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Standing for Talmidei Chachamim and the Elderly: Difference between revisions
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==Standing for the Elderly== | ==Standing for the Elderly== | ||
# There is a positive mitzvah Deoritta to stand up for a Jew who is 70 years old.<ref> S”A YD 244:1 writes that it is a positive command to stand up for an elderly person of age 70. Kitzur S”A 144:2, Chaye Adam 69:2, and Aruch HaShulchan 244:1 agree. Birkei Yosef 244:4, however, quotes the Arizal who says that one should stand for a person of age 60. Sh”t Yabia Omer 3:13 and 9:13 writes that while the halacha follows S”A, one who is strict for the Arizal will be blessed. </ref> | # There is a positive mitzvah Deoritta to stand up for a Jew who is 70 years old.<ref> S”A YD 244:1 writes that it is a positive command to stand up for an elderly person of age 70. This is from the pasuk in the Torah (Vayikra 19:32) מפני שיבה תקום והדרת פני זקן. Kitzur S”A 144:2, Chaye Adam 69:2, and Aruch HaShulchan 244:1 agree. Birkei Yosef 244:4, however, quotes the Arizal who says that one should stand for a person of age 60. Sh”t Yabia Omer 3:13 and 9:13 writes that while the halacha follows S”A, one who is strict for the Arizal will be blessed. </ref> | ||
# If one is unsure if the person is 70, one should stand up. <Ref> Yalkut Yosef YD 244:16 | # If one is unsure if the person is 70, one should stand up. <Ref> Yechave Daat 3:70 and Yalkut Yosef YD 244:16 write that if one isn't sure if the person is 70, he should stand up based on the principle of Safek Deoritta LeChumra. Tosefet Chaim on Chaye Adam 69:2, [[Shevet Halevi]] 5:130, Salmat Chaim YD 62, and Hiddur Panim (p. 109#14, citing Rav Elyashiv) agree. See, however, the Rogatchover’s comment on Salmat Chaim p. 58 who seems to say one is exempt. </ref> | ||
# One should offer support to a non-Jewish elderly person but technically one doesn't have the same obligation to stand as one does for a Jewish elderly person.<ref>S”A 244:7 writes that for a non-Jewish elder one should speak respectfully and offer one’s hand to support him. Levush 244:7, Chaye Adam 69:2, and Kitzur S”A 144:2 agree. Kesef Mishna (Talmud Torah 6:9) writes explicitly that there is no mitzvah to stand for a non-Jewish elder. Therefore, Kavod VeHiddur (p. 78) rules that one does not have to stand for a non-Jewish elder at all.</ref> | # One should offer support to a non-Jewish elderly person but technically one doesn't have the same obligation to stand as one does for a Jewish elderly person.<ref>S”A 244:7 writes that for a non-Jewish elder one should speak respectfully and offer one’s hand to support him. Levush 244:7, Chaye Adam 69:2, and Kitzur S”A 144:2 agree. Kesef Mishna (Talmud Torah 6:9) writes explicitly that there is no mitzvah to stand for a non-Jewish elder. Therefore, Kavod VeHiddur (p. 78) rules that one does not have to stand for a non-Jewish elder at all.</ref> | ||
# One should stand for an elderly person even if he isn't wise in Torah as long as he isn't a wicked person.<ref>Rama YD 244:1. | # One should stand for an elderly person even if he isn't wise in Torah as long as he isn't a wicked person.<ref>Rama YD 244:1. According to Rav Wosner (Shevet Halevi 9:198) and Rav Nissan Karelitz (Kibud Vehidur page 447) one need not stand up before modern day non-observant Jews, who desecrate Shabbos and do not adhere to halacha. </ref> | ||
==Standing for a Talmid Chacham== | ==Standing for a Talmid Chacham== | ||
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* Gemara Makot 22b bemoans how stupid some people are that they will stand up for a sefer torah and yet not stand up for a talmid chacham | * Gemara Makot 22b bemoans how stupid some people are that they will stand up for a sefer torah and yet not stand up for a talmid chacham | ||
