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Kiddush: Difference between revisions
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==Eating in the Place One Made Kiddush== | ==Eating in the Place One Made Kiddush== | ||
#In the place where one made [[Kiddish|kiddush]], one should make sure to have a meal. This principle is referred to by chazal as ''Kiddush Bimakom Seuda''.<ref>Shmuel in Gemara Pesachim 101a says that one should only say Kiddush in the place where one is going to have a meal. The Rosh (Pesachim 10:5) says that this is based on the pasuk "VeKarata LeShabbat Oneg" (Yishayahu 58:13). Chazal explain that "Kriyah" is a reference to Kiddush, and "Oneg" is a reference to eating the meal. Hence, the pasuk means: in the place of Oneg (i.e. meal) one should have Kriyah (i.e. kiddush). Shulchan Aruch O.C. 273:1 and Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:14 codify this as the halacha.</ref> | #In the place where one made [[Kiddish|kiddush]], one should make sure to have a meal. This principle is referred to by chazal as ''Kiddush Bimakom Seuda''.<ref>Shmuel in Gemara Pesachim 101a says that one should only say Kiddush in the place where one is going to have a meal. The Rosh (Pesachim 10:5) says that this is based on the pasuk "VeKarata LeShabbat Oneg" (Yishayahu 58:13). Chazal explain that "Kriyah" is a reference to Kiddush, and "Oneg" is a reference to eating the meal. Hence, the pasuk means: in the place of Oneg (i.e. meal) one should have Kriyah (i.e. kiddush). Shulchan Aruch O.C. 273:1 and Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:14 codify this as the halacha. See Biur Halacha (273:3 s.v. l'alter) who understands that this drasha is really only an asmachta (hint), and that the requirement that kiddush be made by the meal is only rabbinic. </ref> | ||
##This applies both for the nighttime and daytime Kiddush.<ref>Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:14; Shulchan Aruch 289:1</ref> | ##This applies both for the nighttime and daytime Kiddush.<ref>Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:14; Shulchan Aruch 289:1</ref> | ||
#One should begin to eat something immediately after [[Kiddish|kiddush]]. | #One should begin to eat something immediately after [[Kiddish|kiddush]].<ref>Preferably, Rama 273:3 quotes from the Mahari Mulin that one should make one's meal immediately after [[Kiddish|Kiddush]]. This is presumably in order to link the kiddush to the meal as much as possible. Mishna Brurah 273:12 explains that preferably, one should eat one's meal right after [[Kiddish|Kiddush]] without waiting.</ref> | ||
##After the fact, as long as one had intent to eat immediately after kiddush, one doesn't need to make [[Kiddish|kiddush]] again, even if one made a long interruption or a Hesech HaDaat (interruption of thought).<ref>The Rama 273:3 seems to say that lechatchila one needs to either eat right after kiddush, or have had intention to eat right after kiddush. Thus, as long as one made kiddush with intention to eat soon afterwards, then even if some unforeseen circumstance arose that delayed the meal, this would seemingly be ok bedieved. Indeed, Mishna Brurah 273:12, and Piskei Teshuvot 273:3 based on Aruch HaShulchan 263:1, write that one shouldn't make a new [[Kiddish|Kiddush]] even if one had a long break or made a change in place and returned to the place of the [[Kiddish|Kiddush]]. </ref> | |||
##However, if one did not have intent to eat right after kiddush, and then made an interruption of 72 minutes, a new kiddush is needed.<ref>Mishna Brurah 273:14 explaining the Rama that a new kiddush is needed if there was no initial intent to eat immediately, and there was an interruption between kiddush and the meal. Halichot Olam (vol 3, pg 3) defines this interruption as 72 minutes.</ref> | |||
## | ###However, if there is a halachic need to delay the meal that is related to the meal, it is permitted to delay for that reason. For example, kiddush at the seder on Pesach is made much in advance of the meal due to the Maggid section of the Haggadah, but this is acceptable since Maggid is a necessary prerequisite to the meal.<ref>Rav Ovadia Yosef in [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=25473&st=&pgnum=15 (Kol Sinai Tevet 5724 p. 15)] writes that Maggid doesn't make the Kiddush before the meal not adjacent to the meal because the Maggid is necessary for the meal as we need to speak about the Matzah (''Lechem Shonim Alav Devarim Harbeh''). Halichot Shlomo of Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Moadim v. 2 p. 248 9:14) agrees and explains that the Maggid is intrinsically part of the meal and such was the establishment of chazal. See Rav Chaim Palagi Haggadah regarding how Maggid is an extension of Kiddush (like the Rif cited by Avudraham why there's no bracha on Maggid since Kiddush already fulfills the mitzvah of Maggid).