Shinui Makom: Difference between revisions
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# Moving in an open area outdoors is not considered a Shinui Makom if it’s still possible to see the place from where one started.<Ref>Bet Yosef 178:1 commenting on Rambam Brachot 4:5, Mishna Brurah 178:25, Vezot HaBracha (pg 57, chapter 6) </ref> | # Moving in an open area outdoors is not considered a Shinui Makom if it’s still possible to see the place from where one started.<Ref>Bet Yosef 178:1 commenting on Rambam Brachot 4:5, Mishna Brurah 178:25, Vezot HaBracha (pg 57, chapter 6) </ref> | ||
# Moving in an enclosed area outdoors (like a fenced in area) is not considered a Shinui Makom even if one can’t see the place from where one started. <Ref>Mishna Brurah 178:25, Vezot HaBracha (pg 57, chapter 6), see there what he quotes in name of Rav Elyashiv regarding an enclosure of an eruv of [[Shabbat]]. Bet Yosef 178:1 quotes the Orchot Chaim Brachot 18 who writes that moving from part of an enclosed garden or orchard to another is a shinui makom unless one had intention to move around. Yet, moving from one enclosed garden or orchard to another even with intention it is a shinui makom.</ref> | # Moving in an enclosed area outdoors (like a fenced in area) is not considered a Shinui Makom even if one can’t see the place from where one started. <Ref>Mishna Brurah 178:25, Vezot HaBracha (pg 57, chapter 6), see there what he quotes in name of Rav Elyashiv regarding an enclosure of an eruv of [[Shabbat]]. Bet Yosef 178:1 quotes the Orchot Chaim Brachot 18 who writes that moving from part of an enclosed garden or orchard to another is a shinui makom unless one had intention to move around. Yet, moving from one enclosed garden or orchard to another even with intention it is a shinui makom.</ref> | ||
# If someone goes to the bathroom in the same house it is not a shinuy makom whether one was eating bread or a snack.<ref>Halacha Brurah 178:23 writes that there's no shinuy makom going to the bathroom even in the middle of a snack since it is normal and necessary to go to the bathroom. Even according to those who hold that there is a shinuy makom from room to room there is no shinuy makom going to the bathroom. However, Mishna Brurah (178:26 and Biur Halacha s.v. kgon) holds that it is a shinuy makom when leaving the house to go to the bathroom in he middle of a snack. Piskei Teshuvot 178:20 limit the Mishna Brurah to leaving the house but if it is a room in the house it is not a shinuy makom. Halacha Brurah cites Zichronot Eliyahu Brachot 300:7, Daat Torah 178, Igrot Moshe 5:16:10, Shulchan Aruch Harav 178:8, Chemdat Avraham 3:11, Birkat Yehuda 1:5 unlike his father in Halichot Olam (v. 2 end of Bahalotcha) who holds that going to the bathroom is a shinuy makom. Yalkut Yosef (178, 5764 edition), agreed with his father that it is a shinuy makom since we don't intend to eat in the bathroom since it is forbidden to eat there. Yalkut Yosef (5771 edition, p. 37, 178:26) agrees with Halacha Brurah and writes that his father agreed with him that going to the bathroom is not a shinuy makom if it is within the same house. Also, technically it is permitted to eat there. However, regarding an outhouse he writes (5771 edition, p. 34 178:8) that it is a shinuy makom during a snack.</ref> | |||
===Cases that are in doubt and are preferable to avoid=== | ===Cases that are in doubt and are preferable to avoid=== | ||
# In the first place one may not switch from place to place from room to room under one roof (unless one had intention originally or can see from room to room). However, after the fact it is not considered a Shinui Makom. <Ref> Beiur Halacha 178:1 s.v. Bayit, Vezot HaBracha (pg 56, chapter 6). [See the Beiur Halacha who writes that those who commonly move from room to room have what to rely on.] Tosfot Pesachim 101b s.v. elah holds that changing from room to room is a shinuy makom.</ref> | # In the first place one may not switch from place to place from room to room under one roof (unless one had intention originally or can see from room to room). However, after the fact it is not considered a Shinui Makom. <Ref> Beiur Halacha 178:1 s.v. Bayit, Vezot HaBracha (pg 56, chapter 6). [See the Beiur Halacha who writes that those who commonly move from room to room have what to rely on.] Tosfot Pesachim 101b s.v. elah holds that changing from room to room is a shinuy makom. This is also the opinion of the Rambam Brachot 4:5, Rosh Pesachim 1:6, and Tur 178:1.</ref> | ||
# Moving from an apartment to the stairwell of the [[building]] is a dispute and certainly in the first place one shouldn’t move from an apartment to a stairwell. After the fact, one shouldn’t consider it as a Shinui Makom that would require a new Bracha. