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Required Amount of Matzah and Wine for the Seder: Difference between revisions
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Required Amount of Matzah and Wine for the Seder (view source)
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* Beit Yosef 472:9 quotes the Kol Bo and Orchot Chaim, who say that if a cup holds many Reviyot, one still has to drink only a Revi’it. The Ramban, however, argues that one must drink majority of the cup even if it is larger than a Revi’it. Although S”A 472:9 rules like the Kol Bo, if one doesn’t plan on drinking a lot, Mishna Brurah 472:33 advises having a cup that holds only a Revi’it in order to satisfy the opinion of the Ramban. </ref> | * Beit Yosef 472:9 quotes the Kol Bo and Orchot Chaim, who say that if a cup holds many Reviyot, one still has to drink only a Revi’it. The Ramban, however, argues that one must drink majority of the cup even if it is larger than a Revi’it. Although S”A 472:9 rules like the Kol Bo, if one doesn’t plan on drinking a lot, Mishna Brurah 472:33 advises having a cup that holds only a Revi’it in order to satisfy the opinion of the Ramban. </ref> | ||
===How much must one drink=== | ===How much must one drink=== | ||
# Preferably, one should drink a Revi’it of wine for each of the 4 cups of wine at [[the Seder]]. If this is difficult, one fulfills his obligation by drinking the majority of a Revi’it for each cup.<Ref> * The Gemara (Pesachim 108b) states that each of the 4 cups at the seder must contain a Revi’it of wine. Additionally, Rabbi Yitzchak (Pesachim 109a) says that a certain measuring cup in Tzipori held the volume of a Log and they would use it to measure the Revi’it for [[Pesach]]. Rashbam (109a s.v. U’vah) explains that each of the 4 cups had to hold a Revi’it of a Log and altogether that would equal a Log, the exact volume of the cup in Tzipori. Rambam (Chametz UMatzah 7:7), Tur, and S”A 472:9 codify this as halacha. | # Preferably, one should drink a Revi’it of wine for each of the 4 cups of wine at [[the Seder]]. If this is difficult, one fulfills his obligation by drinking the majority of a Revi’it for each cup.<Ref> * The Gemara (Pesachim 108b) states that each of the 4 cups at the [[seder]] must contain a Revi’it of wine. Additionally, Rabbi Yitzchak (Pesachim 109a) says that a certain measuring cup in Tzipori held the volume of a Log and they would use it to measure the Revi’it for [[Pesach]]. Rashbam (109a s.v. U’vah) explains that each of the 4 cups had to hold a Revi’it of a Log and altogether that would equal a Log, the exact volume of the cup in Tzipori. Rambam (Chametz UMatzah 7:7), Tur, and S”A 472:9 codify this as halacha. | ||
* On the statement of Rav Nachman (Pesachim 108b) that one fulfills his obligation by drinking a majority of the cup, Tosfot (s.v. Ruba) comments that preferably, one should drink an entire Revi’it. The Bach (472 s.v. Mah SheKatav VeEin) writes that it is obvious that one should only rely on the concept of majority being considering like the entirety (Rubo K’kulo) after the fact, however, l’chatchila one should drink an entire Revi’it.</ref> | * On the statement of Rav Nachman (Pesachim 108b) that one fulfills his obligation by drinking a majority of the cup, Tosfot (s.v. Ruba) comments that preferably, one should drink an entire Revi’it. The Bach (472 s.v. Mah SheKatav VeEin) writes that it is obvious that one should only rely on the concept of majority being considering like the entirety (Rubo K’kulo) after the fact, however, l’chatchila one should drink an entire Revi’it.</ref> | ||
