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Pat Haba Bikisnin: Difference between revisions
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* The Bet Yosef 168:6 quoting the Shibolei HaLeket (Siman 159), Magan Avraham 168:13, and Chaye Adam 54:14 in name of the Gra hold that the amount of meal for this halacha is the amount people normally eat at a regular meal in the morning and evening. (Mishna Brurah 168:24 and Shaar HaTzion 19 also quote the Sefer Eshkol and Shagat Aryeh). However, the Birkei Yosef 186:4 and Kaf HaChaim 168:45 argue that the amount of a meal in this context is the same as a meal for Eruv Chatzerot which is either 3 or 4 KeBaytzim. | * The Bet Yosef 168:6 quoting the Shibolei HaLeket (Siman 159), Magan Avraham 168:13, and Chaye Adam 54:14 in name of the Gra hold that the amount of meal for this halacha is the amount people normally eat at a regular meal in the morning and evening. (Mishna Brurah 168:24 and Shaar HaTzion 19 also quote the Sefer Eshkol and Shagat Aryeh). However, the Birkei Yosef 186:4 and Kaf HaChaim 168:45 argue that the amount of a meal in this context is the same as a meal for Eruv Chatzerot which is either 3 or 4 KeBaytzim. | ||
* Ashkenazim: The Mishna Brurah 168:24 rules that the halacha follows the opinion that a meal is considered by a regular meal people eat but adds that it's proper to be strict for those who are strict to require 4 KeBaytzim (meaning, that preferably one should only eat less than 8 [[Measurements#Kezayit|Kezayitim]] or more than the amount of a regular meal, Vezot HaBracha pg 29). VeZot HaBracha (chap 4, pg 31) writes that according to his calculation for a regular person for regular cake if one eats less than 230 grams that is considered a snack, if one eat more than 280 grams that is certainly a meal. He continues that if one did eat in between 8 [[Measurements#Kezayit|Kezayitim]] and a certain meal, if one is not full make Al HaMichya and if one is full make Birkat HaMazon, yet, in such a case it’s preferable to hear Birkat HaMazon (from someone who’s obligated to make Birkat HaMazon) or to eat bread (making HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon). Halachos of Brachos (Rabbi Bodner, chap 27, pg 488-9) agrees to the above halachot and adds that if one wishes to have more than 8 [[Measurements#Kezayit|Kezayitim]] and less than the amount of a regular meal one may do so but one should first wash and make Hamotzei on a Kezayit of bread. | * Ashkenazim: The Mishna Brurah 168:24 rules that the halacha follows the opinion that a meal is considered by a regular meal people eat but adds that it's proper to be strict for those who are strict to require 4 KeBaytzim (meaning, that preferably one should only eat less than 8 [[Measurements#Kezayit|Kezayitim]] or more than the amount of a regular meal, Vezot HaBracha pg 29). VeZot HaBracha (chap 4, pg 31) writes that according to his calculation for a regular person for regular cake if one eats less than 230 grams that is considered a snack, if one eat more than 280 grams that is certainly a meal. He continues that if one did eat in between 8 [[Measurements#Kezayit|Kezayitim]] and a certain meal, if one is not full make Al HaMichya and if one is full make Birkat HaMazon, yet, in such a case it’s preferable to hear Birkat HaMazon (from someone who’s obligated to make Birkat HaMazon) or to eat bread (making HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon). Halachos of Brachos (Rabbi Bodner, chap 27, pg 488-9) agrees to the above halachot and adds that if one wishes to have more than 8 [[Measurements#Kezayit|Kezayitim]] and less than the amount of a regular meal one may do so but one should first wash and make Hamotzei on a Kezayit of bread. | ||
* Sephardim: Halacha Brurah 168:16 (explained in Otzorot Yosef Siman 9) writes that Sephardim hold like the Chida that if one ate 8 [[Measurements#Kezayit|Kezayitim]] one should make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon, and if one ate less than that one should make Mezonot and Al HaMichya but it's preferable that one shouldn't eat in between 6 and 8 [[Measurements#Kezayit|Kezayitim]]. </ref> | * Sephardim: Halacha Brurah 168:16 (explained in Otzorot Yosef Siman 9) writes that Sephardim hold like the Chida that if one ate 8 [[Measurements#Kezayit|Kezayitim]] one should make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon, and if one ate less than that one should make Mezonot and Al HaMichya but it's preferable that one shouldn't eat in between 6 and 8 [[Measurements#Kezayit|Kezayitim]]. This is also the ruling in Ben Ish Chai Pinchas 19, Kaf Hachayim 168:45, Sh"t Shemesh U'magen 2: hashmatot page 318, and Chazon Ovadia Berachot page 56. </ref> | ||
===When Pas Haba Bekisnin is eaten with other foods?=== | ===When Pas Haba Bekisnin is eaten with other foods?=== | ||