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 56, chapter 6) brings a dispute between Rav Elyashiv and Rav Shlomo Zalman and concludes that one shouldn’t move there while eating, however, after the fact one shouldn’t make a new Bracha, yet it’s preferable to leave the [[building]] to require a new Bracha according to all opinions. </ref> | # Moving from an apartment to the stairwell of the [[building]] is a dispute and certainly in the first place one shouldn’t move from an apartment to a stairwell. After the fact, one shouldn’t consider it as a Shinui Makom that would require a new Bracha. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 56, chapter 6) brings a dispute between Rav Elyashiv and Rav Shlomo Zalman and concludes that one shouldn’t move there while eating, however, after the fact one shouldn’t make a new Bracha, yet it’s preferable to leave the [[building]] to require a new Bracha according to all opinions. </ref> | ||
# Moving from an apartment to the porch which is roofed is considered like moving from room to room and should be avoided but after the fact isn’t a Shinui Makom. However, going to a porch that’s unroofed is a dispute and one should certainly not change places to there, however, after the fact it isn’t considered a Shinui Makom. <Ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 56-7 chapter 6) </ref> | # Moving from an apartment to the porch which is roofed is considered like moving from room to room and should be avoided but after the fact isn’t a Shinui Makom. However, going to a porch that’s unroofed is a dispute and one should certainly not change places to there, however, after the fact it isn’t considered a Shinui Makom. <Ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 56-7 chapter 6) </ref> | ||
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# Even if one can see from house to house (or outside), moving there will be a doubtful Shinui and so it should be avoided, however, if one did move there, no Bracha is required. <Ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 58 #4, chapter 6) </ref> | # Even if one can see from house to house (or outside), moving there will be a doubtful Shinui and so it should be avoided, however, if one did move there, no Bracha is required. <Ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 58 #4, chapter 6) </ref> | ||
===Having intention to move=== | ===Having intention to move=== | ||
# If before one starts to eat a bread meal one has in mind to move from place to place, according to Ashkenazim, one is initially allowed to move places and say [[Birkat HaMazon]] in the second place.<ref>Mishna Brurah 178:33 and 40 writes that it is permitted even initially to move from one house to another during a meal if one had intent to do so during one began the meal. Shulchan Aruch HaRav 178:5 agrees. See the Aruch Hashulchan 178:8 who cites this approach but recommends only doing so in the case of a mitzvah need.</ref> (This is a common practice by chasidim on Friday nights moving from their meals to the Rebbe's Tisch.) | # If before one starts to eat a bread meal one has in mind to move from place to place, according to Ashkenazim, one is initially allowed to move places and say [[Birkat HaMazon]] in the second place.<ref>Mishna Brurah 178:33 and 40 writes that it is permitted even initially to move from one house to another during a meal if one had intent to do so during one began the meal. Shulchan Aruch HaRav 178:5 agrees. See the Aruch Hashulchan 178:8 who cites this approach but recommends only doing so in the case of a mitzvah need. Raavad on Rambam Brachot 4:5 establishes that having intention prevents a shinui makom, though it is unclear his scope. Orchot Chaim Brachot 18 cited by Bet Yosef 178:1 limits the Raavad to an enclosed area but not going from one enclosed area to another one.</ref> (This is a common practice by chasidim on Friday nights moving from their meals to the Rebbe's Tisch.) | ||
# Amongst Sephardim having intent to move houses during a meal is discouraged and even if one has intent to move during the meal one shouldn't do so initially.<ref>[http://ph.yhb.org.il/10-03-11/ Peninei Halacha] cites the Ben Ish Chai (Bahalotcha n. 2) as saying that having intent to move during the meal is sufficient, however, Yalkut Yosef 178:1 argues. </ref> However, even according to Sephardim, if one started one's meal on the doorstep as if he was ready to leave the house, he may move during the meal since he didn't establish a place for his meal.<ref>Or Letzion 2:12:15</ref> | # Amongst Sephardim having intent to move houses during a meal is discouraged and even if one has intent to move during the meal one shouldn't do so initially.<ref>[http://ph.yhb.org.il/10-03-11/ Peninei Halacha] cites the Ben Ish Chai (Bahalotcha n. 2) as saying that having intent to move during the meal is sufficient, however, Yalkut Yosef 178:1 argues. </ref> However, even according to Sephardim, if one started one's meal on the doorstep as if he was ready to leave the house, he may move during the meal since he didn't establish a place for his meal.<ref>Or Letzion 2:12:15</ref> | ||
===Eating on the Go=== | ===Eating on the Go=== | ||
