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Prohibition to Lie: Difference between revisions
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# The Gemorah<ref>Mesechtas Bava Metziah 23b, Shulchan Aruch C.M. 262:21, Magen Avraham 156:2, Pri Megadim Eishel Avraham 156, Mishna Brurah 156:4, see Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 41-59 in great depth. Some say this is only permitted once a year (Refer to Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 59). The Divrei Torah 2:67 says this Gemorah is talking about three areas where joking is done, starting off learning with a joke, [[Purim]], and Succos. </ref> says for three things one is permitted to lie.<ref>Refer to Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 48 if doing so is optional or a mitzvah. Refer to Ben Yehoyada Mesechtas Bava Metziah 23b pages 70-70b who says these three things are said in a way which can be interrupted as the truth as well. The Machtzis Ha’shekel 156 says some say it is a mitzvah while others say one is allowed to lie in the above situations. </ref> | # The Gemorah<ref>Mesechtas Bava Metziah 23b, Shulchan Aruch C.M. 262:21, Magen Avraham 156:2, Pri Megadim Eishel Avraham 156, Mishna Brurah 156:4, see Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 41-59 in great depth. Some say this is only permitted once a year (Refer to Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 59). The Divrei Torah 2:67 says this Gemorah is talking about three areas where joking is done, starting off learning with a joke, [[Purim]], and Succos. </ref> says for three things one is permitted to lie.<ref>Refer to Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 48 if doing so is optional or a mitzvah. Refer to Ben Yehoyada Mesechtas Bava Metziah 23b pages 70-70b who says these three things are said in a way which can be interrupted as the truth as well. The Machtzis Ha’shekel 156 says some say it is a mitzvah while others say one is allowed to lie in the above situations. </ref> | ||
## [[Lying]] regarding a mesechta | ## [[Lying]] regarding a mesechta | ||
### If a person is fasting an individual fast for which he volunteered to fast, in order to preserve his humility it is permitted to lie in order to not to say one is fasting. However, it is also permitted to tell the truth as long as one's intent | ### If a person is fasting an individual fast for which he volunteered to fast, in order to preserve his humility it is permitted to lie in order to not to say one is fasting. However, it is also permitted to tell the truth as long as one's intent isn't to to publicize one's good deed. <ref>Magen Avraham 565:7 based on Gemara Ketubot 75b</ref> | ||
## [[Lying]] regarding hilchos tznius. | ## [[Lying]] regarding hilchos tznius. | ||
## [[Lying]] regarding a guest. There are different interpretations of what this means. Some say if a person asks you if you know a certain mesechtas one is allowed to say no since he is displaying humility.<ref>Rashi Bava Metziah 23b s.v. b’mesechtas. Refer to Niv Sefasayim 2, pages 35-37. </ref> If one asks you if you used the bed, you can answer no because of tznius.<ref>Rashi 23b “b’purya.” Refer to Tosfas “b’purya” Rambam Hilchos Gezeilah V’aveidah 14:13 and Rashba who have a different explanation of this. Refer to Igros Moshe C.M. 2:61:3. See Ben Yehoyada on Mesechtas Bava Metziah 23b for has a novel approach to what this question means. </ref> One may also avoid the truth for other middos as well.<ref>Niv Sefasayim page 58. </ref> Others say this means if one asks you on [[Purim]] if you know the difference between cursed Haman and boruch Mordechai you can say no.<ref>Maharsaha Chiddushei Agados Mesechtas Bava Metziah 23b “b’purya.” Refer to Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 52:26. See Moadim V’zemanim 6:109 who explains this opinion. </ref> One who is asked if his host treated him with respect can say no, in order that the host does not receive many unwanted guests.<ref>Rashi Mesechtas Bava Metziah 24a “b’ushpiza,” Tosfas Mesechtas Bava Metziah “b’ushpiza” Nemukei Yosef. Refer to Rambam Hilchos Gezeilah V’aveidah 14:13, Orchos Tzadikim Shar HaSheker. Shita M’keubetzes, Mieri Bav Metziah 23b. Some say this is all permitted because they are included in [[lying]] for peace (Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 43). The custom is always to say the food was good at a guest even if it was not, see Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 56:36. </ref> Others say when they ask someone a question on an inyun he can say he is learning a different inyun in order that they should not ask on the first inyun.