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Materials to use for S'chach: Difference between revisions
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→Bamboo Mats
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===Bamboo Mats=== | ===Bamboo Mats=== | ||
# Bamboo mats made for [[S'chach]], which are 3x2 meters, are fit for [[S'chach]] according to most poskim.<ref>Rav Ovadia Yosef (Chazon Ovadyah [[Sukkot]] pg 25-6), Rav Moshe Feinstein (Mesoret Moshe v. 1 p. 219), Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Halichot Shlomo pg 128), Az Nidbaru (2:66, 12:35), and [http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/764662/Rabbi_Hershel_Schachter/%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%99_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%94%D7%9B'%D7%A4_%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%95%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%AA Rav Herschel Schachter] (min 78-79:30) are all lenient to allow using bamboo mats. However, Rav Elyashiv (Kovetz Teshuvot 1:63) holds that it is invalid | # Bamboo mats made for [[S'chach]], which are 3x2 meters, are fit for [[S'chach]] according to most poskim.<ref>Rav Ovadia Yosef (Chazon Ovadyah [[Sukkot]] pg 25-6), Rav Moshe Feinstein (Mesoret Moshe v. 1 p. 219), Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Halichot Shlomo pg 128), Az Nidbaru (2:66, 12:35), Rav Wosner ([https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1416&pgnum=77 Sh"t Shevet HaLevi 6:74]), and [http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/764662/Rabbi_Hershel_Schachter/%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%99_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%94%D7%9B'%D7%A4_%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%95%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%AA Rav Herschel Schachter] (min 78-79:30) are all lenient to allow using bamboo mats. However, Rav Elyashiv (Kovetz Teshuvot 1:63) holds that it is invalid. | ||
*Chazon Ovadia (p. 23) writes that bamboo mats that are strung together with organic materials or cotton are valid [[schach]]. He reasons that it is similar to the case of the mat which is used only for [[schach]] and is recognizable for that purpose. Therefore, the mats aren’t susceptible to impurity. Also, it isn’t similar to a roof as there are spaces between the planks and can be folded up. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Halichot Shlomo p. 128) and Rav Hershel Schachter (עניני יוה”כ וסוכות, min 78-79:30) agreed. | *Chazon Ovadia (p. 23) writes that bamboo mats that are strung together with organic materials or cotton are valid [[schach]]. He reasons that it is similar to the case of the mat which is used only for [[schach]] and is recognizable for that purpose. Therefore, the mats aren’t susceptible to impurity. Also, it isn’t similar to a roof as there are spaces between the planks and can be folded up. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Halichot Shlomo p. 128) and Rav Hershel Schachter (עניני יוה”כ וסוכות, min 78-79:30) agreed. | ||
*Tzitz Eliezer 10:29 writes that one shouldn't use reed or straw mats for [[Schach]]. The reasoning is that the mats are sometimes used for sitting, sleeping, or containing items in which case they are impure. This would be a biblical invalidation. He adds that even if its designated to be used for [[schach]] there would be a rabbinic prohibition lest it be confused with those that are are unfit. Additionally, sometimes it is used as for roofing in which case they would be unfit as it looks like a real roof.</ref> | *Tzitz Eliezer 10:29 writes that one shouldn't use reed or straw mats for [[Schach]]. The reasoning is that the mats are sometimes used for sitting, sleeping, or containing items in which case they are impure. This would be a biblical invalidation. He adds that even if its designated to be used for [[schach]] there would be a rabbinic prohibition lest it be confused with those that are are unfit. Additionally, sometimes it is used as for roofing in which case they would be unfit as it looks like a real roof. | ||
*Here is a breakdown of the issues involved: (1) Are the mats made to be slept upon? Tzitz Eliezer is concerned that the mats are made to be slept upon even in Israel, while Az Nidbaru and Rav Ovadia aren't concerned because they hold that in fact people in Israel do not sleep on these bamboo mats made for schach. Also, the bamboo mats are made to be larger the size of a bed are kosher since it isn't normal to make them for people to sleep upon (Rav Ovadia, based on Bikkurei Yakov and Mishna Brurah (Shaar Hatziyun 629:24)). (2) Is there a concern that people will think that people made the mats for sleeping (''marit ayin'')? Tzitz Eliezer is concerned for this issue, but Rav Ovadia is not concerned because firstly it is not used for sleeping upon in Israel (according to his view) and this concern of marit ayin is subject to debate. Tzitz Eliezer holds that everyone agrees