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Prohibition to Lie: Difference between revisions
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# The Gemara Brachot 43b relates a story in which Rav Papa fabricated a testimony from Rava to substantiate his actions so that he wouldn't be embarrassed with what he did incorrectly (Rashi s.v. velo). Magen Giborim 216:5 offers an nuanced interpretation in which Rav Papa didn't make up any testimony. [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/897195/rabbi-hershel-schachter/berachos-86-43b-44b-lying-to-cover-up-mistakes-talking-to-women-in-public-late-to-shul-tuna-fish-kashrus-al-haetz-al-ha-adamah-making-up-brachos/ Rav Schachter (Brachot Shiur 86 min 4)] said that it is scandalous to learn the gemara like Rashi that a rabbi can sometimes lie to save embarrassment and that's why some rishonim disagree. On that Gemara Brachot the Gilyon Hashas points out a Gemara Yerushalmi Nazir 7:1 33b which relates a story in which a student Gavila made up a testimony of what his teacher Rav Acha said and when it was found out that he mistakenly extrapolated and misquoted his teacher, Rav Acha flogged him. That certainly indicates that it is a serious offense to misquote someone. So why was Rav Papa permitted to do what he did? | # The Gemara Brachot 43b relates a story in which Rav Papa fabricated a testimony from Rava to substantiate his actions so that he wouldn't be embarrassed with what he did incorrectly (Rashi s.v. velo). Magen Giborim 216:5 offers an nuanced interpretation in which Rav Papa didn't make up any testimony. [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/897195/rabbi-hershel-schachter/berachos-86-43b-44b-lying-to-cover-up-mistakes-talking-to-women-in-public-late-to-shul-tuna-fish-kashrus-al-haetz-al-ha-adamah-making-up-brachos/ Rav Schachter (Brachot Shiur 86 min 4)] said that it is scandalous to learn the gemara like Rashi that a rabbi can sometimes lie to save embarrassment and that's why some rishonim disagree. On that Gemara Brachot the Gilyon Hashas points out a Gemara Yerushalmi Nazir 7:1 33b which relates a story in which a student Gavila made up a testimony of what his teacher Rav Acha said and when it was found out that he mistakenly extrapolated and misquoted his teacher, Rav Acha flogged him. That certainly indicates that it is a serious offense to misquote someone. So why was Rav Papa permitted to do what he did? | ||
# Also, the Gemara Chullin 111b has a story in which Shmuel seems to have fabricated a story about Rav to convince Rabbi Elazar of his opinion and later Rav denies it. The Maharalbach (Chief Rabbi of Yerushalayim from 1525 until 1545) responsa 121 was very troubled by this gemara and that explained that Shmuel didn't actually make up a story and he was just misunderstood or that he did but he just meant that he was sure that the story could have happened so he said it as though it happened. See Ketav Sofer YD 77 was similarly bothered. | # Also, the Gemara Chullin 111b has a story in which Shmuel seems to have fabricated a story about Rav to convince Rabbi Elazar of his opinion and later Rav denies it. The Maharalbach (Chief Rabbi of Yerushalayim from 1525 until 1545) responsa 121 was very troubled by this gemara and that explained that Shmuel didn't actually make up a story and he was just misunderstood or that he did but he just meant that he was sure that the story could have happened so he said it as though it happened. See Ketav Sofer YD 77 was similarly bothered. | ||
# Also, the Gemara Avoda Zara | # Also, the Gemara Avoda Zara 58a records a story in which Rava altered what he actually said originally to saved being embarrassed by his original mistaken ruling. | ||
## (Also, Eruvin 51a tells a story in which Rav Yosef made up a statement of Rabbi Yosi to support his point, however, there he knew he was right and no one argued with him, and he just said quoted someone great so that Rabba would listen to him. | ## (Also, Eruvin 51a tells a story in which Rav Yosef made up a statement of Rabbi Yosi to support his point, however, there he knew he was right and no one argued with him, and he just said quoted someone great so that Rabba would listen to him. | ||
## The same is true of Gemara Shabbat 115a in which Rabba made up a statement of Rabbi Yochanan so that people would listen to him. | ## The same is true of Gemara Shabbat 115a in which Rabba made up a statement of Rabbi Yochanan so that people would listen to him. | ||
