Soups: Difference between revisions
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*Bottom line: Vezot Habracha (Birur Halacha ch. 21 p. 269) writes that based on the above opinions there are several conditions to fulfill in order that the bracha be HaAdama: (A) It must be common to cook that vegetable (Rashba), (B) One's intent is to cook the vegetables to eat them and not just the water (Sh"t HaRosh), (C) The water must have absorbed the flavor of the vegetable (Rosh). (D) Majority of that type of vegetable is cooked and not eaten raw (Rashba). If one of these four conditions are lacking the bracha is shehakol. He cites Rav Pinchas Sheinberg that condition D is necessary. However, Halachos of [[Brachos]] (Rabbi Pinchas Bodner, chapter 23, pg 434, note 16) only requires conditions A, B, and C. The Laws of [[Brachos]] (chap 11, pg 329) only requires conditions A and B.</ref> However, Sephardim and some Ashkenazim hold that vegetable soup is [[Shehakol]] unless one also eats the vegetables. <ref>*VeZot HaBracha (chap 12, pg 119) rules that the vegetable soup which doesn't have vegetables in it are [[Shehakol]] because it doens't have a strong flavor like the soups which Chazal spoke about. | *Bottom line: Vezot Habracha (Birur Halacha ch. 21 p. 269) writes that based on the above opinions there are several conditions to fulfill in order that the bracha be HaAdama: (A) It must be common to cook that vegetable (Rashba), (B) One's intent is to cook the vegetables to eat them and not just the water (Sh"t HaRosh), (C) The water must have absorbed the flavor of the vegetable (Rosh). (D) Majority of that type of vegetable is cooked and not eaten raw (Rashba). If one of these four conditions are lacking the bracha is shehakol. He cites Rav Pinchas Sheinberg that condition D is necessary. However, Halachos of [[Brachos]] (Rabbi Pinchas Bodner, chapter 23, pg 434, note 16) only requires conditions A, B, and C. The Laws of [[Brachos]] (chap 11, pg 329) only requires conditions A and B.</ref> However, Sephardim and some Ashkenazim hold that vegetable soup is [[Shehakol]] unless one also eats the vegetables. <ref>*VeZot HaBracha (chap 12, pg 119) rules that the vegetable soup which doesn't have vegetables in it are [[Shehakol]] because it doens't have a strong flavor like the soups which Chazal spoke about. | ||
*Raah Brachot 39a argues on the Rif that vegetables soups are haadama that they are all shehakol just like fruit juices. He explains that the gemara meant that the bracha on the vegetable exempts the water but the water itself would have just been shehakol. Kaf HaChaim 205:11 rules that one should recite a shehakol because of the opinion of the Raah. Or Letzion 14:31 agrees. Similarly, Chazon Ovadyah ([[Brachot]] pg 164) holds that it's preferable to be concerned for the opinion of the Raah and make [[Shehakol]] on vegetables soup, however, if one made HaAdama on the actual vegetable it covers the liquid as well. [The Laws of [[Brachos]] (chap 11, pg 329-330) writes that if one eats the liquid without the vegetables or a minor amount of vegetables the liquid is primary, however, if one also eats the vegetables in the soup the Bracha is HaAdama on the vegetables and that also covers the liquid as well.]</ref> | *Raah Brachot 39a argues on the Rif that vegetables soups are haadama that they are all shehakol just like fruit juices. He explains that the gemara meant that the bracha on the vegetable exempts the water but the water itself would have just been shehakol. Kaf HaChaim 205:11 rules that one should recite a shehakol because of the opinion of the Raah. Or Letzion 14:31 agrees. Similarly, Chazon Ovadyah ([[Brachot]] pg 164) holds that it's preferable to be concerned for the opinion of the Raah and make [[Shehakol]] on vegetables soup, however, if one made HaAdama on the actual vegetable it covers the liquid as well. [The Laws of [[Brachos]] (chap 11, pg 329-330) writes that if one eats the liquid without the vegetables or a minor amount of vegetables the liquid is primary, however, if one also eats the vegetables in the soup the Bracha is HaAdama on the vegetables and that also covers the liquid as well.]</ref> | ||
===Vegetable Soup with Meat=== | |||
#Vegetable soup with a lot of vegetables and a little chicken or meat is haadama.<ref>Mishna Brurah 205:13, Rivevot Efraim 1:151:9, Piskei Teshuvot 205:7, Vezot Habracha p. 117 fnt. 8 quoting Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and Rav Tzvi Weber</ref> Regarding chicken soup with vegetables see further. | |||
===Carrot Soup=== | ===Carrot Soup=== | ||
