Pat Haba Bikisnin: Difference between revisions
From Halachipedia
→Matzah
(→Matzah) |
|||
| (2 intermediate revisions by one other user not shown) | |||
| Line 84: | Line 84: | ||
===Third Category: Cracker=== | ===Third Category: Cracker=== | ||
# If the dough is cooked into a food that's hard and crumbles the bracha is [[Mezonot]]. <ref> Shulchan Aruch 168:7. Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 3) points out that the Mishna Brurah (168:35) writes that it must be that it's usual to be eaten as a snack. </ref> | # If the dough is cooked into a food that's hard and crumbles the bracha is [[Mezonot]]. <ref> Shulchan Aruch 168:7. Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 3) points out that the Mishna Brurah (168:35) writes that it must be that it's usual to be eaten as a snack. </ref> | ||
# Pita chips are hamotzei since they were made to be a bread first and the leftover pitas are made into chips.<ref>[http://matzav.com/readers-matzav-pita-chips-bracha-issue/ Matzav.com] citing the OU</ref> | # Pita chips are hamotzei since they were made to be a bread first and the leftover pitas are made into chips.<ref>[http://matzav.com/readers-matzav-pita-chips-bracha-issue/ Matzav.com] citing the OU, [http://berachot.org/Q+A/index.html#45 Berachot.org]</ref> | ||
===Cooked Mezonot=== | ===Cooked Mezonot=== | ||
| Line 138: | Line 138: | ||
# Since '[[Mezonot]]' rolls are primarily eaten as part of a meal, many say that the bracha is [[HaMotzei]] (even if one eats a little) <ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 19 and pg 386) in name of Rav Elyashiv, Rav Nissim Karelitz, and Or Letzion (Vol 2, 12:4). Many American rabbis ruled that the bracha is [[HaMotzei]] including Rabbi Avraham Bik, Rabbi Reuven Feinstein, Rabbi Moshe Heinemann, Rav Moshe Shtern, Rabbi Yisrael Belsky, Rabbi Avrham Bloomenkrantz, and Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 498-9, chapter 27) in name of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman regarding America. </ref> and some say the bracha is [[Mezonot]] <ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 18, chapter 3) in name of Rav Shlomo Zalman and the rabbis on the Badatz Edah Charedit </ref>. Therefore, one should eat it as part of a meal and make [[HaMotzei]]. <Ref> http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/common/article/the_mezonos_roll_is_it_a_piece_of_cake_by_rabbi_yaakov_luban/ is the OU's position based on a Teshuva of Rabbi Yisrael Belsky which is that if a [[Mezonot]] roll is eaten as part of the meal the bracha is [[HaMotzei]], see [[Making a meal on Mezonot]]. This is also the opinion of the Star-K http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-issues-pashabah.htm. </ref> However, if that’s impossible, one has what to rely on to make a [[HaMotzei]], and one has what to rely on to make a [[Mezonot]]. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Birur 56, pg 352) </ref> | # Since '[[Mezonot]]' rolls are primarily eaten as part of a meal, many say that the bracha is [[HaMotzei]] (even if one eats a little) <ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 19, chapter 19 and pg 386) in name of Rav Elyashiv, Rav Nissim Karelitz, and Or Letzion (Vol 2, 12:4). Many American rabbis ruled that the bracha is [[HaMotzei]] including Rabbi Avraham Bik, Rabbi Reuven Feinstein, Rabbi Moshe Heinemann, Rav Moshe Shtern, Rabbi Yisrael Belsky, Rabbi Avrham Bloomenkrantz, and Veten Bracha (Halachos of Brochos by Rabbi Bodner pg 498-9, chapter 27) in name of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman regarding America. </ref> and some say the bracha is [[Mezonot]] <ref> Vezot HaBracha (pg 18, chapter 3) in name of Rav Shlomo Zalman and the rabbis on the Badatz Edah Charedit </ref>. Therefore, one should eat it as part of a meal and make [[HaMotzei]]. <Ref> http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/common/article/the_mezonos_roll_is_it_a_piece_of_cake_by_rabbi_yaakov_luban/ is the OU's position based on a Teshuva of Rabbi Yisrael Belsky which is that if a [[Mezonot]] roll is eaten as part of the meal the bracha is [[HaMotzei]], see [[Making a meal on Mezonot]]. This is also the opinion of the Star-K http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-issues-pashabah.htm. </ref> However, if that’s impossible, one has what to rely on to make a [[HaMotzei]], and one has what to rely on to make a [[Mezonot]]. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Birur 56, pg 352) </ref> | ||
# In a technical sense it isn't considered absolving oneself of a mitzvah to make bread into Pat Haba Bkisnin in order not to wash.