# The precise measurement of a [[Revi'it]] is a matter of dispute; several opinions are outlined below:<ref>Background: The Gemara (Pesachim 109a) explains that a Revi’it is the volume of 2x2x2.7 fingerbreadths. Additionally, the Rashbam (109b s.v. DeHaynu) writes that the Revi’it is equal to 1.5 times the volume of an egg. Mishna Brurah 271:68 clarifies that the [[Revi'it]] is 1.5 eggs with its shell. Because of the apparent discrepancy between these two [[measurements]], the Tzlach (Pesachim 116b) concluded that the egg of the days of the Gemara was twice the size of the modern-day egg. The Mishna Brurah 486:1 concludes that for the 4 cups of wine at [[the Seder]], which are only d’rabanan, one need not follow the Tzlach’s strict view. </ref> | # The precise measurement of a [[Revi'it]] is a matter of dispute; several opinions are outlined below:<ref>Background: The Gemara (Pesachim 109a) explains that a Revi’it is the volume of 2x2x2.7 fingerbreadths. Additionally, the Rashbam (109b s.v. DeHaynu) writes that the Revi’it is equal to 1.5 times the volume of an egg. Mishna Brurah 271:68 clarifies that the [[Revi'it]] is 1.5 eggs with its shell. Because of the apparent discrepancy between these two [[measurements]], the Tzlach (Pesachim 116b) concluded that the egg of the days of the Gemara was twice the size of the modern-day egg. The Mishna Brurah 486:1 concludes that for the 4 cups of wine at [[the Seder]], which are only d’rabanan, one need not follow the Tzlach’s strict view. </ref> | ||
## Rabbi Mordechai Willig holds that a Revi’it is 2.5 fl oz (75cc). <ref> Rabbi Mordechai Willig (“The [[Shiurim]] of Seder Night” min 1-10, and [[Pesach]] To-Go 5771 p. 60) holds that strictly speaking the size of an egg with its shell is 50 cc, and the [[Revi'it]] is 1.5 eggs with its shell, resulting in a [[Revi'it]] of 2.54 fl oz. </ref> | ## Rabbi Mordechai Willig holds that a Revi’it is 2.5 fl oz (75cc). <ref> Rabbi Mordechai Willig (“The [[Shiurim]] of [[Seder]] Night” min 1-10, and [[Pesach]] To-Go 5771 p. 60) holds that strictly speaking the size of an egg with its shell is 50 cc, and the [[Revi'it]] is 1.5 eggs with its shell, resulting in a [[Revi'it]] of 2.54 fl oz. </ref> | ||
## Rav Ovadia Yosef writes that a Revi’it is 2.7 fl oz (81cc). <ref>Rav Ovadia Yosef (Chazon Ovadia p. 16) writes that the [[Revi'it]] is 81cc. This is based on the [[measurements]] of Rav Chaim Noeh (Shiurei Tzion p. 69) with slight adjustments. </ref> | ## Rav Ovadia Yosef writes that a Revi’it is 2.7 fl oz (81cc). <ref>Rav Ovadia Yosef (Chazon Ovadia p. 16) writes that the [[Revi'it]] is 81cc. This is based on the [[measurements]] of Rav Chaim Noeh (Shiurei Tzion p. 69) with slight adjustments. </ref> | ||
## Rabbi Avraham Blumenkrantz writes that a Revi’it is 2.9 fl oz (86cc). <ref>Rabbi Avraham Blumenkrantz (The Laws of [[Pesach]] 5771 pg 111) writes that since the four cups are Derabbanan one may use a cup that holds 2.9 oz. </ref> | ## Rabbi Avraham Blumenkrantz writes that a Revi’it is 2.9 fl oz (86cc). <ref>Rabbi Avraham Blumenkrantz (The Laws of [[Pesach]] 5771 pg 111) writes that since the four cups are Derabbanan one may use a cup that holds 2.9 oz. </ref> | ||
## Rabbi Shimon Eider writes that according to his [[measurements]], the Revi’it is 3.0 fl oz (89cc). <ref>Halachos of [[Pesach]] (Rabbi Shimon Eider, Chapter 20, Sec D 5, pg 228-230) writes