</ref> | ||
#In order to have [[Kiddish|kiddush]] in the place where one eats and that the [[Kiddish|kiddush]] is considered a proper [[Kiddish|kiddush]], one must eat at least a [[kezayit]] of [[mezonot]] or bread, or drink a [[reviyit]] of wine.<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 273:5 writes in name of the Geonim that one can fulfill the obligation to eat in the place of where one makes [[Kiddish|kiddush]] by eating bread or drinking wine. Magen Avraham 273:10 and Mishna Brurah 273:21 rule that a [[Kezayit]] is needed to fulfill this obligation. Mishna Brurah 273:25 comments that certainly [[mezonot]] fulfills the obligation, as it is more significant than wine. Rabbi Akiva Eiger (on MA 273:11) points out that Magen Avraham 188:9 quotes Rabbenu Yonah Brachot 36b s.v. birkat who disagrees with the logic of the Bet Yosef 273:5 in explaining the geonim. Mishna Brurah 273:25 writes in name of Hagahot Rabbi Akiva Eiger and Tosefet [[Shabbat]] that wine doesn't fulfill one's obligation according to many rishonim, and so one should only rely on this in cases of need. | |||
#If | Piskei Teshuvot writes that it seems that there's a dispute between the Magen Avraham 273:11 and the Shaarei Teshuva 289:1 whether one can fulfill this obligation with [[mezonot]] that's not Pat HaBah Bekisnin. The Mishna Brurah 273:25 holds like the Magen Avraham and one can fulfill one's obligation by having any [[mezonot]]. Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchato 52:24, Sh"t Az Nidabru 8:31, Kiddush KeHilchato (pg 195), Sh"t Or Letzion (vol 2, 20:28), and Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 1 pg 196; Halichot Olam (Vol 3, pg 1)) agree. | ||
#One should try to make kiddush and eat the shabbat meal by the shabbat candles, but if for any reason this would cause an inconvenience (for example, would prefer to eat in the yard etc.), one may make kiddush and eat somewhere else. <ref>Chazon Ovadia vol.2 pg. 145-146 - he says although its considered a "mitzva min hamuvchar" to eat by candles, at the same time, the mitzva of shabbat candles were only given to us to enjoy shabbat, not to bother us...</ref> | There's a discussion in the achronim whether the geonim's shita is that one can simply drink a reviyit of the cup of kiddush, or whether needs to drink an additional reviyit of wine in order to constitute a meal. See Mishna Brurah (273:27) who cites this latter position. See Shaar Hatziyon (273:29) who thinks that regarding kiddush shabbat day one can be lenient, but regarding kiddush Friday night one should be strict, and perhaps not even rely on the geonim at all. </ref> | ||
##Even though theoretically this applies also at night, one should be strict at night not to rely on this and to make sure to have an egg's volume of bread (once one has done this, he may finish his meal in a different location).<ref>Rav Ovadia Yosef in [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=25473&st=&pgnum=13 (Kol Sinai Tevet 5724 p. 13)] writes that since some disagree with the geonim, we shouldn't rely on them at night when kiddush is biblical. Mishna Brurah (Shaar Hatziyun 273:29) questions whether or not we should rely on the geonim for the kiddush at night and leaves it unresolved. See also Mishna Brurah (273:25) who cites Rebbe Akiva Eiger as proving that many rishonim disagreed with the geonim, and that therefore one should only rely upon them in a pinch. </ref> | |||
#If someone is reciting kiddush in one room and someone else is hearing the kiddush in another room, if the person listening to the kiddush is going to eat his meal in the room where he currently is when he listens to kiddush, that is considered kiddush in the place of the meal. | |||
##The reason is that the one fulfilling his obligation of kiddush needs to be in the room where he is going to eat his meal and not where the person making kiddush is.<ref>Maharam Chalavah Pesachim 101a explains that they used to make kiddush in shul and people in a nearby room would hear the kiddush and fulfill their obligation and eat there. It is considered kiddush in the place where they're going to eat since they're fulfilling their obligation and they're the ones eating. The location of the one making kiddush doesn't impact that. Tosfot Pesachim 101a s.v. dochlu implies otherwise. Nonetheless, the Bet Yosef 273:6 cites the Rabbenu Yerucham, Smag, and Hagahot Maimoniyot who agreed with Maharam Chalavah. Shulchan Aruch OC 273:6 holds like Maharam Chalavah. Rabbi Akiva Eiger 273:2 explains that those listening to the kiddush are like making kiddush themselves (שומע כעונה), and so the only thing that matters is if they eat in the place where they were when they heard kiddush.</ref> | |||
#Changing locations: | |||
