Pat Haba Bikisnin: Difference between revisions

# If one made [[Mezonot]] planning to have a few Kezyitim, and then changes to have another few [[Measurements#Kezayit|Kezayitim]] and in total what he ate will add up to 8 [[Measurements#Kezayit|Kezayitim]] one shouldn’t make any new bracha upon changing one’s mind. However, if one started thinking that one would not have more than a certain amount and now clearly changes his mind about that, one should make a new [[Mezonot]]. Nonetheless, one concludes with [[Birkat HaMazon]]. <ref> Mishna Brurah 168:25 writes that if one changed one’s mind one doesn’t make a new [[HaMotzei]] if one doesn’t plan on eating more than 8 [[Measurements#Kezayit|Kezayitim]]. Mishna Brurah (Shaar Tzion 168:21) writes that one shouldn’t make a new [[Mezonot]] unless one clearly changed one’s mind such as if when he started he thought that he will not eat more than a certain amount, however, if one didn’t clearly retract his opinion then one doesn’t make a new [[Mezonot]]. </ref>

# In general, the rule is as follows: If one decides, while eating, to eat more than he originally planned, whether or not he should recite Hamotzi depends only on the amount he intends to eat. Contrastingly, reciting Al Ha’michya or Birkat Ha’mazon is determined by the amount one actually eats. <ref>Rabbi Binyomin Forst, The Laws of B’rachos p. 252 </ref>

# According to many poskim to be considered pat haba bikisnin, the filling must not be a “meal” food, for example meat, fish, cheese, or vegetables (unless the pastry is clearly made to be eaten as a snack). If it was filled with cheese or meat according to Ashkenazim if the food is always eaten as a snack the bracha is mezonot, but if it is eaten as a meal type food it is mezonot. According to Sephardim it is hamotzei.<ref> Shulchan Aruch O.C. 168:17 writes that dough baked with meat or cheese is considered hamotzei. The achronim ask why it isn't considered pat haba bkisnin. The Taz 168:6 in fact concludes that it should be pat haba bkisnin. However, the Magen Avraham 168:44 suggests that perhaps dough filled with a sweet filling is considered mezonot but dough filled with a meal type food such as cheese or meat makes the resulting food hamotzei. The Mishna Brurah (Biur Halacha 168:17 s.v. pashtida) makes a compromise; if the resulting dough with cheese or meat is considered a snack it is mezonot but if it is a meal type food it is hamotzei. Vezot Habracha ch.

# The Bracha on wraps and tortillas is [[HaMotzei]].<ref>

* Though there may be a variety of different wraps and wheat-tortillas, this discussion will focus on the common wrap and tortilla, that is a flatbread usually rolled around a filling of meat, salad, or the like (as displayed in the picture to the right).  

* Is there a difference between wraps and wheat-tortillas? From my research, the answer is no. They are two names for the same food. Wheat or flour tortilla is the Mexican name for the food, whereas wrap is the American alternative. To support this point, see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wraps Wikipedia on Wraps] and [http://www.remezcla.com/2012/latin/flour-tortillas-vs-wraps-mission/ remezcla on the difference between wraps and tortillas].  

* How are wraps and tortillas made? From several accounts, it seems clear that wraps and tortillas are made from a thick dough that is rolled out and cooked in a frying pan without oil or with a minimal amount. The wheat flour is always the primary ingredient and there is also water or a substitute, such as milk. To prove this point, see [http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Your-Own-Tortillas a Wikihow article], [http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Flour-Tortillas another Wikihow article], or [http://www.cooking-mexican-recipes.com/flour_tortilla_recipe.html a video on cooking-mexican-recipes].  

* In terms of the bracha, a few factors should be considered. 1) The ingredients other than flour and water and 2) The thinness of the wrap or tortilla.  

* In terms of the other ingredients, the issue to consider is whether the wrap becomes Pat Haba Bikisnin because of those ingredients. According to Sephardim, following Shulchan Aruch 168:7, if the flavor of the milk, oil, or the like can be tasted and makes it taste significantly different from bread, the bracha would be [[mezonot]]. According to Ashkenazim, following Mishna Brurah 168:33, only if there was a majority of ingredients in comparison to the amount of water would the bracha be [[mezonot]]. For more on this issue, see above.  

* '''Baking vs Frying''': Shulchan Aruch 168:13 writes that thick dough which was cooked or fried is [[mezonot]], but some disagree and hold that it is [[Hamotzei]]. Rama 168:14 comments that if one fries bread in a pan without any oil or with just enough oil to prevent it from burning, it is considered like baking and the bracha would be [[Hamotzei]]. Accordingly, wraps and tortillas are considered as though they are baked.

* '''Crackers''': Shulchan Aruch 168:7 quotes the opinion of Rav Hai Goan that flatbread that is hard, dry, and cracks is [[mezonot]]. This is simply not applicable to wraps or tortilla.  