# According to Sephardim even if Pas Haba BeKisnin is eaten with other foods those other foods are not taken into consideration when considering the amount of a meal. <ref>Kaf HaChaim 168:47 rules against the Magan Avraham 168:13 and says that S”A implies that one must be the amount of a meal from the Pat itself. </ref> | # According to Sephardim even if Pas Haba BeKisnin is eaten with other foods those other foods are not taken into consideration when considering the amount of a meal. <ref>Chazon Ovadia Berachot page 55, Sh”t Shemesh Umagen 2:11:page 29, Kaf HaChaim 168:47 rules against the Magan Avraham 168:13 and says that S”A implies that one must be the amount of a meal from the Pat itself. </ref> | ||
# However, according to Ashkenazim the following laws apply: | # However, according to Ashkenazim the following laws apply: | ||
# If one eats 8 Kezayitim of Pas HaBah Bekisnin which is a bread substitute (such as crackers) together with food that is normally eaten with the Pas HaBah Bekisnin (such as meat) and was full then one should HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon. <Ref>See full discussion [[#Pas HaBah Bekisnin with other foods]] </ref> | # If one eats 8 Kezayitim of Pas HaBah Bekisnin which is a bread substitute (such as crackers) together with food that is normally eaten with the Pas HaBah Bekisnin (such as meat) and was full then one should HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon. <Ref>See full discussion [[#Pas HaBah Bekisnin with other foods]] </ref> | ||
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# Regular pizza (no with fruit juice), according to Sephardim has the Bracha of HaMotzei. <Ref> | # Regular pizza (no with fruit juice), according to Sephardim has the Bracha of HaMotzei. <Ref> | ||
* Shulchan Aruch 168:17 rules that bread filled with meat or fish has the Bracha of HaMotzei. The Magan Avraham 168:44 explains the Bracha is HaMotzei as a filling of meat, fish, or cheese doesn’t change the Bracha on bread and only if there’s a sweet filler such as fruit is it considered Pas HaBah Bekisnin. However, the Taz 168:20 holds that for filled bread the Bracha is Mezonot just like if it was filled with sweets unless one eats a keviyut sueda. The Mishna Brurah 168:94 and Biur Halacha D"H Pashtida rules a compromise that if it's normal to eat the bread filled with meat to satisfy hunger and fill one up the bracha is Hamotzei, however, if there's pieces of meat mixed in and it's recognizable that it's meant as a dessert the bracha is Mezonot. | * Shulchan Aruch 168:17 rules that bread filled with meat or fish has the Bracha of HaMotzei. The Magan Avraham 168:44 explains the Bracha is HaMotzei as a filling of meat, fish, or cheese doesn’t change the Bracha on bread and only if there’s a sweet filler such as fruit is it considered Pas HaBah Bekisnin. However, the Taz 168:20 holds that for filled bread the Bracha is Mezonot just like if it was filled with sweets unless one eats a keviyut sueda. The Mishna Brurah 168:94 and Biur Halacha D"H Pashtida rules a compromise that if it's normal to eat the bread filled with meat to satisfy hunger and fill one up the bracha is Hamotzei, however, if there's pieces of meat mixed in and it's recognizable that it's meant as a dessert the bracha is Mezonot. | ||
* Rabbi Ovadyah Yosef (Chazon Ovadyah Brachot, pg 60-1, Halichot Olam vol 2 pg 114, and Sh”t Yabea Omer 9:108(84)) rules like the Magan Avraham and that the Bracha on pizza is Hamotzei. So rules Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 125, Kitzur S”A 168:3), Chacham Ben Tzion Abba Shaul in Or Letzion (vol 2, 12:5), and Rabbi Moshe HaLevi in Birkat Hashem (vol 2, 2:62). Halacha Brurah 168:49-50 is concerned for the opinion of the Taz, however, he concludes it is Hamotzei, but it's preferable to have it in a meal or have more than a keviyut sueda to satisfy all opinions.</ref> According to Ashkenazim, in Israel the poskim hold that the bracha is Hamotzei, <ref> VeZot HaBracha (pg 21) quotes Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Rabbi Pinchas Sheinburg, and Rabbi Moshe Shternbach that the Bracha on pizza (which is made from water and flour) is HaMotzei. </ref> and in America, some say that it depends on one's intent, if one intends to have it as a meal, then the Bracha is HaMotzei and if one intends to have it as a snack the bracha is Mezonot <ref> | * Rabbi Ovadyah Yosef (Chazon Ovadyah Brachot, pg 60-1, Halichot Olam vol 2 pg 114, and Sh”t Yabea Omer 9:108(84)) rules like the Magan Avraham and that the Bracha on pizza is Hamotzei. So rules Yalkut Yosef (Brachot pg 125, Kitzur S”A 168:3), Chacham Ben Tzion Abba Shaul in Or Letzion (vol 2, 12:5), Rav Shmuel Pinchasi in Minchat Shmuel 1:11, and Rabbi Moshe HaLevi in Birkat Hashem (vol 2, 2:62). Halacha Brurah 168:49-50 is concerned for the opinion of the Taz, however, he concludes it is Hamotzei, but it's preferable to have it in a meal or have more than a keviyut sueda to satisfy all opinions.</ref> According to Ashkenazim, in Israel the poskim hold that the bracha is Hamotzei, <ref> VeZot HaBracha (pg 21) quotes Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Rabbi Pinchas Sheinburg, and Rabbi Moshe Shternbach that the Bracha on pizza (which is made from water and flour) is HaMotzei. </ref> and in America, some say that it depends on one's intent, if one intends to have it as a meal, then the Bracha is HaMotzei and if one intends to have it as a snack the bracha is Mezonot <ref> | ||
* Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 499-500, chapter 27) quotes Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach as saying that in America where some people eat it as a snack, it depends on each person's intent. | * Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 499-500, chapter 27) quotes Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach as saying that in America where some people eat it as a snack, it depends on each person's intent. | ||
* [https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=1N_X9Or03WtqrGYxmH4ihquJFMmE9223dznDO3J4ec5m7Sh_2mTjlDfZdikKq&hl=en_US Rabbi Chaim Jachter] quotes Rav Moshe Feinstein as being reported as saying that one slice of pizza is Mezonot and even says that it seems that the minhag is like this opinion. Rav Shmuel Pinchasi (Sefer Minchat Shmuel (vol 1, siman 11, pg 73) also quotes this opinion of Rav Moshe and differentiates that the Bracha on pizza in Israel would be Hamotzei. | * [https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=1N_X9Or03WtqrGYxmH4ihquJFMmE9223dznDO3J4ec5m7Sh_2mTjlDfZdikKq&hl=en_US Rabbi Chaim Jachter] quotes Rav Moshe Feinstein as being reported as saying that one slice of pizza is Mezonot and even says that it seems that the minhag is like this opinion. Rav Shmuel Pinchasi (Sefer Minchat Shmuel (vol 1, siman 11, pg 73) also quotes this opinion of Rav Moshe and differentiates that the Bracha on pizza in Israel would be Hamotzei. | ||
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====Matzah==== | ====Matzah==== | ||
# The Ashkenazic minhag is to make HaMotzei on Matzeh all year round <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 20)</ref> whereas the Sephardic minhag is to make Mezonot and Al HaMichya on Matzah all year round except for Pesach when one makes HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon. Nonetheless, Sephardic authorities add that (for all round besides Pesach) those who want to make HaMotzei on Matzah when eaten as a meal (even without 216 grams) can do so and that a God fearing person would always eat Matzah in a meal with real bread. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 3, pg 20), Yalkut Yosef (Kitzur S”A 168:4), Chazon Ovadyah (Brachot pg | # The Ashkenazic minhag is to make HaMotzei on Matzeh all year round <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 20), Tzitz Eliezer 11:19. Shevet Halevi 1: in the footnotes to SA 168:8 says one should be machmir and eat as part of a meal. Rav Tzvi Pesach frank Sh"t Har Tzvi OC 91 says on the small matza-like crackers to say mezonot, and only say hamotzi if you are kovea seuda on matza. </ref> whereas the Sephardic minhag is to make Mezonot and Al HaMichya on Matzah all year round except for Pesach when one makes HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon. <ref> Chazon Ovadia Berachot page 61, Sh"t shemesh umagen OC 1:34. This is in accordance with the definition of the Aruch D”H Kesen, quoted by Bet Yosef 168:8 quoting Rav Hai Gaon that pat haba bikisnin is a hard cracker-like bread, quoted in SA 168:8.</ref> Nonetheless, Sephardic authorities add that (for all year-round besides Pesach) those who want to make HaMotzei on Matzah when eaten as a meal (even without 216 grams) can do so and that a God fearing person would always eat Matzah in a meal with real bread. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 3, pg 20), Yalkut Yosef (Kitzur S”A 168:4), Chazon Ovadyah (Brachot pg 61), Chida in Machazik Beracha 158:5. </ref> | ||
# On Motzei Pesach before people buy back their chametz, the bracha on Matzah is still HaMotzei. <ref>Chazon Ovadyah (Brachot p 64) </ref> | # On Motzei Pesach before people buy back their chametz, the bracha on Matzah is still HaMotzei. <ref> Chazon Ovadyah (Brachot p 64) </ref> | ||
# If the last day of Pesach falls out on Friday, then the bracha on Matzah for the Shabbat immediately following Pesach is Hamotzei.<ref>Or Letzion (vol 3, p. 100) </ref> | # If the last day of Pesach falls out on Friday, then the bracha on Matzah for the Shabbat immediately following Pesach is Hamotzei.<ref>Or Letzion (vol 3, p. 100) </ref> | ||