that marit ayin is an issue, while Rav Ovadia argues that Shulchan Aruch holds that there is no concern for marit ayin as he rules like the Rid unlike the Rosh. (3) Is it likely people will assume if you can use mats for schach they can also use a real home roof for a sukkah? Rav Elyashiv argues that since the pieces of the mat are strung together altogether they become one piece that is wider than 4 tefachim which would make it invalid schach, since it could be used for roofing according to chazal (gezerat tikra). However, Rav Ovadia argues that the mats aren't used for roof nowadays and also since it rolls up it isn't similar to a large wooden board. Shevet Halevi also writes this second argument. (4) The mats are strung together by material which is invalid for schach (''maamid''). Rav Wosner writes that this issue is an issue if without that string the bamboo would fall down. However, if the bamboo wouldn't fall down even if the string were removed it isn't an issue of ''maamid'' and is valid. Star-K writes that a person should put up the mats so that the bamboo pieces are perpendicular to the beams or walls, so that the two ends of the bamboo pieces are resting on beams or walls. That is opposed to setting up the bamboo parallel to the walls and beams such that the middle bamboo pieces aren't resting on anything. </ref> | |||
# Regarding the use of hemp string to tie the bamboo for the [[schach]] together, most poskim are lenient.<ref> Regarding the hemp string used to tie the bamboos together, Rav Ovadia (Chazon Ovadia p. 30) writes that using string made from organic material for [[schach]] is only invalid rabbinically according to the Rambam if it is altered from its natural form (or according to the Raavad because it is useable for clothing). Since it is only a rabbinic issue, Rav Ovadia reasons that it is permitted to use it in order to hold up or hold together the [[schach]]. See the next footnote regarding maamid regarding items that are rabbinically invalid. Accordingly, Rav Schachter (“Inyonei [[Sukkos]]” on Yutorah.org min 60-4) permitted using hemp or cotton strings to hold together the bamboo mats. </ref> Some are concerned when the strings used to tie the mats are spun and others aren't.<Ref>Rashi Shabbat 64a s.v. yachol holds that any string that the fibers of which are spun by themselves are mekabel tumah. The Rambam (Sukkah 5:4, Kelim 22:1) disagrees and the Meiri 64a s.v. kilki explains the dispute in how to learn the gemara. The Shulchan Aruch (Bet Yosef 629:5) follows the Rambam as does the Mishna Brurah, but the Shaar Hatziyun 629:20 notes Rashi. Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe 1:177) in discussing venetian blinds also seems to be strict for Rashi. [https://www.star-k.org/articles/articles/seasonal/428/undercover-the-halachos-of-schach/ Rav Heinemann] is strict for Rashi. Rav Hershel Schachter is not concerned for Rashi since the Shulchan Aruch followed the Rambam.</ref> | # Regarding the use of hemp string to tie the bamboo for the [[schach]] together, most poskim are lenient.<ref> Regarding the hemp string used to tie the bamboos together, Rav Ovadia (Chazon Ovadia p. 30) writes that using string made from organic material for [[schach]] is only invalid rabbinically according to the Rambam if it is altered from its natural form (or according to the Raavad because it is useable for clothing). Since it is only a rabbinic issue, Rav Ovadia reasons that it is permitted to use it in order to hold up or hold together the [[schach]]. See the next footnote regarding maamid regarding items that are rabbinically invalid. Accordingly, Rav Schachter (“Inyonei [[Sukkos]]” on Yutorah.org min 60-4) permitted using hemp or cotton strings to hold together the bamboo mats. </ref> Some are concerned when the strings used to tie the mats are spun and others aren't.<Ref>Rashi Shabbat 64a s.v. yachol holds that any string that the fibers of which are spun by themselves are mekabel tumah. The Rambam (Sukkah 5:4, Kelim 22:1) disagrees and the Meiri 64a s.v. kilki explains the dispute in how to learn the gemara. The Shulchan Aruch (Bet Yosef 629:5) follows the Rambam as does the Mishna Brurah, but the Shaar Hatziyun 629:20 notes Rashi. Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe 1:177) in discussing venetian blinds also seems to be strict for Rashi. [https://www.star-k.org/articles/articles/seasonal/428/undercover-the-halachos-of-schach/ Rav Heinemann] is strict for Rashi. Rav Hershel Schachter is not concerned for Rashi since the Shulchan Aruch followed the Rambam.</ref> | ||
# Some poskim (Star-K) recommend using monofilament nylon strings to hold the bamboo together.<ref>[https://www.star-k.org/articles/articles/seasonal/428/undercover-the-halachos-of-schach/#footnotes Star-K]</ref> | # Some poskim (Star-K) recommend using monofilament nylon strings to hold the bamboo together.<ref>[https://www.star-k.org/articles/articles/seasonal/428/undercover-the-halachos-of-schach/#footnotes Star-K]</ref> | ||