<ref>Refer to Toras Chaim Mesechtas Bava Metziah 23b. </ref> | ## [[Lying]] regarding a guest. There are different interpretations of what this means. Some say if a person asks you if you know a certain mesechtas one is allowed to say no since he is displaying humility.<ref>Rashi Bava Metziah 23b s.v. b’mesechtas. Refer to Niv Sefasayim 2, pages 35-37. </ref> If one asks you if you used the bed, you can answer no because of tznius.<ref>Rashi 23b “b’purya.” Refer to Tosfas “b’purya” Rambam Hilchos Gezeilah V’aveidah 14:13 and Rashba who have a different explanation of this. Refer to Igros Moshe C.M. 2:61:3. See Ben Yehoyada on Mesechtas Bava Metziah 23b for has a novel approach to what this question means. </ref> One may also avoid the truth for other middos as well.<ref>Niv Sefasayim page 58. </ref> Others say this means if one asks you on [[Purim]] if you know the difference between cursed Haman and boruch Mordechai you can say no.<ref>Maharsaha Chiddushei Agados Mesechtas Bava Metziah 23b “b’purya.” Refer to Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 52:26. See Moadim V’zemanim 6:109 who explains this opinion. </ref> One who is asked if his host treated him with respect can say no, in order that the host does not receive many unwanted guests.<ref>Rashi Mesechtas Bava Metziah 24a “b’ushpiza,” Tosfas Mesechtas Bava Metziah “b’ushpiza” Nemukei Yosef. Refer to Rambam Hilchos Gezeilah V’aveidah 14:13, Orchos Tzadikim Shar HaSheker. Shita M’keubetzes, Mieri Bav Metziah 23b. Some say this is all permitted because they are included in [[lying]] for peace (Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 43). The custom is always to say the food was good at a guest even if it was not, see Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 56:36. </ref> Others say when they ask someone a question on an inyun he can say he is learning a different inyun in order that they should not ask on the first inyun.<ref>Refer to Toras Chaim Mesechtas Bava Metziah 23b. </ref> | ||
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# One who is shipping fragile objects such as [[matzah]] can write the word "glass" on the box in order that it should be dealt with properly. <ref>Opinions of Harav Elyashiv Shlita, Harav Fisher zt”l and Harav Chaim Kanievesky Shlita quoted in Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 91-92. Mishpatei Hashalom 2: page 41 agrees but says it would be preferable to simply write fragile if that would suffice. Refer to Teshuvos V’hanhugos 2:523 how this applies to shipping a sefer Torah. </ref> | # One who is shipping fragile objects such as [[matzah]] can write the word "glass" on the box in order that it should be dealt with properly. <ref>Opinions of Harav Elyashiv Shlita, Harav Fisher zt”l and Harav Chaim Kanievesky Shlita quoted in Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 91-92. Mishpatei Hashalom 2: page 41 agrees but says it would be preferable to simply write fragile if that would suffice. Refer to Teshuvos V’hanhugos 2:523 how this applies to shipping a sefer Torah. </ref> | ||
===For peace=== | ===For peace=== | ||
# One is allowed to lie for the sake of peace.<ref>Mesechtas Yevamos 65b, Bava Metziah 87a, Shulchan Aruch C.M. 262:21, Rambam Hilchos Gezeilah V’aveida 14:13, Semak 227, Teshuvos Rama 11, Orchos Tzadikim Shar HaSheker, Rabbeinu Yonah Sharei | # One is allowed to lie for the sake of peace.<ref>Mesechtas Yevamos 65b, Bava Metziah 87a, Shulchan Aruch C.M. 262:21, Rambam Hilchos Gezeilah V’aveida 14:13, Semak 227, Teshuvos Rama 11, Orchos Tzadikim Shar HaSheker, Rabbeinu Yonah Sharei Teshuva 3:181, Lev Chaim 1:5, Mishna Brurah 156:4, Chofetz Chaim chelek 2:1:8, Niv Sefasayim 2:pages 23-24, Derech Sicha 1:page 307. Some say it is only permitted if one is not hurting the other party by [[lying]] (Rabbeinu Yonah in Sharei Teshuva 3:181). Others say it is a mitzvah to lie for peace (Refer to Masechet Yevamos 65b, Ran Masechet Bava Metziah 23b, Niv Sefasayim 2:page 23, Modanei [[Yom Tov]] 2:pages 465-466). Some say [[lying]] for peace is only permitted if one will not make a different person lose out and he does not do it because he loves to lie (Refer to Niv Sefasayim pages 35-36). </ref> A proof to this is the fact that Hashem told Avraham a different story than actually took place between Hashem and Sarah.<ref>Refer to Bereishis 18:13. 21:7, see Bereishis 50:16, Rashi “avicha,” Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 250-251 who explains the last source. </ref> Based on this one is allowed to lie to bring peace between husband and wife. <ref>Reishis Chuchma Shar Hakedusha 12:61.</ref> | ||
# There is a discussion in the seforim if one is allowed to say a real lie for the sake of peace, or only to say something which can be interpreted as the truth as well.