Tochen: Difference between revisions

== Chopping Vegetables for a Salad ==

*(2) Tosfot (shabbat 74b s.v. high) is seemingly bothered by the Rosh's question on Rashi, and so even though he learns the gemara like Rashi (that the gemara is discussing chopping up beets), he limits it by stating that only beets are included in this prohibition, but not other vegetables. He doesn't explain what makes beets unique that only they would be subject to tochen if chopped up into small pieces. Minchat Chinuch (tochen 2) explains that tosfot means to distinguish between vegetables that can be eaten raw and those that need to be cooked. Beets must be cooked, and so chopping is viewed as the preparatory step towards cooking, and thus a more significant act. In contrast, when one chops up a vegetable that doesn't need to be cooked, this is viewed as just part of the eating process.  

*(3) This idea is explicitly stated by the Ritva 74b, that only beets and other vegetables which are not eaten raw would be subject to this prohibition of tochen.  

*However, other rishonim agree to Rashi that there would be an issue to chop up vegetables, even if one does not intend to cook them, and even if they are edible raw. For example, Tosfot (shabbat 114b s.v. ela) states that chopping up vegetables into pieces that are "דקות מאוד" (lit: very small) violates tochen, but chopping them into big pieces is completely permitted (since this isn't considered similar at all to "grinding"). Similarly, Haga'ot Maymoniyot (hilchot shabbat ch 21 ot 70) cites from the Rashbam that crumbling up bread is not a problem of tochen because the bread has already been ground up once (when first made, the wheat was ground into flour), and so tochen can't be violated a second time. The implication here is that without this argument to be lenient, tochen would have been applicable on bread, even though it is food, edible as it is, and one doesn't intend to cook it further.  

*L'halacha, the Shulchan Aruch 321:12 paskens stringently that one who chops up vegetables into pieces that are "דק דק" (lit: very small) has violated the biblical melacha of tochen. As we have seen, many rishonim would disagree with this statement, but of course many would agree, and so the Shulchan Aruch follows the strict approach. However, there is a discussion whether the Rama agrees to this or not. The Rama writes that it is similarly prohibited to chop up figs or carrobs for old people. Why does he specify old people? The Magen Avraham 321:14 suggests that perhaps the Rama understands that it is only prohibited to chop it for old people since they are unable to eat the vegetables otherwise. This type of chopping is significant and thus deemed melacha. However, if someone is able to eat the vegetables even before the chopping, then chopping would be permitted. This is a major leniency. However, it is rejected by the Mishna Brurah (Biur Halacha 321:12 s.v. lifnei), who suggests that really the Rama just mentioned old people because that was the common case, but it was not meant to exclude other people. Practically then, the halacha is that one may not chop vegetables into very small pieces even for one who is able to eat them otherwise. </ref>

## What is considered somewhat large? As long as the pieces are cut larger than typically cut during the week.<ref>39 Melachos v. 2 p. 460, Dor Hamelaktim v. 5 p. 2914 citing Chazon Ish 57 s.v. vheneh, Brit Olam (Tochen 20), Az Nidbaru 11:8, 12:22, Shabbos Kitchen ch. 9 fnt. 19, Rivevot Efraim 5:260:3, Hilchos Shabbos (Rav Eider fnt. 91)</ref>

## What is considered large pieces?

### Some say that pieces that are larger than one usually cuts them is considered large. Inversely, some say that anything a cook or housewife would consider 'very small' is considered small.

###Some say that pieces that one still needs to chew and can't swallow whole is considered large.<ref>Dor Hamelaktim v. 5 p. 2913-5 cites 3 main approaches:

*Rav Belsky (OU Documents S-34) as holding that the size for tochen is cutting it smaller than one usually cuts. They also quote Rav Elyashiv (Am Mekadshei Sheviyi 1:6:4) and Hilchos Shabbos (Rav Eider fnt. 39) who concur.