that since the four cups are Derabbanan one may have the smaller measurement which is measuring by eggs and not by thumbs and according to his calculation a [[Reviyit]] should be 3 oz and if one is unable to have a [[Reviyit]] one fulfills one's obligation with a majority of a [[Reviyit]]. See also Weekly Halacha (by Rabbi Neustadt on [http://www.torah.org/advanced/weekly-halacha/5760/tazria.html torah.org]) who writes that one may rely on the view of Rav Chaim Noeh who holds that 3 oz is sufficient being that the cups of wine are Derabbanan. </ref> | ## Rabbi Shimon Eider writes that according to his [[measurements]], the Revi’it is 3.0 fl oz (89cc). <ref>Halachos of [[Pesach]] (Rabbi Shimon Eider, Chapter 20, Sec D 5, pg 228-230) writes that since the four cups are Derabbanan one may have the smaller measurement which is measuring by eggs and not by thumbs and according to his calculation a [[Reviyit]] should be 3 oz and if one is unable to have a [[Reviyit]] one fulfills one's obligation with a majority of a [[Reviyit]]. See also Weekly Halacha (by Rabbi Neustadt on [http://www.torah.org/advanced/weekly-halacha/5760/tazria.html torah.org]) who writes that one may rely on the view of Rav Chaim Noeh who holds that 3 oz is sufficient being that the cups of wine are Derabbanan. </ref> | ||
## Rabbi Dovid Feinstein (Kol Dodi Haggadah, 5730, p. 4) writes that based on measuring large eggs a Revi’it is 3.3 fl oz (98cc). <ref>In the 5745 edition, however, he says that the Revi’it is fl 2.9 oz. See also Rabbi Yisroel Bodner (Halachos of K’zayis p. 24 n. 24) who writes that he spoke to Rav Dovid Feinstein about how he arrived at his [[measurements]] and was told that his father, Rav Moshe Feinstein, didn't measure it himself but rather a student measured 'large' eggs and came up with 2.2 fl oz per egg. Rav Dovid added, if he, Rav Bodner, arrived at a smaller measure with his own [[measurements]] he should follow that. Rav Bodner writes that according to his [[measurements]] the average egg was 55cc (1.92 fl oz). Nonetheless, in terms of [[Bracha Achrona]] Rav Bodner (p. 26) follows the [[measurements]] of Rav Chaim Noeh who measured the average egg to be 57cc. </ref> | ## Rabbi Dovid Feinstein (Kol Dodi Haggadah, 5730, p. 4) writes that based on measuring large eggs, which should be used for the four cups, a Revi’it is 3.3 fl oz (98cc). <ref>In the 5745 edition, however, he says that the Revi’it is fl 2.9 oz. See also Rabbi Yisroel Bodner (Halachos of K’zayis p. 24 n. 24) who writes that he spoke to Rav Dovid Feinstein about how he arrived at his [[measurements]] and was told that his father, Rav Moshe Feinstein, didn't measure it himself but rather a student measured 'large' eggs and came up with 2.2 fl oz per egg. Rav Dovid added, if he, Rav Bodner, arrived at a smaller measure with his own [[measurements]] he should follow that. Rav Bodner writes that according to his [[measurements]] the average egg was 55cc (1.92 fl oz). Nonetheless, in terms of [[Bracha Achrona]] Rav Bodner (p. 26) follows the [[measurements]] of Rav Chaim Noeh who measured the average egg to be 57cc. </ref> | ||
## Rav Yisrael Belsky recommended having a Revi’it of 4.3 fl oz (127cc). <ref>Rav Yisrael Belsky on [http://www.ou.org/torah/article/oukosher_pre-pesach_webcast_5771 OU Pre-Pesach Webcast 5771] between minutes 37 and 38</ref> | ## Rav Yisrael Belsky recommended having a Revi’it of 4.3 fl oz (127cc). <ref>Rav Yisrael Belsky on [http://www.ou.org/torah/article/oukosher_pre-pesach_webcast_5771 