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Tochen: Difference between revisions
From Halachipedia
→Utensils Designed for Grinding
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=== Cooked Fruits and Vegetables === | === Cooked Fruits and Vegetables === | ||
#Fruits or vegetables which were cooked to the point that it is very easy to mash may be crushed on [[Shabbat]]. It can be mashed on Shabbat even with the prongs of a fork, but not a strainer.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:9</ref> Some say that it isn't permitted to mash unless its shape partially was crushed or fell apart because of the cooking.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata (English Version p. 73) clearly translates that vegetables cooked before Shabbat need to be already crushed in that they have changed their shape or fallen apart. This is certainly the ruling of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (ch. 6 fnt. 22). However, Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 6:9 implies that essentially if it is very soft then it is permissible to mash on Shabbat even if it didn't lose its shape. See also 6:10. Orchot Shabbat 5:9 similarly sounds like it is permitted with the same conditions and doesn't require that the shape change or fall apart. The Dor Hamelaktim v. 5 p. 2923 cites the Nishmat Shabbat 321:317:4 who is lenient and the Hilchot Shabbat BShabbat (ch. 11 fnt. 41) who is strict.</ref> | #Fruits or vegetables which were cooked to the point that it is very easy to mash may be crushed on [[Shabbat]]. It can be mashed on Shabbat even with the prongs of a fork, but not a strainer.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:9</ref> Some say that it isn't permitted to mash unless its shape partially was crushed or fell apart because of the cooking.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata (English Version p. 73) clearly translates that vegetables cooked before Shabbat need to be already crushed in that they have changed their shape or fallen apart. This is certainly the ruling of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (ch. 6 fnt. 22). However, Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 6:9 implies that essentially if it is very soft then it is permissible to mash on Shabbat even if it didn't lose its shape. See also 6:10. Orchot Shabbat 5:9 similarly sounds like it is permitted with the same conditions and doesn't require that the shape change or fall apart. The Dor Hamelaktim v. 5 p. 2923 cites the Nishmat Shabbat 321:317:4 who is lenient and the Hilchot Shabbat BShabbat (ch. 11 fnt. 41) who is strict.</ref> | ||
=== Changing the Utensil (שינוי גמור) === | |||
# If one completely changes the utensil to perform tochen (instead of using the typical utensil), then it is permitted.<ref>The gemara shabbat 141a cites Rava as holding that if one uses the back of a knife to crush pepper, it is permitted because one is using a shinuy. This is quite surprising, since if crushing it up normally would constitute an isur deorayta, why should it be permitted just because one does it with a shinuy? Typically speaking, doing melacha k'la'achar yad (i.e. in the abnormal way) is still rabbinically prohibited, so why should this be different? The Beit Yosef siman 321 cites from the Shibolei Haleket siman 92 as explaining that here it is a shinuy gamur (lit: complete change), and therefore it has the ability to permit even a biblical prohibition. Changing from a stone mortar and pestle to a wooden one is the first shinuy, and changing to the back of a knife is a second shinuy. The idea is presumably that since this is so different from the typical way the melacha is done, chazal weren't concerned that if someone did it this way they would come to violate the biblical prohibition, and so chazal weren't gozer. </ref> | |||
## For example, pepper is usually ground in a mortar and pestle, so it is permitted to grind it using the back of a knife (instead of a pestle) on a plate or on the table (instead of a mortar).<ref>Shulchan Aruch 321:7 and Mishna Brurah 321:25.</ref> | |||
## Similarly, salt may be crushed up with the back of a knife, on a plate or the table.<ref>Shulchan Aruch 321:8</ref> | |||
# Salt granules which solidified because of a moisture may be crushed on [[Shabbat]]. However, one may not crush salt crystals (looking like blocks) or any other spice which has never yet been crushed, unless one does two Shinui's (changes) by using the handle of the knife or fork on a plate or the table.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:11 </ref> | |||
==Grinding for a Small Child== | ==Grinding for a Small Child== | ||
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==Utensils Designed for Grinding== | ==Utensils Designed for Grinding== | ||