# It is permissible for a person to start eating intending to continue eating as he travels. Then it is permissible to continue to eat as he is changing places and that isn't considered a change in locations since he didn't originally establish a place for his meal.<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 178:4, Magen Avraham 178:11, Mishna Brurah 178:43. </ref> | # It is permissible for a person to start eating intending to continue eating as he travels. Then it is permissible to continue to eat as he is changing places and that isn't considered a change in locations since he didn't originally establish a place for his meal.<ref>Shulchan Aruch O.C. 178:4, Magen Avraham 178:11, Mishna Brurah 178:43. </ref> | ||
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==Which Foods does Shinui Makom apply to?== | ==Which Foods does Shinui Makom apply to?== | ||
# If one had a [[Kezayit]] of bread there’s no Shinui Makom whether one leaves that place and returns or if one leaves that place and goes to another place, no new [[Bracha Rishona]] is needed. <ref>Rav Chisda in Pesachim 101b, Rama O.C. 178:2, Vezot HaBracha (pg 60, chapter 6). Do we follow Rav Chisda or Rav Sheshet? Tosfot Pesachim 101b s.v. elah rules like Rav Chisda, | # If one had a [[Kezayit]] of bread there’s no Shinui Makom whether one leaves that place and returns or if one leaves that place and goes to another place, no new [[Bracha Rishona]] is needed. <ref>Rav Chisda in Pesachim 101b, Rama O.C. 178:2, Vezot HaBracha (pg 60, chapter 6). Do we follow Rav Chisda or Rav Sheshet? Tosfot Pesachim 101b s.v. elah rules like Rav Chisda. Rosh Pesachim 1:6 agrees. On the other hand, Rabbenu Chananel 102a rules like Rav Sheshet. Rif Pesachim 20b, Rambam Brachot 4:4 (as per Kesef Mishna there), and Baal Hameor 20b concur with Rabbenu Chananel.</ref> Even by bread, initially, one may not move from house to house unless one had intent to do so from the beginning. <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 60, chapter 6) </ref> | ||
# If one had less than a [[Kezayit]] of bread, [[Mezonot]], or Shivat HaMinim (grapes, figs, pomegranates, olives, dates) it’s like all other foods and if one changes places a new Bracha would be required. <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 60, chapter 6) </ref> | # If one had less than a [[Kezayit]] of bread, [[Mezonot]], or Shivat HaMinim (grapes, figs, pomegranates, olives, dates) it’s like all other foods and if one changes places a new Bracha would be required. <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 60, chapter 6) </ref> | ||
# Even by bread, initially one may not make a Shinui for an extended period of time because one may forget to return and make Birkat haMazon, however, it’s permissible to make a Shinui for a short time. In order to perform a mitzvah, it’s permissible to leave the area for a long time, however, one should make sure not to forget the [[Bracha Achrona]] within Shuir Ikul. If one is afraid that one will forget, then one should make the [[Bracha Achrona]] before moving to the other place. <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 61, chapter 6) </ref> | # Even by bread, initially one may not make a Shinui for an extended period of time because one may forget to return and make Birkat haMazon, however, it’s permissible to make a Shinui for a short time. In order to perform a mitzvah, it’s permissible to leave the area for a long time, however, one should make sure not to forget the [[Bracha Achrona]] within Shuir Ikul. If one is afraid that one will forget, then one should make the [[Bracha Achrona]] before moving to the other place. <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 61, chapter 6) </ref> | ||
# If one had a [[Kezayit]] of [[Mezonot]] or the other Shivat HaMinim (7 Species of which [[Israel]] is praised), initially one should be careful not to make a Shinui, and if one needs to leave, then one should make a [[Bracha Achrona]] on that which one ate, move places, and then make a new [[Bracha Rishona]]. However, after the fact (that one didn’t make a [[Bracha