* Shach 244:2 explains that only a Talmid Chacham who is wiser than most people is considered a Talmid Chacham for this halacha. This is quoted by Baeir Heitev 244:2, Chaye Adam 69:1, and Aruch HaShulchan 244:4. Avnei Yashfeh 188:1 writes that certainly there is no obligation to stand for a yeshiva bachur. Yalkut Yosef YD 244:16 writes that one has to stand only for a Talmid Chacham who knows how to give psak in even haezer and choshen mishpat and not just someone learning in kollel. </ref> | * Shach 244:2 explains that only a Talmid Chacham who is wiser than most people is considered a Talmid Chacham for this halacha. This is quoted by Baeir Heitev 244:2, Chaye Adam 69:1, and Aruch HaShulchan 244:4. Avnei Yashfeh 188:1 writes that certainly there is no obligation to stand for a yeshiva bachur. Yalkut Yosef YD 244:16 writes that one has to stand only for a Talmid Chacham who knows how to give psak in even haezer and choshen mishpat and not just someone learning in kollel. </ref> | ||
# One should stand for a Talmid Chacham once he enters one's 4 amot until he leaves one's view.<ref> | # One should stand for a Talmid Chacham once he enters one's 4 amot until he leaves one's view.<ref>Shulchan Aruch YD 244:2 | ||
* When does the chiyuv start? Shach 244:6 adds that it is forbidden to stand before he enters one's 4 amot because there is no presentation of respect by standing at that distance. Birkei Yosef 244:11 agrees. Sh”t Yabea Omer 4:16 agrees and argues on Ben Ish Chai Ki Tetzei 13 who says that once the elder enters room one should stand as whole room is like 4 amot. [Kavod VeHiddur pg 63 writes that the din of the shach 244:6 applies to a elder and a talmid chacham.] | * When does the chiyuv start? Shach 244:6 adds that it is forbidden to stand before he enters one's 4 amot because there is no presentation of respect by standing at that distance. Birkei Yosef 244:11 agrees. Sh”t Yabea Omer 4:16 agrees and argues on Ben Ish Chai Ki Tetzei 13 who says that once the elder enters room one should stand as whole room is like 4 amot. [Kavod VeHiddur pg 63 writes that the din of the shach 244:6 applies to a elder and a talmid chacham.] | ||
* What is measure of 4 amot? Kavod VeHiddur pg 63 quotes Hadar Zekenim 1 note 15 that one doesn't need to measure 4 amot to be strict for shach but it's enough to stand where it seems like 4 amot. | * What is measure of 4 amot? Kavod VeHiddur pg 63 quotes Hadar Zekenim 1 note 15 that one doesn't need to measure 4 amot to be strict for shach but it's enough to stand where it seems like 4 amot. | ||
* When does the chiyuv end? S”A 244:2,9 based on Rambam says the chiyuv ends when they're no longer in front of one's face. Bach 244:5 based on Rashi says that one should be strict to continue to stand until they leave one's 4 amot. Shach 244:7 quotes this. Kavod VeHiddur pg 65 note 69 writes that there's no chiluk between elder and talmid chacham for this halacha. Birkei Yosef 244:12 holds like S”A.</ref> | * When does the chiyuv end? S”A 244:2,9 based on Rambam says the chiyuv ends when they're no longer in front of one's face. Bach 244:5 based on Rashi says that one should be strict to continue to stand until they leave one's 4 amot. Shach 244:7 quotes this. Kavod VeHiddur pg 65 note 69 writes that there's no chiluk between elder and talmid chacham for this halacha. Birkei Yosef 244:12 holds like S”A.</ref> | ||
# One should stand for one's Rebbe Muvhak once he enters one's eyesight until he leaves one's eyesight.<ref> | # One should stand for one's Rebbe Muvhak once he enters one's eyesight until he leaves one's eyesight.<ref>Shulchan Aruch YD 242:16. Ran (Kiddushin 14a s.v. kemelo aynav) says that the reason that one needs to say for one’s rav muvhak when he sees him is because it is evident that one is standing in honor of one’s rebbe even though he is far away. The Rambam (Mamrim 6:3 as understood by the Griz Talmud Torah 5:11) says that one standing as far as one can see one’s rav muvhak because there’s an additional obligation of honoring him just like one honor’s parent, which is different than the regular obligation to stand for a talmid chacham. </ref> A Rebbe Muvhak is defined as a teacher that one learned a majority of one's learning from.<ref>Gemara Bava Metsia 33a, Shulchan Aruch YD 242:30</ref> | ||
# A Gadol HaDor is considered like one's Rebbe Muvhak even if one didn't learn from him.<ref> S”A YD 244:10 </ref> | # A Gadol HaDor is considered like one's Rebbe Muvhak even if one didn't learn from him.