OU Pre-Pesach Webcast 5771] between minutes 37 and 38</ref> | ||
## Rav Chaim Kanievsky writes that according to the rulings of the Chazon Ish, a Revi’it is 5.1 fl oz (150cc). <ref>Shiurin Shel Torah p. 65. See also Halachos of [[Pesach]] (pg 229) who writes that the [[Kiddish]] cup of Rav Yisrael Salanter was 4.1 oz at it's full capacity and the cup of the Chafetz Chaim was 5 oz. </ref> | ## Rav Chaim Kanievsky writes that according to the rulings of the Chazon Ish, a Revi’it is 5.1 fl oz (150cc). <ref>Shiurin Shel Torah p. 65. See also Halachos of [[Pesach]] (pg 229) who writes that the [[Kiddish]] cup of Rav Yisrael Salanter was 4.1 oz at it's full capacity and the cup of the Chafetz Chaim was 5 oz. </ref> | ||
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# There’s a mitzvah (which according to some is Deoritta) in eating more [[Matzah]] than the required amount. <Ref>Maharal in Gevurot Hashem chapter 48, Bach 472, Mikrei Kodesh siman 48, Sh”t Har Tzvi 2, and Natai Gavriel (vol 2, 90:26) hold that there’s a mitzvah of eating [[Matzah]] as much as one eats even beyond the actual requirement. See also the Emek Shelah (Yitro 53:4). Hagadat Be’er Miryam (pg 53) writes that another reason to eat more [[Matzah]] is because there’s a big confusion in the amount necessary and [[Matzah]] is a mitzvah Deoritta. Rav Mordechai Willig ([[Pesach]] To-Go, Nisan 5771, p. 60) quotes Rav Soloveitchik who derived this insight from the Rambam Chametz UMatzah 6:1.</ref> | # There’s a mitzvah (which according to some is Deoritta) in eating more [[Matzah]] than the required amount. <Ref>Maharal in Gevurot Hashem chapter 48, Bach 472, Mikrei Kodesh siman 48, Sh”t Har Tzvi 2, and Natai Gavriel (vol 2, 90:26) hold that there’s a mitzvah of eating [[Matzah]] as much as one eats even beyond the actual requirement. See also the Emek Shelah (Yitro 53:4). Hagadat Be’er Miryam (pg 53) writes that another reason to eat more [[Matzah]] is because there’s a big confusion in the amount necessary and [[Matzah]] is a mitzvah Deoritta. Rav Mordechai Willig ([[Pesach]] To-Go, Nisan 5771, p. 60) quotes Rav Soloveitchik who derived this insight from the Rambam Chametz UMatzah 6:1.</ref> | ||
===How much Matzah should one eat at the Seder?=== | ===How much Matzah should one eat at the Seder?=== | ||
# There's three times one should eat [[Matzah]] during the seder: [[Motzei Matzah]], [[Korech]], and [[Tzafun]] ([[Afikomen]]). To fulfill all of one’s obligations, one should eat 2 kezaytim for Motzi-[[Matza]], 1 [[Kezayit]] for [[Korech]], and 2 more kezaytim for [[Afikomen]]. All agree that having 2 kezaytim for [[Afikomen]] is merely preferable; one fulfills his obligation with 1 [[kezayit]]. <ref> | # There's three times one should eat [[Matzah]] during the [[seder]]: [[Motzei Matzah]], [[Korech]], and [[Tzafun]] ([[Afikomen]]). To fulfill all of one’s obligations, one should eat 2 kezaytim for Motzi-[[Matza]], 1 [[Kezayit]] for [[Korech]], and 2 more kezaytim for [[Afikomen]]. All agree that having 2 kezaytim for [[Afikomen]] is merely preferable; one fulfills his obligation with 1 [[kezayit]]. <ref> | ||
* It is clear from the Gemara ([[Brachot]] 37b, Pesachim 108a and 119b) that one fulfills his obligation of eating [[matza]] with one [[kezayit]]. Rambam Chametz UMatzah 6:1 and Ritva Pesachim 35a write this explicitly. Nonetheless, the Rosh Pesachim 10:30 writes that one should eat a [[Kezayit]] of the whole [[matza]] and a [[Kezayit]] of the broken one. This Rosh is codified by the Tur and S”A 475:1. | * It is clear from the Gemara ([[Brachot]] 37b, Pesachim 108a and 119b) that one fulfills his obligation of eating [[matza]] with one [[kezayit]]. Rambam Chametz UMatzah 6:1 and Ritva Pesachim 35a write this explicitly. Nonetheless, the Rosh Pesachim 10:30 writes that one should eat a [[Kezayit]] of the whole [[matza]] and a [[Kezayit]] of the broken one. This Rosh is codified by the Tur and S”A 475:1. | ||