#Any tool which is designated for crushing or the like such as a mortar or a knife used only for dicing may not be used in any manner even | #Any tool which is designated for crushing or the like, such as a mortar and pestle, or a knife used only for dicing, may not be used in any manner on shabbat, even to chop into very big pieces.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:2, Sh”t Rivash 184</ref> | ||
#One should not use an onion slicer (a machine which is made of a set of knifes that surrounds the onion and dices it). <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:3 [I'm not entirely clear about what an onion slicer is.] </ref> | #List of Forbidden utensils: | ||
#A vegetable chopper (with blades fitted with springs on an axis) is forbidden since it chops vegetables thinly. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:3 </ref> | ##One should not use an onion slicer (a machine which is made of a set of knifes that surrounds the onion and dices it).<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:3 [I'm not entirely clear about what an onion slicer is.] </ref> | ||
#An egg slicer (with equally spaced wires that slice the egg when pressed) is permitted. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:3 </ref> | ##A vegetable chopper (with blades fitted with springs on an axis) is forbidden since it chops vegetables thinly.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:3 </ref> | ||
#A special cheese knife isn’t a utensil designated to be used for chopping finely. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:11. See Shemiras Shabbos Kehilchasa (6 no. 9) citing R’ Shlomo Zalman Auerbach where he discusses that with a cheese grater there is an issur of uvdin d’chol even if one will eat the grated cheese immediately based on the Rivash 184. However, one can use a knife and even perhaps a special chopping knife if one will eat the food subsequently in the meal since cutting is not exactly like regular tochein, which is closer to grating or mashing. </ref> | ##It’s forbidden to grind coffee beans it a grinder meant for it.<ref>Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]], vol 3, pg 377) </ref> | ||
#One may cut bread in a machine (manual, non-electric) which cuts slices of bread. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:11 (note) </ref> | ##A cucumber or tomato slicer may not be used on Shabbat.<ref>Dor Hamelaktim v. 5 p. 2891 quotes Rav Elyashiv (Zachor Vshamor ch. 1 fnt. 30) that a tomato slicer is a problem of tochen and Dor Hamelaktim compares it to a cucumber slicer.</ref> | ||
# | ##Potatoes or vegetables which were cooked may not be put through a strainer in order to puree it (as the strainer is designated for that purpose). However, one is permitted to crush it with a fork (even the prongs), as long as it was cooked to the point that it's easy to crush.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:10 </ref> | ||
#It’s permissible to cut vegetables on a cutting board even if it makes lines in the board. <ref>Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]], vol 3, pg 389) </ref> | ##One shouldn’t use a strainer to puree or cream a cooked fruit or vegetable, since the strainer has a designated purpose of being used to mash.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:10 </ref> | ||
#It’s permissible to use a peeler to peel vegetables on [[Shabbat]].<ref>Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]], vol 3, pg 391) | #List of Permitted utensils: | ||
##An egg slicer (with equally spaced wires that slice the egg when pressed) is permitted.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:3 </ref> | |||
##A special cheese knife isn’t a utensil designated to be used for chopping finely.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:11. See Shemiras Shabbos Kehilchasa (6 no. 9) citing R’ Shlomo Zalman Auerbach where he discusses that with a cheese grater there is an issur of uvdin d’chol even if one will eat the grated cheese immediately based on the Rivash 184. However, one can use a knife and even perhaps a special chopping knife if one will eat the food subsequently in the meal since cutting is not exactly like regular tochein, which is closer to grating or mashing. </ref> | |||
##One may cut bread in a machine (manual, non-electric) which cuts slices of bread.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:11 (note) </ref> | |||
##It’s permissible to cut vegetables on a cutting board, even if it makes lines in the board.<ref>Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]], vol 3, pg 389) </ref> | |||
##It’s permissible to use a peeler to peel vegetables on [[Shabbat]].<ref>Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]], vol 3, pg 391) </ref> | |||
==Related Pages== | ==Related Pages== | ||
