes gedolei horaah who say that this applies equally to an elder and Talmid Chacham. </ref>
# There are some who try to justify a minhag of being lenient regarding standing for an elder and Talmid Chacham. <ref> Shach 244:11 seems to say that the minhag is to stand only for an Av Bet Din or Rosh Yeshiva, but he leaves it as a tzarich iyun. Rav Chaim Zonenfeld in Salmat Chaim YD 59-60 explains that the Shach doesn't mean that they uprooted a Deoritta but rather that the Talmidei Chachamim forgo the respect due to them. Rabbi Zonenfeld seems to say that this is not accepted as the Halacha but only a defense of the minhag. Similarly, Sh”t Yabia Omer YD 3:13 writes that one should certainly not rely on the assumption that Talmidei Chachamim are mochel. Kavod VeHiddur p. 38 cites some who say that we assume that in general a Talmid Chacham is mochel. Rabbi Hershel Schachter (Halachipedia Article 5772 #15) stated that we assume a Talmid Chacham is mochel people standing for him.
# There are some who try to justify a minhag of being lenient regarding standing for an elder and Talmid Chacham. <ref> Shach 244:11 seems to say that the minhag is to stand only for an Av Bet Din or Rosh Yeshiva, but he leaves it as a tzarich iyun. Rav Chaim Zonenfeld in Salmat Chaim YD 59-60 explains that the Shach doesn't mean that they uprooted a Deoritta but rather that the Talmidei Chachamim forgo the respect due to them. Rabbi Zonenfeld seems to say that this is not accepted as the Halacha but only a defense of the minhag. Similarly, Sh”t Yabia Omer YD 3:13 writes that one should certainly not rely on the assumption that Talmidei Chachamim are mochel. Kavod VeHiddur p. 38 cites some who say that we assume that in general a Talmid Chacham is mochel. Rabbi Hershel Schachter (Halachipedia Article 5772 #15) stated that we assume a Talmid Chacham is mochel people standing for him.
* Regarding elders, Kavod VeHiddur p. 64 quotes Rav Elyashiv saying that the minhag has what to rely on, since we assume that elders forgo the respect due to them. </ref>
* Regarding elders, Kavod VeHiddur p. 64 quotes Rav Elyashiv saying that the minhag has what to rely on, since we assume that elders forgo the respect due to them. </ref>
==Related Topics==
==Related Topics==
# Regarding standing for an elderly person or a talmid chacham in middle of pesukei dezimrah, see [[Pesukei_DeZimrah#Interruptions_in_middle_of_Pesukei_Dezimrah]]
# Regarding standing for an elderly person or a talmid chacham in middle of pesukei dezimrah, see [[Pesukei_DeZimrah#Interruptions_in_middle_of_Pesukei_Dezimrah]]
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