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Pat Haba Bikisnin: Difference between revisions
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→Wraps and Tortillas
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====Wraps and Tortillas==== | ====Wraps and Tortillas==== | ||
[[Image:tortillas.jpg|200px|right]] | [[Image:tortillas.jpg|200px|right]] | ||
# The Bracha on wraps and tortillas is [[HaMotzei]].<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Osqbd7tHHw Rabbi Dovid Feinstein], [https://oukosher.org/halacha-yomis/q-what-bracha-is-recited-on-a-wheat-wrap-or-wheat-tortilla/ Rabbi Yisrael Belsky], Rabbi Yitzchak Yosef (Bracha Neemana p. 638-650), and Rav Dovid Yosef (Shaal Yakov 2:15) all hold that wraps are hamotzei. | # The Bracha on wraps and tortillas is [[HaMotzei|Hamotzei]].<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Osqbd7tHHw Rabbi Dovid Feinstein], [https://oukosher.org/halacha-yomis/q-what-bracha-is-recited-on-a-wheat-wrap-or-wheat-tortilla/ Rabbi Yisrael Belsky], Vezot Habracha (p. 408), Rabbi Yitzchak Yosef (Bracha Neemana p. 638-650), and Rav Dovid Yosef (Shaal Yakov 2:15) all hold that wraps are hamotzei. | ||
*Though there may be a variety of different wraps and wheat-tortillas, this discussion will focus on the common wrap and tortilla, that is a flatbread usually rolled around a filling of meat, salad, or the like (as displayed in the picture to the right). | *Though there may be a variety of different wraps and wheat-tortillas, this discussion will focus on the common wrap and tortilla, that is a flatbread usually rolled around a filling of meat, salad, or the like (as displayed in the picture to the right). | ||
*Is there a difference between wraps and wheat-tortillas? From my research, the answer is no. They are two names for the same food. Wheat or flour tortilla is the Mexican name for the food, whereas wrap is the American alternative. To support this point, see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wraps Wikipedia on Wraps] and [http://www.remezcla.com/2012/latin/flour-tortillas-vs-wraps-mission/ remezcla on the difference between wraps and tortillas]. | *Is there a difference between wraps and wheat-tortillas? From my research, the answer is no. They are two names for the same food. Wheat or flour tortilla is the Mexican name for the food, whereas wrap is the American alternative. To support this point, see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wraps Wikipedia on Wraps] and [http://www.remezcla.com/2012/latin/flour-tortillas-vs-wraps-mission/ remezcla on the difference between wraps and tortillas]. | ||
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*'''Difference of Shape''': Shulchan Aruch 168:15 writes that batter that is poured into a pan, shaped like a bowl, over the fire would have the bracha of [[mezonot]] but would be [[Hamotzei]] if one were to eat it as a meal (Koveh [[Seudah]]). If the batter is poured over an inverted pan, shaped like a bowl, over the fire, the bracha would be [[mezonot]] even if one were to eat it as a meal. The Magen Avraham 168:40 explains that both of these cases are speaking about very thin batter, otherwise they would be [[Hamotzei]]. See the Beiur Halacha 168:15 s.v. Kemach who challenges the Magen Avraham. | *'''Difference of Shape''': Shulchan Aruch 168:15 writes that batter that is poured into a pan, shaped like a bowl, over the fire would have the bracha of [[mezonot]] but would be [[Hamotzei]] if one were to eat it as a meal (Koveh [[Seudah]]). If the batter is poured over an inverted pan, shaped like a bowl, over the fire, the bracha would be [[mezonot]] even if one were to eat it as a meal. The Magen Avraham 168:40 explains that both of these cases are speaking about very thin batter, otherwise they would be [[Hamotzei]]. See the Beiur Halacha 168:15 s.v. Kemach who challenges the Magen Avraham. | ||
*'''Semi-Thick Liquid Batter vs Extremely Thin Batter''': Breads made from a very thin batter are [[mezonot]], however, if one eats it as a meal (Koveh Seduah) the bracha becomes [[HaMotzei]] (Shulchan Aruch 168:8). Yet, if the batter is extremely thin, thinner than that of blintzes (a semi-thick liquid), when poured out it spreads out quickly and forms a very flimsy dough, then the Bach 168:8 writes that the bracha is [[mezonot]] even if one eats it as a meal. For example, he says that wafers have such a consistency. This is quoted by the Magen Avraham 168:40 and Mishna Brurah 168:38. | *'''Semi-Thick Liquid Batter vs Extremely Thin Batter''': Breads made from a very thin batter are [[mezonot]], however, if one eats it as a meal (Koveh Seduah) the bracha becomes [[HaMotzei]] (Shulchan Aruch 168:8). Yet, if the batter is extremely thin, thinner than that of blintzes (a semi-thick liquid), when poured out it spreads out quickly and forms a very flimsy dough, then the Bach 168:8 writes that the bracha is [[mezonot]] even if one eats it as a meal. For example, he says that wafers have such a consistency. This is quoted by the Magen Avraham 168:40 and Mishna Brurah 168:38. | ||
