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Sharp Foods: Difference between revisions
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# If an onion was cut with a meat knife and put into a parve soup cooked in a dairy pot that wasn't used within 24 hours for dairy the pot is permitted and the food shouldn't be eaten with dairy.<ref>Dvar Charif p. 179 is lenient since it is nat bar nat of hetera in the pot since it is eino ben yomo. Even for the minhag of the Rama 94:5 it isn't necessary to be strict since we can include the opinion that onions aren't charif.</ref> | # If an onion was cut with a meat knife and put into a parve soup cooked in a dairy pot that wasn't used within 24 hours for dairy the pot is permitted and the food shouldn't be eaten with dairy.<ref>Dvar Charif p. 179 is lenient since it is nat bar nat of hetera in the pot since it is eino ben yomo. Even for the minhag of the Rama 94:5 it isn't necessary to be strict since we can include the opinion that onions aren't charif.</ref> | ||
# If an onion was cut with a meat knife and put into a parve soup cooked in a dairy pot that was used within 24 hours for dairy, some say that the pot is permitted and the food shouldn't be eaten with dairy.<ref>Dvar Charif p. 176 Chedrei Deah 96 and Maharil Diskin 14 based on the opinion of Shulchan Aruch 95:3 that nat bar nat of milk and meat meeting in the water is permitted as well as the Maharam that onions aren't sharp.</ref> But many are strict.<ref>Dvar Charif p. 177 citing Yad Yehuda Pirush Haaruch 95:16 arguing that we can't be lenient based on the Shulchan Aruch 95:3 since the Rama disagrees with that completely.</ref> | # If an onion was cut with a meat knife and put into a parve soup cooked in a dairy pot that was used within 24 hours for dairy, some say that the pot is permitted and the food shouldn't be eaten with dairy.<ref>Dvar Charif p. 176 Chedrei Deah 96 and Maharil Diskin 14 based on the opinion of Shulchan Aruch 95:3 that nat bar nat of milk and meat meeting in the water is permitted as well as the Maharam that onions aren't sharp.</ref> But many are strict.<ref>Dvar Charif p. 177 citing Yad Yehuda Pirush Haaruch 95:16 arguing that we can't be lenient based on the Shulchan Aruch 95:3 since the Rama disagrees with that completely.</ref> | ||
# If a dairy knife is used to cut an onion and it is then put in a meat food if that meat food is liquidy such as a soup and is sixty times the width of the knife the entire mixture and onion is permitted.<ref>The Shulchan Aruch YD 94:6 writes that if vegetables absorb taste of meat and they are then cooked in a milk pot if it can be ascertained how much meat was absorbed in the vegetables, if in the pot there's sixty times the meat everything is permitted. The Rama explains that we don't say that the meat taste should expand to the size of the vegetables since they are all permitted. Maharam Lublin 28 writes that this principle is also true in a case of an onion cooked with a meat knife that is cooked with milk that if there's sixty times the meat that the knife absorbed in the milk it is permitted. Shach 94:23 codifies this. Rabbi Akiva Eiger 94:7 questions this as Shulchan Aruch implies that only if the food is cooked in a milk pot is the vegetables permitted but not if it is cooked in milk. His reasoning is that once milk is absorbed into the vegetables it becomes forbidden. </ref> | |||
==Teyma== | ==Teyma== | ||
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# There is a dispute if one cuts a sharp food with an eino ben yomo meat knife if the sharp food is considered meat. The halacha is to be strict.<ref> | # There is a dispute if one cuts a sharp food with an eino ben yomo meat knife if the sharp food is considered meat. The halacha is to be strict.<ref> | ||
