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Mikvaot: Difference between revisions
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===Natan Seah Vnatal Seah=== | ===Natan Seah Vnatal Seah=== | ||
# If a complete mikveh has drawn water put in and removed consecutively such that a majority of 40 seah of the original water was removed according to some rishonim it is completely valid, while according to others it is invalid. We are strict to avoid this but in extenuating circumstances if there’s no other mikveh available we can be lenient.<ref>The Rash (Mikvaot 7:2) and Rosh (Hilchot Mikvaot n. 1) hold that once there is a complete mikveh of 40 seah it can’t be invalidated by adding drawn water. The concept that the mishna invalidates a mikveh when something is consistently removed and replaced (natan seah vnatal seah) is referring to fruit juice and not drawn water. Rabbenu Tam (Sefer Hayashar 671) and Tosfot Rid (Bava Batra 66b) agree with this understanding of the Mishna. The Gemara Yevamot 82b adds that natan seah vnatal seah is only an issue after one removed a majority of the mikveh. The Teshuvat Rid 62, Tur, and Shulchan Aruch 201:24 accept the Rosh. Gra 201:59 agrees with Shulchan Aruch. | # If a complete mikveh has drawn water put in and removed consecutively such that a majority of 40 seah of the original water was removed according to some rishonim it is completely valid, while according to others it is invalid. We are strict to avoid this but in extenuating circumstances if there’s no other mikveh available we can be lenient.<ref>The Rash (Mikvaot 7:2) and Rosh (Hilchot Mikvaot n. 1) hold that once there is a complete mikveh of 40 seah it can’t be invalidated by adding drawn water. The concept that the mishna invalidates a mikveh when something is consistently removed and replaced (natan seah vnatal seah) is referring to fruit juice and not drawn water. Rabbenu Tam (Sefer Hayashar 671) and Tosfot Rid (Bava Batra 66b) agree with this understanding of the Mishna. The Gemara Yevamot 82b adds that natan seah vnatal seah is only an issue after one removed a majority of the mikveh. The Teshuvat Rid 62, Tur, and Shulchan Aruch 201:24 accept the Rosh. Gra 201:59 agrees with Shulchan Aruch. | ||
*However, the Rambam (Hilchot Mikvaot 7:6) understood the mishna to be speaking about drawn water and not fruit juice. Rashbam (Bava Batra 66a), Rabbenu Gershom (Bava Batra 66b), Raavan (Teshuva 28), and Raavad (Baalei Hanefesh p. 88) agree with Rambam's understanding of the mishna. Rashbatz 1:17 writes that we should avoid the dispute if it is easily avoidable. Rashbetz 3:12 writes that we should avoid this unless it is an extenuating circumstance. Shach 201:63 is strict. Igrot Moshe YD 1:119 writes that in extenuating circumstances it is possible to rely on S”A against Rambam. Chelkat Binyamin 201:377 agrees.</ref> | *However, the Rambam (Hilchot Mikvaot 7:6) understood the mishna to be speaking about drawn water and not fruit juice. Rashbam (Bava Batra 66a), Rabbenu Gershom (Bava Batra 66b), Raavan (Teshuva 28), and Raavad (Baalei Hanefesh p. 88) agree with Rambam's understanding of the mishna. Rashbatz 1:17 writes that we should avoid the dispute if it is easily avoidable. Rashbetz 3:12 writes that we should avoid this unless it is an extenuating circumstance. Shach 201:63 is strict. Igrot Moshe YD 1:119 writes that in extenuating circumstances it is possible to rely on S”A against Rambam. Chelkat Binyamin 201:377 agrees. | ||
*Mishkenot Yakov YD 46 writes that Rashi, Tosfot, Rashbam, Rambam, Raavad, Rabbenu Chananel and Aruch hold that natan seah vnatal seah is an issue for sheuvim and we should avoid the issue. However, he quotes that the minhag wasn't to be machmir for this and he seems to accept that as acceptable just not ideal. </ref> | |||