*'''Conclusion''': If wraps and tortillas are made with a thick dough it seems that the bracha should be [[Hamotzei]] even if it has a thin shape. [http://www.ykr.org.il/modules/Ask/answer/8705 An article on ykr.org.il] quotes Or Torah (Iss. 552, 5773 Tamuz 118:17) as saying that wheat tortilla is [[Hamotzei]]. Similarly, [http://www.kipa.co.il/ask/show/232461-%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%94-%D7%A2%D7%9C-%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%94 Kipa.co.il] writes that the bracha on wraps is [[Hamotzei]] (repeated [http://www.kipa.co.il/ask/show/256620-%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%94 here] as well). The same can be found on [http://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%90%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%94%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%94/%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA.aspx toraland.org.il]. The [http://oukosher.org/guide-to-blessings/ OU Guide to Brachos] writes that wraps are [[Hamotzei]] when eaten together with the filling but otherwise are [[mezonot]]. | *'''Conclusion''': If wraps and tortillas are made with a thick dough it seems that the bracha should be [[Hamotzei]] even if it has a thin shape. [http://www.ykr.org.il/modules/Ask/answer/8705 An article on ykr.org.il] quotes Or Torah (Iss. 552, 5773 Tamuz 118:17) as saying that wheat tortilla is [[Hamotzei]]. Similarly, [http://www.kipa.co.il/ask/show/232461-%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%94-%D7%A2%D7%9C-%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%94 Kipa.co.il] writes that the bracha on wraps is [[Hamotzei]] (repeated [http://www.kipa.co.il/ask/show/256620-%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%94 here] as well). The same can be found on [http://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%90%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%94%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%94/%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA.aspx toraland.org.il]. The [http://oukosher.org/guide-to-blessings/ OU Guide to Brachos] writes that wraps are [[Hamotzei]] when eaten together with the filling but otherwise are [[mezonot]]. Vezot Habracha (p. 408 fnt. 149) writes that a wrap used for a meal is hamotzei, but a wrap used for a snack is safek hamotzei. | ||
*'''Sephardim''': Bracha Neemana (p. 638-650) quotes Rabbi Yitzchak Yosef, Rabbi Avraham Yosef, Rabbi Yehuda Bracha, and Rabbi Yehuda Bracha agree that wheat wraps are hamotzei. Shaal Yakov 2:15 quotes Rav Dovid Yosef as also holding that wraps are hamotzei. This is all true unless they’re made with sweet juice and the wrap tastes sweet, in which case it is mezonot. However, Birkat Hashem (v. 2 p. 141 fnt. 57) holds that wraps are mezonot since they are very thin and bend easily. Also, Shaal Yakov 2:15 quotes that Rav Gidon ben Moshe originally held that it is hamotzei and then changed his mind to hold that it is mezonot. The reason for Birkat Hashem is that since it is so thin it isn’t considered torat pat, even though it was originally made as a dough. However, Shaal Yakov disagrees with his understanding of Rashba; also he writes that either way most rishonim and poskim disagree with this approach and hold that anything which was originally made as a dough is hamotzei. See [https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/details?shiurID=1083191 R' Sultan's shiur] on the topic.</ref> | *'''Sephardim''': Bracha Neemana (p. 638-650) quotes Rabbi Yitzchak Yosef, Rabbi Avraham Yosef, Rabbi Yehuda Bracha, and Rabbi Yehuda Bracha agree that wheat wraps are hamotzei. Shaal Yakov 2:15 quotes Rav Dovid Yosef as also holding that wraps are hamotzei. This is all true unless they’re made with sweet juice and the wrap tastes sweet, in which case it is mezonot. However, Birkat Hashem (v. 2 p. 141 fnt. 57) holds that wraps are mezonot since they are very thin and bend easily. Also, Shaal Yakov 2:15 quotes that Rav Gidon ben Moshe originally held that it is hamotzei and then changed his mind to hold that it is mezonot. The reason for Birkat Hashem is that since it is so thin it isn’t considered torat pat, even though it was originally made as a dough. However, Shaal Yakov disagrees with his understanding of Rashba; also he writes that either way most rishonim and poskim disagree with this approach and hold that anything which was originally made as a dough is hamotzei. See [https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/details?shiurID=1083191 R' Sultan's shiur] on the topic.</ref> | ||