*Yashiv Moshe (Nishmat Shabbat 315:2) and the Shabbos Kitchen (p. 130) write that cutting it to whatever is considered by people to be very small is a problem of tochen.

*Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata ch. 6 fnt. 6, Minchat Shlomo 1:91:13, Shulchan Shlomo 321:13:2) holds that as long as one needs to chew on it to eat it it is considered a small piece. Minchat Ish 3:4:4 s.v. vheneh explains that he doesn't mean that if it is big enough that would one need to chew it then it is considered big and it is permitted to cut it to that size, rather he is just coming to say that if it is a little small then it has made the chewing process easier and is considered tochen. 39 Melachos v. 2 p. 458 seems to apply Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach's opinion to permit cutting any salad since it will still need to be chewed, however, he concludes that we do not follow that opinion.

*Lastly, they cite Zachor Vshamor (Tochen 2) who says that if the pieces are larger than .5 cm^3 it is certainly not considered very small.</ref>

##The above leniency applies whether one is preparing for one's own immediate consumption or another person's immediate consumption.<ref>Bet Yosef 321 based on the Tosfot ([[Shabbat]] 74a s.v. [[Borer]] UMayni'ach) writes that it is permitted to do Tochen for another person's immediate consumption just like it is permitted to do Tochen for one's own immediate consumption. Mishna Brurah 321:43 agrees.</ref>

##It is also considered "immediate" if one makes the salad right before beginning the meal in which it will be eaten.<ref>Mishna Brurah 321:45, Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:6, Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]], vol 3, pg 382) </ref>

==Cooked Fruits and Vegetables==

==Pre-crushed food==

#Food which was made from crushed particles may be crushed on [[Shabbat]] (not using a utensil designated for crushed but rather a regular knife) if one is going to eat it on [[Shabbat]]. For example, one may crush [[matza]], bread, crackers, chocolate, and sugar. <ref>The Rama 321:12 rules that it is permitted to crush up bread because the flour was already ground up when it was made. Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:11 extends this to breaking up [[matza]], crackers, chocolate, and sugar.</ref>

#Salt granules which solidified because of a moisture may be crushed on [[Shabbat]], however, one may not crush salt crystals (looking like blocks) or any other spice which has never yet been crushed unless one does two Shinui's (changes) by using the handle of the knife or fork on a plate or the table. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:11 </ref>

#Food which was crushed very well before [[Shabbat]] or on [[Shabbat]] in a permissible may may be further cut on [[Shabbat]] even in the normal fashion. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:12 </ref>

#If someone made farina or rice porridge before Shabbat and now on Shabbat it is dry, one may pour hot water even from a ''Kli Rishon'' onto the farina or rice porridge to dilute it and mix it up. One may even crush the clumps with a spoon.<ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:13 </ref> To make farina as a thin mixture that pours from scratch on Shabbat one should make a change in how the ingredients are put in. If the farina is usually put in first and the water, on Shabbat one should first put in the water first and then the farina and vice versa.<ref>Divarecha Yair 3:14 writes that farina or cream of wheat is usually made as a thin batter food and so it only needs a shinuy in the order of putting in the ingredients.</ref>

==Foods not From the Ground==

#Even though there is an issue of tochen on non-food items as well as food items, foods that do not grow from the ground such as meat, eggs, and cheese are not subject to the prohibition as long as one plans on eating them that Shabbat.<ref>Gemara Shabbos 74b writes that one who grinds firewood into small pieces is chayav for tochen. Rambam Shabbos 7:5 includes metal as a tolada of tochen. The Minchat Chinuch (Musach Hashabbos Tochen 4) concludes based on the Rambam’s example that tochen applies to items which are not gidulei karka, and he adds that this is also the view of the Rashi (74b “Sheva”), who writes that there is a prohibition of tochen for clods of earth. However, the Pri Megadim (Mishbetzot Zahav 321:10) write that both dirt and metal may be considered gidulei karka. Shulchan Aruch O.C. 321:9 based on Terumat Hadeshen 56 writes that one may cut cooked meat into very small pieces. Mishna Brura 321:31 explains that this is because it isn’t gidulei karka and therefore the prohibition doesn’t apply. Shemirat Shabbos KeHilchata 6:14 and Yalkut Yosef (Shabbos, vol 3, pg 391) extend this to eggs and cheese. Shoneh Halachot 321:24 quotes the Chazon Ish that one may not be lenient with things that do not grow in the ground unless the intention is to eat them immediately.</ref>