* Many achronim wonder where the Rosh found a source for requiring two kezaytim. Bach 475:3 suggests that the Rosh was strict for the opinion that one needs to eat a [[Kezayit]] each time one makes HaMotzi (a minority opinion rejected in S”A 210:1). The Prisha 475:1 explains that the Rosh meant since there is a dispute in the Rishonim whether the Al Achilat [[Matza]] should be made on the broken one (Rashi Pesachim 116a) or the whole [[matza]] (Hahagot Maimon (Seder #7)), one should have a [[Kezayit]] from both. This sentiment is echoed by the Taz 475:2 and Mishna Brurah 475:9. | * Many achronim wonder where the Rosh found a source for requiring two kezaytim. Bach 475:3 suggests that the Rosh was strict for the opinion that one needs to eat a [[Kezayit]] each time one makes HaMotzi (a minority opinion rejected in S”A 210:1). The Prisha 475:1 explains that the Rosh meant since there is a dispute in the Rishonim whether the Al Achilat [[Matza]] should be made on the broken one (Rashi Pesachim 116a) or the whole [[matza]] (Hahagot Maimon ([[Seder]] #7)), one should have a [[Kezayit]] from both. This sentiment is echoed by the Taz 475:2 and Mishna Brurah 475:9. | ||
* Despite the questions of the achronim, the Rosh’s view is accepted by most acharonim, including Magen Avraham 475:4, S”A HaRav (Piskei HaSeder), Kitzur S”A 199:5, Aruch HaShulchan 475:5, and Chazon Ovadyah (p. 65). See, however, Orchot Rabbenu (vol 2, p. 70) who writes that Chazon Ish personally ate only one [[Kezayit]] because he held the halacha doesn’t follow the Rosh. | * Despite the questions of the achronim, the Rosh’s view is accepted by most acharonim, including Magen Avraham 475:4, S”A HaRav (Piskei HaSeder), Kitzur S”A 199:5, Aruch HaShulchan 475:5, and Chazon Ovadyah (p. 65). See, however, Orchot Rabbenu (vol 2, p. 70) who writes that Chazon Ish personally ate only one [[Kezayit]] because he held the halacha doesn’t follow the Rosh. | ||
* For [[Korech]], Mishna Brurah 475:16 writes that a [[Kezayit]] of [[matza]] is needed. Kitzur S”A 199:7, Nitei Gavriel 59:1, and Chazon Ovadyah (p. 100) agree. | * For [[Korech]], Mishna Brurah 475:16 writes that a [[Kezayit]] of [[matza]] is needed. Kitzur S”A 199:7, Nitei Gavriel 59:1, and Chazon Ovadyah (p. 100) agree. | ||
* Regarding [[Afikomen]], S”A 477:1 rules that one should eat one [[Kezayit]] of [[matza]]. Darkei Moshe 477:2 quotes the Maharil that it is preferable to have 2 kezaytim. Magen Avraham 477:1 explains that one is in commemoration of the Korban [[Pesach]] and one for the [[matza]] eaten with it. Many achronim quote the Maharil including the Taz 477:1, Kitzur S”A 119:8, Mishna Brurah 477:1, Kaf HaChaim 477:1, and Chazon Ovadyah (p. 106).</ref> | * Regarding [[Afikomen]], S”A 477:1 rules that one should eat one [[Kezayit]] of [[matza]]. Darkei Moshe 477:2 quotes the Maharil that it is preferable to have 2 kezaytim. Magen Avraham 477:1 explains that one is in commemoration of the Korban [[Pesach]] and one for the [[matza]] eaten with it. Many achronim quote the Maharil including the Taz 477:1, Kitzur S”A 119:8, Mishna Brurah 477:1, Kaf HaChaim 477:1, and Chazon Ovadyah (p. 106).</ref> | ||