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==Chicken Soup and Meat Soup== | ==Chicken Soup and Meat Soup== | ||
#Chicken soup | # Chicken soup without vegetables is shehakol whether or not it has chicken.<ref>Vezot Habracha p. 117, Shulchan Aruch O.C. 205:2</ref> | ||
# Chicken soup with vegetables:<ref>The Rosh Brachot 6:18 writes that if a person has vegetable soup broth the bracha is haadama but if meat is added the bracha is shehakol since the taste of the meat is primary compared to the vegetables. The Shulchan Aruch O.C. 205:2 rules like the Rosh. Therefore, the broth of chicken soup without vegetables is shehakol. However, if one is eating it with the vegetables, making a haadama on the vegetables exempts the broth as well (Mishna Brurah 205:9). | |||
* With respect to soup with vegetables and chicken or meat, Mishna Brurah 205:13 seems to conclude that the bracha on the vegetables exempts the broth as well as the meat. Indeed, Rivivot Ephraim 1:151:9 writes that since the vegetables are in the majority they are primary compared to the meat and the bracha on vegetables exempts everything else. This is based on the idea that if there's two ingredients in a mixture that one intends to eat both of them, we follow majority and not whichever is more significant. This is also the opinion of the Rav Poalim 2:33. However, Tzitz Eliezer 11:46:3 disagrees and follows the more significant food. His discussion is regarding chullent with just vegetables, meat, and broth and he says it is shehakol because it is more significant. Rivevot Efraim notes this point of contention in his conclusion. It seems Vezot Habracha p. 119 subscribes to this approach as well. | |||
* Piskei Teshuvot 205:7 notes that if there's a small amount of vegetables then the bracha on the meat or chicken exempts everything, but if there are large vegetables then one should recite two brachot. | |||
* Vezot Habracha p. 119 distinguishes between chicken soup with vegetables and vegetable soup with chicken or meat. In the first case it is primarily a chicken soup and so the bracha is shehakol and the vegetables are there just to enhance the chicken soup, so it is all shehakol. However, even then if the vegetables are large and one intends to eat them for their own taste then two brachot are necessary. This point he quotes from Rav Elyashiv. If it is a vegetable soup then it is haadama and the meat isn't significant relative to the vegetables even though it is more significant relative to the broth. He quotes this distinction from Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and Rav Tzvi Weber.</ref> | |||
## If there's a lot of chicken and there's only a few small vegetables, the bracha is shehakol since the chicken is the majority and is more significant than the vegetables.<ref>Vezot Habracha p. 117, Rivevot Efraim 1:151:9, Piskei Teshuvot 205:7</ref> | |||
## If there's a lot of chicken and a lot of vegetables, some say to recite two brachot; shehakol is recited on the soup and chicken and a haadama is recited on a vegetable separated from the soup.<ref>Vezot Habracha p. 119</ref> Other poskim disagree and say that one should recite the bracha on the majority ingredient and if there's a majority of vegetables compared to the chicken the bracha is haadama for the whole soup.<ref>Rivevot Efraim 1:151:9</ref> This discussion only applies if one is eating the vegetables for their own taste and satiation, however, if they're just to enhance the soup the bracha is shehakol and they're exempt.<ref>Vezot Habracha p. 119</ref> | |||
## If there's a little bit of chicken and a lot of vegetables, some say to recite two brachot; shehakol is recited on the soup and chicken and a haadama is recited on a vegetable separated from the soup.<ref>Vezot Habracha p. 119</ref> Other poskim disagree and say that one should recite haadama for the whole soup.<ref>Rivevot Efraim, Piskei Teshuvot</ref> Essentially this is a similar dispute to the previous halacha except that more opinions agree with the latter opinion. | |||
#If someone is only eating vegetables and broth and not chicken the bracha haadama on the vegetables exempts the broth.<ref>Mishna Brurah 205:9</ref> | #If someone is only eating vegetables and broth and not chicken the bracha haadama on the vegetables exempts the broth.<ref>Mishna Brurah 205:9</ref> | ||
#If someone is only eating the broth of chicken soup and not the chicken or vegetables the bracha is Shehakol.<ref>Rosh Brachot 6:18, Shulchan Aruch O.C. 205:2</ref> | #If someone is only eating the broth of chicken soup and not the chicken or vegetables the bracha is Shehakol.<ref>Rosh Brachot 6:18, Shulchan Aruch O.C. 205:2</ref> | ||