Achrona]]), no new Bracha is needed. <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 59-60, chapter 6) <br /> | # If one had a [[Kezayit]] of [[Mezonot]] or the other Shivat HaMinim (7 Species of which [[Israel]] is praised), initially one should be careful not to make a Shinui, and if one needs to leave, then one should make a [[Bracha Achrona]] on that which one ate, move places, and then make a new [[Bracha Rishona]]. However, after the fact (that one didn’t make a [[Bracha Achrona]]), no new Bracha is needed. <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 59-60, chapter 6) <br /> | ||
Shulchan Aruch O.C. 678:5 quotes the Rambam and the Rashbam Pesachim 101b s.v. aval that all shivat haminim (including Ha’motzi and Mezonot foods) require a bracha achrona in their place. However, the Shulchan Aruch also cites the Rosh that only grain products (both Ha’motzi and Mezonot) require a bracha achrona in their place. Tosfot Pesachim 101b s.v. elah | Shulchan Aruch O.C. 678:5 quotes the Rambam Brachot 4:1 and the Rashbam Pesachim 101b s.v. aval that all shivat haminim (including Ha’motzi and Mezonot foods) require a bracha achrona in their place. Hagahot Maimoniyot Brachot 4:1 cites Rabbenu Simcha and Rashi who agree. Mordechai Pesachim 101b quotes the Ravyah who concurs. However, the Shulchan Aruch also cites the Rosh that only grain products (both Ha’motzi and Mezonot) require a bracha achrona in their place. Tosfot Pesachim 101b s.v. elah is certain that wine and shivat haminim don't require a bracha in their place and isn't sure about mezonot products. Hagahot Maimoniyot Brachot 4:1 cites that the Rif and Rav Amram Goan hold that only bread requires a bracha in its place. The Rama however holds that only bread requires a bracha achrona in its place. The Mishna Brurah 178:5 quotes achronim who write that one should be stringent even regarding the shivat haminim to return to one’s place to bentch on these foods. However, the Mishna Brurah also quotes the Gra who holds that only for grain products must one return to his original place.</ref> | ||
==If one made a Shinui Makom== | ==If one made a Shinui Makom== | ||
# The result of a Shinui Makom is only that one must make a new [[Bracha Rishona]] but it does not effect the [[Bracha Achrona]] and so if one ate fruit and then changed places only a new [[Bracha Rishona]] is required.<ref>Tosfot Pesachim 101b s.v. shehen, Vezot HaBracha (pg 60, chapter 6) </ref> | # The result of a Shinui Makom is only that one must make a new [[Bracha Rishona]] but it does not effect the [[Bracha Achrona]] and so if one ate fruit and then changed places only a new [[Bracha Rishona]] is required.<ref>Tosfot Pesachim 101b s.v. shehen, Rosh Pesachim 10:6, Mordechai Pesachim 101b s.v. kshehen, Tur 178:1, Vezot HaBracha (pg 60, chapter 6). Tosfot explains that only a new bracha rishona is necessary since a shinui makom is like a hesech hadaat, interruption of thought. However, it would not require a bracha achrona as that can be exempted with the bracha achrona after the second eating. Ramban (Milchamot Hashem Pesachim 19b) argues that shinui makom is more significant than a regular hesech hadaat. It is a complete uproot of one's meal and requires a bracha achrona and another bracha rishona when one wants to eat again. Baal Hameor 19b agrees for another reason. He says that you need a bracha achrona before the next bracha rishona because each bracha rishona requires a separate bracha achrona. Since the new meal in the new place is independent with respect to the bracha rishona, so too for bracha achrona it needs a separate bracha achrona. </ref> | ||
==When it is permissible initially== | ==When it is permissible initially== | ||
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# For a Mitzvah (going to daven in a [[minyan]] if there’s no others, going to a funeral) it’s permissible to leave the place without making [[Birkat HaMazon]]. <Ref> Yalkut Yosef ([[Brachot]] pg 216) </ref> | # For a Mitzvah (going to daven in a [[minyan]] if there’s no others, going to a funeral) it’s permissible to leave the place without making [[Birkat HaMazon]]. <Ref> Yalkut Yosef ([[Brachot]] pg 216) </ref> | ||
===Other foods=== | ===Other foods=== | ||