#One may not crush or grind up raw meat on Shabbat since otherwise it isn't edible.<ref>Rama 321:9, Kaf Hachaim 324:29</ref> If it is for immediate consumption it is permitted.<ref>Mishna Brurah 321:33, Tiferet 321:47 citing Chazon Ovadia Shabbat v. 4 p. 270</ref>

==Grinding for a Small Child==

#One can be lenient to cut a food very small for a small child to eat so long as it’s immediately prior to the meal. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:6, Iggeros Moshe OC 4:74, Tochen 2. </ref>

#It’s forbidden to mash or squash a fruit or vegetable such as a banana or tomato. If one has to mash a banana for a small child one should do it with a variation such as using the handle of a fork or a spoon. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:8 </ref>

#It's forbidden to crush a banana or avocado unless it's already so soft that when one pulls a part of the fruit, that part separates from the rest of the fruit. <ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 6:7 </ref>

#There is a debate amongst the poskim if the prohibition of Tochen applies to fruit or vegetables such as bananas and avocados which when mashed do not separate into individual pieces but rather just change shape and remain one large mass. Therefore, it is better to do so with a shinui.<ref>The Tosefta (Beitza 1:19) says that "Pressed or dried figs cannot be crushed before the elderly." The Chazon Ish (57, “nimtzeinu”) writes that when pressed or dried figs are crushed, they remain one mass, and therefore even in such a case tochen is applicable. In light of this, the Chazon Ish writes that it is forbidden to mash a banana even though it remains one mass, even for immediate eating (lishitaso with above about immediate eating). Therefore, he says one must do so with a shinui. However, Rav Moshe Feinstein (Iggerot Moshe OC 4:74:Tochen 2) rules that they are not subject to the prohibition of Tochen and may be mashed in the regular manner. He says even if we accept that the prohibition applies even for immediate eating, it is only applicable when one takes one body and turns it into smaller components. However, taking a substance and mashing it while it remains one mass isn’t a problem. He nevertheless concludes that if possible, one should do it with a shinui to be machmir for the Chazon Ish. Rabbi Ribiat (“The 39 Melochos” pg. 461) sides with Rav Moshe. Chacham Ovadia Yosef (Yechave Daat 5:27), though he agrees that mashing is included in tochen, permits one to mash a banana with a fork to feed immediately to a child. Rabbi Moshe Halevi (Menuchat Ahava 2: pg. 278), writes that he should preferably do so in an unusual manner, such as by using the handle of the fork. Shemirat Shabbos Kehilchita 6:7-8 forbids mashing a banana or avocado unless one uses a shinui. <br /> </ref>

==Slicing==

#There is a machloket amongst the poskim if the prohibition applies only if the food is being cut very small in all dimensions or if it even applies if one is slicing in one direction such as an egg or tomato.<ref>Rav Moshe Feinstein (Iggerot Moshe OC 4:74:Tochen 3) writes that slicing foods in one direction isn’t considered tochen because otherwise there would be no limit. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Sh”t Minchat Shlomo 91:13) also rules this way. On the other hand, Ketzot HaShulchan Siman 129 Badei HaShulchan 2 quotes that the Tzemach Tzedek was stringent. Additionally, Orchot Shabbos page 217 chapter 5:footnote 12 writes that Rav Elyashiv was stringent as well.<br /> </ref>