# For Motzi-[[Matza]], many authorities write that if the matzot of the head of the house don’t suffice for 2 kezaytim for each person, one fulfills his mitzvah by eating a bit from the whole [[matza]] and 1 other [[Kezayit]] (and not 2).<ref> Rav Shlomo Zalman in Halichot Shlomo 9:40 rules that if the head of the house’s three matzot do not suffice for the [[Kezayit]] for each person, each person should just have a piece from the whole [[matza]] and eat a single [[Kezayit]] of [[matza]] from other shemura [[matza]]. He explains that according to the Prisha, if one isn’t eating from the head of house’s matzot, there’s no safek upon which [[matza]] one makes Al Achilat [[Matza]], so there is no need to eat an extra [[kezayit]]. Chazon Ovadyah (p. 65), Haggadah Moadim UZmanim (p. 97), and Seder HaAruch (p 455) quoting Rav Elyashiv agree. Rav Dovid Feinstein in Haggadah Kol Dodi (5745 edition, 14:3) says the same idea. See, however, also Sh"t Igrot Moshe OC 5:16 who thinks that one should avoid this situation by everyone having their three matzot. On that last point, see the full discussion [[Setting_the_Table#Seder_Plate_.28Kaarah.29|here]].</ref> | # For Motzi-[[Matza]], many authorities write that if the matzot of the head of the house don’t suffice for 2 kezaytim for each person, one fulfills his mitzvah by eating a bit from the whole [[matza]] and 1 other [[Kezayit]] (and not 2).<ref> Rav Shlomo Zalman in Halichot Shlomo 9:40 rules that if the head of the house’s three matzot do not suffice for the [[Kezayit]] for each person, each person should just have a piece from the whole [[matza]] and eat a single [[Kezayit]] of [[matza]] from other shemura [[matza]]. He explains that according to the Prisha, if one isn’t eating from the head of house’s matzot, there’s no safek upon which [[matza]] one makes Al Achilat [[Matza]], so there is no need to eat an extra [[kezayit]]. Chazon Ovadyah (p. 65), Haggadah Moadim UZmanim (p. 97), and [[Seder]] HaAruch (p 455) quoting Rav Elyashiv agree. Rav Dovid Feinstein in Haggadah Kol Dodi (5745 edition, 14:3) says the same idea. See, however, also Sh"t Igrot Moshe OC 5:16 who thinks that one should avoid this situation by everyone having their three matzot. On that last point, see the full discussion [[Setting_the_Table#Seder_Plate_.28Kaarah.29|here]].</ref> | ||
# Practically, how large in a [[Kezayit]] in terms of the amount of [[Matzah]] one should eat? | # Practically, how large in a [[Kezayit]] in terms of the amount of [[Matzah]] one should eat? | ||
## According to Ashkenazim, for [[Motzei Matzah]], some say that one should eat 4/5 of a machine [[matzah]], some say 2/3 of a [[matzah]], and others say 1 [[matzah]]. For [[Korech]], some say that one should eat 2/5 of a [[matzah]], some say less than 1/2 of a [[matzah]], and others say 2/3 of a [[matzah]]. For [[Afikomen]], some say that one should eat 4/5, some say more than 1/2, and others 1 [[matzah]].<ref> | ## According to Ashkenazim, for [[Motzei Matzah]], some say that one should eat 4/5 of a machine [[matzah]], some say 2/3 of a [[matzah]], and others say 1 [[matzah]]. For [[Korech]], some say that one should eat 2/5 of a [[matzah]], some say less than 1/2 of a [[matzah]], and others say 2/3 of a [[matzah]]. For [[Afikomen]], some say that one should eat 4/5, some say more than 1/2, and others 1 [[matzah]].<ref> | ||