# Some say that the issue of natan seah vnatal seah is solved by having water flow into the mikveh and flow out since it isn’t similar to drawing water out with a vessel. Other disagree.<ref> | # Some say that the issue of natan seah vnatal seah is solved by having water flow into the mikveh and flow out since it isn’t similar to drawing water out with a vessel. Other disagree.<ref> | ||
Why is natan seah vnatal seah an issue? Bet Yosef 201:24 explains that the Rambam held that such a mikveh is invalid lest someone seeing this thinks that one can use a completely drawn mikveh. This is supported by the Ramban (Bava Batra 65b s.v. v’iy kasha) and Ran (Bava Batra 66b s.v. leolam). Ran writes that it is only an issue of marit ayin, but the fundamentally it is fine if the rain water depletes. The Divrei Chaim 201:20 argues that the Raavad held it is an invalidation since the original rainwater must remain at all times. Certain leniencies can be extrapolated from the Bet Yosef since the concern is only of onlookers. See Chatom Sofer 214. Har Tzvi 176 held like the Bet Yosef. Chelkat Binyamin 201:377 writes that Bet Yosef’s explanation is primary. Gidulei Tahara 26 writes that it is biblically invalid. Shevet Halevi 4:121 argues that it is only a rabbinic issue even according to the Raavad. Maharsham 1:135 agrees. | Why is natan seah vnatal seah an issue? Bet Yosef 201:24 explains that the Rambam held that such a mikveh is invalid lest someone seeing this thinks that one can use a completely drawn mikveh. This is supported by the Ramban (Bava Batra 65b s.v. v’iy kasha) and Ran (Bava Batra 66b s.v. leolam). Ran writes that it is only an issue of marit ayin, but the fundamentally it is fine if the rain water depletes. The Divrei Chaim 201:20 argues that the Raavad held it is an invalidation since the original rainwater must remain at all times. Certain leniencies can be extrapolated from the Bet Yosef since the concern is only of onlookers. See Chatom Sofer 214. Har Tzvi 176 held like the Bet Yosef. Chelkat Binyamin 201:377 writes that Bet Yosef’s explanation is primary. Gidulei Tahara 26 writes that it is biblically invalid. Shevet Halevi 4:121 argues that it is only a rabbinic issue even according to the Raavad. Maharsham 1:135 agrees. | ||
* Igrot Moshe YD 1:119 disagrees with the Chatom Sofer. He writes that natan seah and natal seah isn’t necessarily solved with putting in water through a pipe and having it flow out since it doesn’t look like it isn’t leaving. Firstly, it could be that the gezerah was in all cases and secondly, according to the Raavad it is problem intrinsically of removing the original rainwater.</ref> | * Igrot Moshe YD 1:119 disagrees with the Chatom Sofer. He writes that natan seah and natal seah isn’t necessarily solved with putting in water through a pipe and having it flow out since it doesn’t look like it isn’t leaving. Firstly, it could be that the gezerah was in all cases and secondly, according to the Raavad it is problem intrinsically of removing the original rainwater.</ref> | ||
# Some say that the issue of natan seah vnatal seah is solved by having water move along the ground for 3 tefachim before it enters the mikveh.<ref>Igrot Moshe YD 1:119 writes that one can use hamshacha even initially to pour water into a mikveh and even if water will flow out that wouldn’t be considered natan seah vnatal seah at all since hamshacha converts the water. However, Raavad 1:5 and Tashbetz 1:17 and 3:12 are clear that hamshacha doesn't solve this issue of natan seah vnatal seah.</ref> | # Some say that the issue of natan seah vnatal seah is solved by having water move along the ground for 3 tefachim before it enters the mikveh.<ref>Igrot Moshe YD 1:111 and 1:119 writes that one can use hamshacha even initially to pour water into a mikveh and even if water will flow out that wouldn’t be considered natan seah vnatal seah at all since hamshacha converts the water. However, Raavad 1:5 and Tashbetz 1:17 and 3:12 are clear that hamshacha doesn't solve this issue of natan seah vnatal seah. Birkei Yosef 201:44 quotes the Tashbetz about this. Rav Moshe disagrees with Tashbetz and Birkei Yosef.</ref> | ||
# Some say that the issue of natan seah vnatal seah is solved by having a temporary hashaka.<ref>Igrot Moshe YD 2:94, Divrei Chaim CM 1:37, Maharshag YD 65-66</ref> Others hold that this doesn't solve anything.<ref>Divrei Chayim (Mikvaot seif 20 in fnt. 20) writes that Raavad holds like Rabbenu Yerucham. Tzemech Tzedek (responsa 171), Rav Moshe Bick (Taharat Yom Tov 8:27), and Satmer Rebbe (Taharat Yom Tov 8:27) agree.</ref> | # Some say that the issue of natan seah vnatal seah is solved by having a temporary hashaka.<ref>Igrot Moshe YD 2:94, Divrei Chaim CM 1:37, Maharshag YD 65-66</ref> Others hold that this doesn't solve anything.<ref>Divrei Chayim (Mikvaot seif 20 in fnt. 20) writes that Raavad holds like Rabbenu Yerucham. Tzemech Tzedek (responsa 171), Rav Moshe Bick (Taharat Yom Tov 8:27), and Satmer Rebbe (Taharat Yom Tov 8:27) agree.</ref> | ||