* '''Thin Form''': In the other extreme, Shulchan Aruch 168:8, explained by the Mishna Brurah 168:36, writes that regular soft bread made from dough is [[HaMotzei]] even if it is made into a thin form. For example, pita is [[Hamotzei]] even though the shape is thin (Vezot Habracha p. 395).

* The next section we address the thinness of the batter.

* '''Thin Batter vs Liquid Batter''': The Rama 168:14 writes that bread which was made from thin batter, which was baked in the oven, is [[Hamotzei]]. On the other hand, Shulchan Aruch 168:8 writes that bread (lachmaniyot) made with a thin batter is [[mezonot]]. The Magen Avraham 168:20 answers that Shulchan Aruch only meant that it is [[mezonot]] if the batter is very thin. For example, the Bach 168:8, Magen Avraham 168:20, and Mishna Brurah 168:37 write that blintze dough is [[mezonot]] because it is made with very thin batter. To clarify, Mishna Brurah 168:37 explains that very thin batter is something that pours and is a similar consistency to porridge.  

* '''Difference of Shape''': Shulchan Aruch 168:15 writes that batter that is poured into a pan, shaped like a bowl, over the fire would have the bracha of [[mezonot]] but would be [[Hamotzei]] if one were to eat it as a meal (Koveh [[Seudah]]). If the batter is poured over an inverted pan, shaped like a bowl, over the fire, the bracha would be [[mezonot]] even if one were to eat it as a meal. The Magen Avraham 168:40 explains that both of these cases are speaking about very thin batter, otherwise they would be [[Hamotzei]]. See the Beiur Halacha 168:15 s.v. Kemach who challenges the Magen Avraham.

* '''Semi-Thick Liquid Batter vs Extremely Thin Batter''': Breads made from a very thin batter are [[mezonot]], however, if one eats it as a meal (Koveh Seduah) the bracha becomes [[HaMotzei]] (Shulchan Aruch 168:8). Yet, if the batter is extremely thin, thinner than that of blintzes (a semi-thick liquid), when poured out it spreads out quickly and forms a very flimsy dough, then the Bach 168:8 writes that the bracha is [[mezonot]] even if one eats it as a meal. For example, he says that wafers have such a consistency. This is quoted by the Magen Avraham 168:40 and Mishna Brurah 168:38.  

* '''Conclusion''': If wraps and tortillas are made with a thick dough it seems that the bracha should be [[Hamotzei]] even if it has a thin shape. [http://www.ykr.org.il/modules/Ask/answer/8705 An article on ykr.org.il] quotes Or Torah (Iss. 552, 5773 Tamuz 118:17) as saying that wheat tortilla is [[Hamotzei]]. Similarly, [http://www.kipa.co.il/ask/show/232461-%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%94-%D7%A2%D7%9C-%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%94 Kipa.co.il] writes that the bracha on wraps is [[Hamotzei]] (repeated [http://www.kipa.co.il/ask/show/256620-%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%94 here] as well). The same can be found on [http://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%90%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%94%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%94/%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA.aspx toraland.org.il]. The [http://oukosher.org/guide-to-blessings/ OU Guide to Brachos] writes that wraps are [[Hamotzei]] when eaten together with the filling but otherwise are [[mezonot]]. See there for the reasoning. </ref>

# The Ashkenazic minhag is to make [[HaMotzei]] on Matzeh all year round <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 20), Tzitz Eliezer 11:19. [[Shevet Halevi]] 1: in the footnotes to SA 168:8 says one should be machmir and eat as part of a meal. Rav Tzvi [[Pesach]] frank Sh"t Har Tzvi OC 91 says on the small [[matza]]-like crackers to say [[mezonot]], and only say hamotzi if you are kovea seuda on [[matza]]. </ref> whereas the Sephardic minhag is to make [[Mezonot]] and [[Al HaMichya]] on [[Matzah]] all year round except for [[Pesach]] when one makes [[HaMotzei]] and [[Birkat HaMazon]]. <ref> Chazon Ovadia [[Berachot]] page 61, Sh"t Yechave Daat 3:12, Sh"t Shemesh U'magen OC 1:34. This is in accordance with the definition of the Aruch s.v. Kesen, quoted by Bet Yosef 168:8 quoting Rav Hai Gaon that pat haba bikisnin is a hard, cracker-like bread, quoted in SA 168:8.</ref> Nonetheless, Sephardic authorities add that (for all year-round besides [[Pesach]]) those who want to make [[HaMotzei]] on [[Matzah]] when eaten as a meal (even without 216 grams) can do so and that a God fearing person would always eat [[Matzah]] in a meal with real bread. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 3, pg 20), Yalkut Yosef (Kitzur S”A 168:4), Chazon Ovadyah ([[Brachot]] pg 61), Sh"t Yechave Daat 3:12, Chida in Machazik Beracha 158:5. </ref>