<ref>Refer to Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 92-93 who brings the opinions. See Chofetz Chaim chelek 2:1:8, Niv Sefasayim page 33. </ref> | # There is a discussion in the seforim if one is allowed to say a real lie for the sake of peace, or only to say something which can be interpreted as the truth as well.<ref>Refer to Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 92-93 who brings the opinions. See Chofetz Chaim chelek 2:1:8, Niv Sefasayim page 33. </ref> | ||
# There are poskim that are of the opinion that [[lying]] is only permitted for the sake of peace on something which already happened, but for an occurrence which did not yet happen one is not permitted to lie even if it is for peace.<ref>Refer to Sefer Chassidim 426, Magen Avrham O.C. 156:1, Shulchan Aruch Harav 2, Elya Rabbah 156:2, Da’as Torah 156, Mishna Brurah 156:4, Lev Chaim 1:5, see Rav Pealim C.M. 3:1. Many seem to question this premise (Refer to Emes Koneh page 76 in depth). </ref> However, the custom is to be lenient.<ref>Refer to Lev Chaim 1:5, Emes Koneh pg. 76, Niv Sefasayim 2:pages 17-22 in great depth. Refer to Chasam Sofer Lekutim 6:59, Cheshav Ha’efod 1:59. </ref> | # There are poskim that are of the opinion that [[lying]] is only permitted for the sake of peace on something which already happened, but for an occurrence which did not yet happen one is not permitted to lie even if it is for peace.<ref>Refer to Sefer Chassidim 426, Magen Avrham O.C. 156:1, Shulchan Aruch Harav 2, Elya Rabbah 156:2, Da’as Torah 156, Mishna Brurah 156:4, Lev Chaim 1:5, see Rav Pealim C.M. 3:1. Many seem to question this premise (Refer to Emes Koneh page 76 in depth). </ref> However, the custom is to be lenient.<ref>Refer to Lev Chaim 1:5, Emes Koneh pg. 76, Niv Sefasayim 2:pages 17-22 in great depth. Refer to Chasam Sofer Lekutim 6:59, Cheshav Ha’efod 1:59. </ref> | ||
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==Avoiding Embarrassment== | ==Avoiding Embarrassment== | ||
# One is permitted to lie in order for one's friend to avoid being embarrassed.<ref>Rambam Hilchos Gezeilah V’aveidah 14:13, Lev Chaim 1:5, Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 97-99. Refer to Shevet Ha’Levi 5:2. Refer to Masechet Berochos 43b, Rashi “v’lo hiy,” Masechet Eruvin 53b, Sanhedrin 11a, Menochos 67b, Rashi Mesechet Avodah Zarah 58a “dumi,” Tosfos Avodah Zarah 58a “ikloah,” Da’as Torah 156. </ref> | # One is permitted to lie in order for one's friend to avoid being embarrassed.<ref>Rambam Hilchos Gezeilah V’aveidah 14:13, Lev Chaim 1:5, Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 97-99. Refer to Shevet Ha’Levi 5:2. Refer to Masechet Berochos 43b, Rashi “v’lo hiy,” Masechet Eruvin 53b, Sanhedrin 11a, Menochos 67b, Rashi Mesechet Avodah Zarah 58a “dumi,” Tosfos Avodah Zarah 58a “ikloah,” Da’as Torah 156. </ref> | ||
# | # Similarly, it is sometimes permitted to lie to avoid personal embarrassment.<ref>The Gemara has numerous stories in which there is some white lie to protect being embarrassed. | ||
# The Gemara Yevamot 77a states that if a rabbi says a halachic testimony before an occurrence happened it is accepted but if he says it afterwards then it isn't accepted. Tosfot s.v. im explains that we don't accept the testimony if he is personally involved and stands to benefit. | |||
# The Gemara Brachot 43b relates a story in which Rav Papa fabricated a testimony from Rava to substantiate his actions so that he wouldn't be embarrassed with what he did incorrectly (Rashi s.v. velo). Magen Giborim 216:5 offers an nuanced interpretation in which Rav Papa didn't make up any testimony. [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/897195/rabbi-hershel-schachter/berachos-86-43b-44b-lying-to-cover-up-mistakes-talking-to-women-in-public-late-to-shul-tuna-fish-kashrus-al-haetz-al-ha-adamah-making-up-brachos/ Rav Schachter (Brachot Shiur 86 min 4)] said that it is scandalous to learn the gemara like Rashi that a rabbi can sometimes lie to save embarrassment and that's why some rishonim disagree. On that Gemara Brachot the Gilyon Hashas points out a Gemara Yerushalmi Nazir 7:1 33b which relates a story in which a student Gavila made up a testimony of what his teacher Rav Acha said and when it was found out that he mistakenly extrapolated and misquoted his teacher, Rav Acha flogged him. That certainly indicates that it is a serious offense to misquote someone. So why was Rav Papa permitted to do what he did? | |||
# Also, the Gemara Chullin 111b has a story in which Shmuel seems to have fabricated a story about Rav to convince Rabbi Elazar of his opinion and later Rav denies it. The Maharalbach (Chief Rabbi of Yerushalayim from 1525 until 1545) responsa 121 was very troubled by this gemara and that explained that Shmuel didn't