* Sefer Hatrumah siman 60 holds that if one uses a meat knife to cut an onion the onion is considered meat even if the knife wasn't used within 24 hours for meat. The reason is that since the sharp food draws out a taste more powerfully than other foods it makes the absorption in the wall reinvigorated and taste good even though it was 24 hours. The Tosfot Chullin 111a s.v. agav also suggests this position. The Rambam Maachalot Asurot 9:24 (as understood by Bet Yosef 96:2) argues that a sharp food is only effective if the pot was used within 24 hours. | * Sefer Hatrumah siman 60 holds that if one uses a meat knife to cut an onion the onion is considered meat even if the knife wasn't used within 24 hours for meat. The reason is that since the sharp food draws out a taste more powerfully than other foods it makes the absorption in the wall reinvigorated and taste good even though it was 24 hours. The Tosfot Chullin 111a s.v. agav also suggests this position. The Rambam Maachalot Asurot 9:24 (as understood by Bet Yosef 96:2) argues that a sharp food is only effective if the pot was used within 24 hours. | ||
* Shulchan Aruch YD 96:1 cites the rishonim who are lenient as long as the knife was eino ben yomo and then quotes the Sefer Hatrumah as some say to be strict. See also Shulchan Aruch YD 96:3, 103:6, and 114:8. Kaf Hachaim 96:11 explains that we're concerned for both opinions. Shach 96:6 and Badei Hashulchan 96:20 | * Shulchan Aruch YD 96:1 cites the rishonim who are lenient as long as the knife was eino ben yomo and then quotes the Sefer Hatrumah as some say to be strict. See also Shulchan Aruch YD 96:3, 103:6, and 114:8. Kaf Hachaim 96:11 explains that we're concerned for both opinions. The Rama 96:2-3 is strict for the Sefer Hatrumah as and that is the consensus of Ashkenazic poskim including the Shach 96:6, Aruch Hashulchan 96:4, and Badei Hashulchan 96:20. | ||
* Bet Meir YD 96:3 writes that we're not concerned after the fact if a sharp food was cut with a meat knife which was eino ben yomo and added to a dairy food or the opposite. His reasoning is that it is two chumrot to say that nat bar nat is treated as one transference of taste and also to say that if it is eino ben yomo we treat it as ben yomo. </ref> | * Bet Meir YD 96:3 writes that we're not concerned after the fact if a sharp food was cut with a meat knife which was eino ben yomo and added to a dairy food or the opposite. His reasoning is that it is two chumrot to say that nat bar nat is treated as one transference of taste and also to say that if it is eino ben yomo we treat it as ben yomo.</ref> Some say this is only rabbinic while most assume it is Biblical.<ref>[http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=947&st=&pgnum=41 Knesset Yechezkel 24] writes that the fact that a dvar charif only reinvigorates eino ben yomo taste is only rabbinic.</ref> Some Sephardim hold that if the meat knife was eino ben yomo when used to cut a parve sharp food the sharp food is still parve.<ref> | ||
Shulchan Aruch YD 96:1 cites the dispute whether a dvar charif can reinvigorate tastes in pots that weren't used within 24 hours. The primary opinion is lenient. This is reiterated in Y.D. 96:3 and O.C. 447:8. However, Shulchan Aruch YD 103:6 quotes an opinion that a dvar charif reinvigorates taste that wasn't used within 24 hours. This is reiterated in YD 114:8. The Peleti 96:5 answers that Shulchan Aruch held that we only assume a dvar charif reinvigorates taste if it originally forbidden, but for something that was originally permitted it doesn't since there is also the factor of nat bar nat. This corroborated by many achronim cited by Yabia Omer 8:43:5 including Eliya Rabba 447:24, Chachmat Adam (Binat Adam Shaar Isur Vheter 48), Pri Megadim M"Z 96:10, Rabbi Akiva Eiger (on Taz 96:16 in first approach), and Knesset Hagedola (hagahot hatur 96:18). Yabia Omer OC 8:43:5, Yalkut Yosef Isur Vheter v. 2 p. 12 and 362, and Horah Brurah 96:11 agree that for eino ben yomo and for heter dvar charif isn't an issue. It is only a problem for when using a prohibited knife or a meat knife to cut something sharp that is dairy.</ref> | |||
# If someone cooks a parve sharp food in a pot that is eino ben yomo that cooking doesn't make the pot considered as though it is ben yomo.<ref>Shach 95:7 and 122:2 writes that using a dvar charif doesn't reinvigorate the taste in the pot that it should be considered ben yomo. Chachmat Adam 48:16, Chavot Daat 95:8, Pri Chadash 122:2, and Aruch Hashulchan 122:9 agree with the Shach. Nekudat Hakesef the son of the Shach 122 argues with his father. Dvar Charif p. 74 is lenient. He points out that the Magen Avraham 451:31 who holds that even nat bar nat bar nat is forbidden with a dvar charif this too would be forbidden.</ref> | |||
==Sources== | ==Sources== | ||
<references/> | <references/> | ||
[[Category:Kashrut]] | [[Category:Kashrut]] | ||