# For foods that have a [[Bracha Achrona]] of [[Boreh Nefashot]] (drinks besides wine, fruit and vegetables besides Shivat HaMinim), one should make a [[Bracha Achrona]] in the place where one ate, however, after the fact (even if one didn’t have in mind to change places) if one goes to another room (even on another floor) no new Bracha is necessary. However, if one leaves the house, a new Bracha is required. <Ref> Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 219, Kitzur S”A 178:9, and 11), Halichot Olam (vol 2 pg 41) </ref> | # For foods that have a [[Bracha Achrona]] of [[Boreh Nefashot]] (drinks besides wine, fruit and vegetables besides Shivat HaMinim), one should make a [[Bracha Achrona]] in the place where one ate, however, after the fact (even if one didn’t have in mind to change places) if one goes to another room (even on another floor) no new Bracha is necessary. However, if one leaves the house, a new Bracha is required.<Ref> Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 219, Kitzur S”A 178:9, and 11), Halichot Olam (vol 2 pg 41) </ref> | ||
# Leaving a room and walking to a separate stairwell room is considered an interruption and another [[Bracha Rishona]] is required, however, walking up stairs that are in the house isn’t an interruption. <Ref> Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 224 and 233, Kitzur S”A 28) </ref> | # Leaving a room and walking to a separate stairwell room is considered an interruption and another [[Bracha Rishona]] is required, however, walking up stairs that are in the house isn’t an interruption.<Ref> Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 224 and 233, Kitzur S”A 28) </ref> | ||
# Leaving to the courtyard is considered an interruption and another [[Bracha Rishona]] would be required. <Ref> Sh”t Yechave Daat 6:11, Sh”t Yabia Omer O”C 6:27, Sh”t Chazon Ovadyah 1:18, Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 224) </ref> | # Leaving to the courtyard is considered an interruption and another [[Bracha Rishona]] would be required. <Ref> Sh”t Yechave Daat 6:11, Sh”t Yabia Omer O”C 6:27, Sh”t Chazon Ovadyah 1:18, Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 224) </ref> | ||
# If one was eating fruit of the Shivat HaMinim (grapes, figs, pomegranates, olives, dates) or [[Mezonot]] and one left the house no new Bracha is needed, however, if one didn’t eat a [[Kezayit]] of the fruit before leaving then a new Bracha is needed upon leaving the house. However, if one was eating together with others and some remain in the place one began eating and one left and returned, no new Bracha is needed. <Ref> Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 220, Kitzur S”A 178:10), Halichot Olam (vol 2 pg 41) </ref> | # If one was eating fruit of the Shivat HaMinim (grapes, figs, pomegranates, olives, dates) or [[Mezonot]] and one left the house no new Bracha is needed, however, if one didn’t eat a [[Kezayit]] of the fruit before leaving then a new Bracha is needed upon leaving the house. However, if one was eating together with others and some remain in the place one began eating and one left and returned, no new Bracha is needed. <Ref> Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 220, Kitzur S”A 178:10), Halichot Olam (vol 2 pg 41) </ref> | ||
#After the fact if one left one room and went to another room that is not a shinuy makom after the fact and no new bracha is necessary.<ref>Yalkut Yosef 178:1, Halacha Brurah 178:1</ref> Some say that if one has intention to move room to room it is permitted even initially.<ref>Halacha Brurah 178:1, Or Letzion 2:12:15, Vezot Habracha p. 64. Yalkut Yosef 178 fnt. 8 implies that there's what to rely upon to follow the Ben Ish Chai (Bahalotcha 4) who allows having intention to move room to room. Otzrot Yosef 9:4 brings a proof from Shulchan Aruch O.C. 273:1 that he accepts having intention to move from room to room like Rama 178:1. However, Gra on 178:3 notes that it seems to be a dispute between the Rambam and Raavad and the Shulchan Aruch 178:2 follows the Rambam.</ref> | |||
===Eating on the walk=== | ===Eating on the walk=== | ||
# If one eats on the walk or had intent to eat on the way, whether it’s bread, [[Mezonot]], or fruit, one doesn’t need a new Bracha even if one makes a Shinui Makom. <Ref>Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 220-2) </ref>For example, if one made a [[Shehakol]] on gum in the house and then walks out of the house, and even if one has more gum a new [[Shehakol]] isn’t necessary as long as one had intent originally to eat on the walk. <Ref>Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 223) </ref> | # If one eats on the walk or had intent to eat on the way, whether it’s bread, [[Mezonot]], or fruit, one doesn’t need a new Bracha even if one makes a Shinui Makom. <Ref>Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 220-2) </ref>For example, if one made a [[Shehakol]] on gum in the house and then walks out of the house, and even if one has more gum a new [[Shehakol]] isn’t necessary as long as one had intent originally to eat on the walk. <Ref>Yalkut Yosef (vol 3 pg 223) </ref> | ||