actually make up a story and he was just misunderstood or that he did but he just meant that he was sure that the story could have happened so he said it as though it happened. See Ketav Sofer YD 77 was similarly bothered. | |||
# Also, the Gemara Avoda Zara 58a records a story in which Rava altered what he actually said originally to saved being embarrassed by his original mistaken ruling. | |||
## (Also, Eruvin 51a tells a story in which Rav Yosef made up a statement of Rabbi Yosi to support his point, however, there he knew he was right and no one argued with him, and he just said quoted someone great so that Rabba would listen to him. | |||
## The same is true of Gemara Shabbat 115a in which Rabba made up a statement of Rabbi Yochanan so that people would listen to him. | |||
## See Nazir 59b in which Rabbi Yehoshua asked a question to Ben Zoma based on unsubstantiated assumptions in order to gain clarity of the subject. The gemara explains that he did so to teach everyone that a person shouldn't be embarrassed to ask questions.) | |||
* The [http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=42573&st=&pgnum=552 Maharalbach (Kuntres Hasemicha 279a)] infers from the Gemara's that a rabbi can sometimes lie to avoid being embarrassed and denigrating the respect of Torah. He says that specifically when a person did an action and is publicly embarrassed is there a concern of him lying but if he just said something privately we're not concerned. | |||
# Gemara Zevachim 94a records a story in which Rava made a public ruling and after realizing his mistake made another public announcement and declared publicly what I previously stated was incorrect. | |||
# The Gemara Zevachim 101a explains that in the argument between Aharon and Moshe, Moshe's conclusion (Vayikra 10:20) wasn't merely to say that Aharon was right but that he was very humble and admitted that he hear from Hashem what Aharon said and he forgot. | |||
</ref> If a bochur who went on a date is asked where were you last night he does not have to say the truth if he is embarrassed.<ref>Opinion of Harav Elyashiv Shlita quoted in Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 102. </ref> You can also say I had to take care of something. | |||
# If a woman miscarried and now gave birth to a boy one does not have to say the truth if he is asked will there be a [[pidyon haben]]? However, he can say she is a bas Kohen, or Levi in which case there is no [[pidyon haben]]. <ref>Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 102. </ref> | # If a woman miscarried and now gave birth to a boy one does not have to say the truth if he is asked will there be a [[pidyon haben]]? However, he can say she is a bas Kohen, or Levi in which case there is no [[pidyon haben]]. <ref>Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 102. </ref> | ||
# One who is doing kiruv may say he did the sin as well in order to lessen the embarrassment of his students.<ref>Emes Koneh page 39:footnote 9. </ref> | # One who is doing kiruv may say he did the sin as well in order to lessen the embarrassment of his students.<ref>Emes Koneh page 39:footnote 9. </ref> | ||
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==Kallah == | ==Kallah == | ||
# There is a dispute if one is supposed to say to the chosson the kallah looks nice even if she does not.<ref>Masechet Kesubos 17a, Semak 227, Rabbeinu Yona Sharei | # There is a dispute if one is supposed to say to the chosson the kallah looks nice even if she does not.<ref>Masechet Kesubos 17a, Semak 227, Rabbeinu Yona Sharei Teshuva 3:181, Orchos Tzadikim Shar HaSheker, see Titen Emes L’Yaakov pages 175-176 who explains the dispute see also page 100-101. Also see Niv Sefasayim 2:pages 4-9 in great depth, and Torah She’bal Pe 21:pages 92-94. Refer to Ben Yehoyada in Mesechtas Kesubos 16:page 67 and Yismach Lev 1:page 170. </ref> L'maseh, one is permitted to say a kallah looks beautiful even if she does not. The reason is in order that her chosson should love her.<ref>Mesechtas Kesubos 17a. See Tosfas “kallah,” Rashba, Shita Mekubetzes, Shulchan Aruch E.H. 65:1, Chasam Sofer Mesechet Kesubos 17a </ref> Some say this is based on the heter to lie because of peace.<ref>Ritvah Masechet Kesubos 17a Refer to Maharsha Mesechtas Kesubos 16b “ketzad.” </ref> Others say because even if one says she is beautiful when she is not it can be going on her actions.<ref>Bais Shbmuel E.H. 65:2, Prisha 1, Aruch Ha’shulchan 65:1. See Shevet Ha’Levi 5:2. </ref> The same is true for one whose child is not pretty; he may say he is beautiful.<ref>Emes Koneh page 37:footnote 5, Titen Emes L’Yaakov page 224 quoting the opinion of Harav Shlomo Zalman Aurbach zt”l. </ref> | ||
==A Bought Item== | ==A Bought Item== | ||