##It is a debate whether changing from one corner of the room to another is considered a new location, such that now the kiddush is not in the same place as the meal.<ref>The Tur (273) cites from Tosfot that moving one from corner to another corner in the same room doesn't constitute a change in location at all. The Bet Yosef cites this as the position of the Rosh (Pesachim 10:5) and the Rambam (hilchot shabbat 29:8). However, the Bet Yosef cites the Ran (daf 20a in the dapei harif) who argues and thinks that even changing from one corner of the room to another is considered a change in location. </ref> Some poskim say that ideally one should have intent during kiddush if they plan on switching locations within the same room,<ref>The Shulchan Aruch (273:1) paskens somewhat ambiguously. He first says that the entire room is viewed as a single location. But then he says that if one made kiddush without intent to switch locations, and then decided to switch, they don't need to repeat kiddush. This latter formulation sounds like it is only ok post-facto (i.e. after kiddush was made), but that if one made kiddush without intent to switch locations, then it would be prohibited at that point to switch locations for the meal, even within the same room. The Magen Avraham (273:1) makes this inference. However, Rebbe Akiva Eiger (on MA) argues and says that the Shulchan Aruch chose this formulation just to show that one doesn't need intent to switch locations from the outset. The Mishna Brurah (273:3) paskens that ideally one should not change locations like the Magen Avraham. However, in the shaar hatziyon (273:4) he seems to agree to Rebbe Akiva Eiger that one can lechatchila change locations within the same room, even if they did not have intent to do so when they made kiddush. See also Biur Halacha (273:1 s.v. v'chen ikar) who holds explicitly like Rebbe Akiva against the Magen Avraham. </ref> while other poskim say that intent is not needed since we hold like the majority view that the whole room is considered a single location.<ref>Rebbe Akiva Eiger on Magen Avraham 273:1. See previous note. | |||
Chazon Ovadia 2 pg. 126 paskens that one should ideally only switch locations within the same room if they have intent for it initially when making kiddush. However, if one did not have intent when they made kiddush, they may still switch locations after the fact.</ref> | |||
##It is a debate whether changing from one room to another in the same house is permitted, if one had express intention to do so from the outset.<ref>The Tur (273) cites from Rabbenu Nisim that if one had intent from the outset (during kiddush) to change locations, then there is no problem of eating the meal in that intended location, even though it isn't where one made kiddush. The Tur cites Tosfot as limiting the din of Rabbenu Nisim to where the second location is in the same house as the first, such as between rooms or between floors. However, if the second location was in a different house entirely, or in a courtyard, then this tnay (lit: stipulation) wouldn't help. The Bet Yosef brings the Ran (daf 20a in the dapei harif) who disagrees entirely with Rabbenu Nisim and thinks that a tnay is never ineffective here, so there would be no permitted way of making kiddush in one room and having the meal in another.</ref> Some poskim permit it<ref>The Shulchan Aruch 273:1 paskens like Tosfot, and the Rama concurs (he adds the phrase "וכן עיקר"). </ref> while others say ideally it should only be done in extenuating circumstances.<ref>Biur Halacha (273:1 s.v. v'chen ikar) suggests that one should refrain from relying upon this tnay except in cases of need. The reason is because the Magen Avraham (273:1) is strict to not even change from one corner of the room to another (when there is no stipulation), so we should at least be strict not to move from room to room to be chosheish (lit: concerned) for the opinion of the Ran. However, the Mishna Brurah is lenient if one can also see the second location from the place where one made kiddush.</ref> | |||
###Rav Ovadya thinks that if one would like to make kiddush in his house, but eat the actual meal in one's yard, one must fulfill two conditions: First, at the time of kiddush he must have intention to eat in the yard. Second, from wherever he is eating in his yard, he must be able to the see the place in house where he made kiddush. After the fact (bedieved), if one didn't have intention when making kiddush to eat in the yard, and ultimately did (as long as he could see the place he made kiddush in) he would have fulfilled his obligation.<ref>Chazon Ovadia 2 - pg. 127 </ref> | |||
#One should try to make kiddush and eat the shabbat meal by the shabbat candles, but if for any reason this would cause an inconvenience (for example, would prefer to eat in the yard etc.), one may make kiddush and eat somewhere else.<ref>Chazon Ovadia vol.2 pg. 145-146 - he says although its considered a "mitzva min hamuvchar" to eat by candles, at the same time, the mitzva of shabbat candles were only given to us to enjoy shabbat, not to bother us...</ref> | |||
==Women== | ==Women== | ||