<ref> S”A YD 244:10 </ref> | ||
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# There are some who try to justify a minhag of being lenient regarding standing for an elder and Talmid Chacham. <ref> Shach 244:11 seems to say that the minhag is to stand only for an Av Bet Din or Rosh Yeshiva, but he leaves it as a tzarich iyun. Rav Chaim Zonenfeld in Salmat Chaim YD 59-60 explains that the Shach doesn't mean that they uprooted a Deoritta but rather that the Talmidei Chachamim forgo the respect due to them. Rabbi Zonenfeld seems to say that this is not accepted as the Halacha but only a defense of the minhag. Moadim Uzmanim 3:248 writes that he's unsure if this is enough to rely on. Similarly, Sh”t Yabia Omer YD 3:13 writes that one should certainly not rely on the assumption that Talmidei Chachamim are mochel. Kavod VeHiddur p. 38 cites some who say that we assume that in general a Talmid Chacham is mochel. Rabbi Hershel Schachter (Halachipedia Article 5772 #15) stated that we assume a Talmid Chacham is mochel people standing for him. | # There are some who try to justify a minhag of being lenient regarding standing for an elder and Talmid Chacham. <ref> Shach 244:11 seems to say that the minhag is to stand only for an Av Bet Din or Rosh Yeshiva, but he leaves it as a tzarich iyun. Rav Chaim Zonenfeld in Salmat Chaim YD 59-60 explains that the Shach doesn't mean that they uprooted a Deoritta but rather that the Talmidei Chachamim forgo the respect due to them. Rabbi Zonenfeld seems to say that this is not accepted as the Halacha but only a defense of the minhag. Moadim Uzmanim 3:248 writes that he's unsure if this is enough to rely on. Similarly, Sh”t Yabia Omer YD 3:13 writes that one should certainly not rely on the assumption that Talmidei Chachamim are mochel. Kavod VeHiddur p. 38 cites some who say that we assume that in general a Talmid Chacham is mochel. Rabbi Hershel Schachter (Halachipedia Article 5772 #15) stated that we assume a Talmid Chacham is mochel people standing for him. | ||
* The Rogachover in Salmat Yosef 1:3 writes that the biblical mitzvah of standing for a Talmid Chacham only applies to someone who has semicha going back to Moshe Rabbenu. Yabia Omer YD 4:16:2 rejects this based on a number of rishonim. | * The Rogachover in Salmat Yosef 1:3 writes that the biblical mitzvah of standing for a Talmid Chacham only applies to someone who has semicha going back to Moshe Rabbenu. Yabia Omer YD 4:16:2 rejects this based on a number of rishonim. | ||
* Regarding elders, Kavod VeHiddur p. 64 quotes Rav Elyashiv saying that the minhag has what to rely on, since we assume that elders forgo the respect due to them. </ref> | * Regarding elders, Kavod VeHiddur p. 64 quotes Rav Elyashiv saying that the minhag of standing slightly has what to rely on, since we assume that elders forgo the respect due to them, but does not say anything there about not standing at all. </ref> | ||
==Related Topics== | ==Related Topics== | ||
# Regarding standing for an elderly person or a talmid chacham in middle of pesukei dezimrah, see [[Pesukei_DeZimrah#Interruptions_in_middle_of_Pesukei_Dezimrah]] | # Regarding standing for an elderly person or a talmid chacham in middle of pesukei dezimrah, see [[Pesukei_DeZimrah#Interruptions_in_middle_of_Pesukei_Dezimrah]] | ||
# Regarding to standing for parents, see [[Kibud_Av_V%27Em#Standing_for_one.27s_parents]]. | # Regarding to standing for parents, see [[Kibud_Av_V%27Em#Standing_for_one.27s_parents]]. | ||
# Regarding the recital of a beracha upon seeing a talmid chacham see [[Brachot_on_Sights#Bracha_for_seeing_a_scholar]] | |||
==Links== | |||
* [http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/749743/rabbi-aryeh-lebowitz/ten-minute-halacha-standing-for-elders/ Ten Minute Halacha on Standing for the Elderly] by Rabbi Aryeh Lebowitz | |||
* Article on [http://www.bknw.org/uploads/5/9/9/5/5995719/standing_up_for_a_talmid_chochom.pdf Standing up for a Talmid Chochom] by Rabbi Yehuda Balsam | |||
==Sources== | ==Sources== | ||
<references/> | <references/> | ||
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[[Category:Learning Torah]] | [[Category:Learning Torah]] | ||
[[Category: Ritual Practices]] | [[Category: Ritual Practices]] | ||
[[Category:Yoreh Deah]] | |||