<ref>Kaneh Bosem 3:10 explains that Brachot are a mitzvah relevant to the person and therefore there is no issue with making bread into something that is mezonot. He distinguishes it from [[Challah]] which is forbidden to make in some proportions in order to absolve oneself of the mitzvah to take Challah. That is a mitzvah that emanates from the dough itself. He also cites Tosfot Brachot 37b s.v. amar in which the practice of Rabbenu Dovid to make mezonot bread in order to rush to shiur is recorded.</ref> | # In a technical sense it isn't considered absolving oneself of a mitzvah to make bread into Pat Haba Bkisnin in order not to wash.<ref>Kaneh Bosem 3:10 explains that Brachot are a mitzvah relevant to the person and therefore there is no issue with making bread into something that is mezonot. He distinguishes it from [[Challah]] which is forbidden to make in some proportions in order to absolve oneself of the mitzvah to take Challah. That is a mitzvah that emanates from the dough itself. He also cites Tosfot Brachot 37b s.v. amar in which the practice of Rabbenu Dovid to make mezonot bread in order to rush to shiur is recorded.</ref> | ||
# For Sephardim the "mezonot" rolls are hamotzei if they taste like regular bread and mezonot if they taste sweet because of the juices that they are made with.<ref>[https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=95205 Rav Yitzchak Yosef (Motzei Shabbat Vayera 5780 min 51)] stated that the halacha of pat haba bkisnin depends on whether a person tastes the flavor of the sweetness in the bread as he writes in Yalkut Yosef 168. He added that when he was on the airplane and was served a "mezonot" roll he tasted it and it was in fact hamotzei.</ref> | |||
====Pizza==== | ====Pizza==== | ||
| Line 150: | Line 151: | ||
====Matzah==== | ====Matzah==== | ||
# The Ashkenazic minhag is to make [[HaMotzei]] on Matzeh all year round <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 20), Tzitz Eliezer 11:19. [[Shevet Halevi]] 1: in the footnotes to SA 168:8 says one should be machmir and eat as part of a meal. Rav Tzvi | # The Ashkenazic minhag is to make [[HaMotzei]] on Matzeh all year round <ref>Vezot HaBracha (pg 20), Tzitz Eliezer 11:19. [[Shevet Halevi]] 1: in the footnotes to SA 168:8 says one should be machmir and eat as part of a meal. Rav Tzvi Pesach Frank Sh"t Har Tzvi OC 91 says on the small [[matza]]-like crackers to say [[mezonot]], and only say hamotzi if you are kovea seuda on [[matza]]. </ref> whereas the Sephardic minhag is to make [[Mezonot]] and [[Al HaMichya]] on [[Matzah]] all year round except for [[Pesach]] when one makes [[HaMotzei]] and [[Birkat HaMazon]].<ref> Chazon Ovadia [[Berachot]] page 61, Sh"t Yechave Daat 3:12, Sh"t Shemesh U'magen OC 1:34. This is in accordance with the definition of the Aruch s.v. Kesen, quoted by Bet Yosef 168:8 quoting Rav Hai Gaon that pat haba bikisnin is a hard, cracker-like bread, quoted in SA 168:8. [https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=146562 Rav Dovid Yosef] notes that his father, Rav Ovadia Yosef, for long periods of time recited hamotzei on matzah because it was the only food he could eat because of his health, however, for everyone else the bracha is mezonot. | ||
* Rabbi Baruch Simon in Hamashbir v. 2 p. 42 writes that he heard directly from Chacham Ovadia that he would recite hamotzei without exempting it with bread. He cites that Siman Bracha 1 p. 18 by Rabbi Pinchas Raz writes explicitly the same thing. However, Rav Dovid Yosef in Orchot Maran 13:8 quotes that Rav Ovadia would exempt it with other bread but always held it is mezonot according to the strict law. He said he checked with him just a few months before he passed away. Rav Shimon Lalush (Mishnat Yosef 5776 Sivan-Tamuz p. 97) writes that Rav Yitzchak Yosef said that you can't extrapolate from Rav Ovadia did since for medical reasons he couldn't eat so much bread so he ate matzah and since it was his primary bread he made hamotzei.</ref> Nonetheless, Sephardic authorities add that (for all year-round besides [[Pesach]]) those who want to make [[HaMotzei]] on [[Matzah]] when eaten as a meal (even without 216 grams) can do so and that a God fearing person would always eat [[Matzah]] in a meal with real bread.<Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 3, pg 20), Yalkut Yosef (Kitzur S”A 168:4), Chazon Ovadyah ([[Brachot]] pg 61), Sh"t Yechave Daat 3:12, Chida in Machazik Beracha 158:5. </ref> | |||
# On Motzei [[Pesach]] before people buy back their chametz, the bracha on [[Matzah]] is still [[HaMotzei]]. <ref> Chazon Ovadyah ([[Brachot]] p 64) </ref> | # On Motzei [[Pesach]] before people buy back their chametz, the bracha on [[Matzah]] is still [[HaMotzei]]. <ref> Chazon Ovadyah ([[Brachot]] p 64) </ref> | ||
# If the last day of [[Pesach]] falls out on Friday, then the bracha on [[Matzah]] for the [[Shabbat]] immediately following [[Pesach]] is [[Hamotzei]].<ref>Or Letzion (vol 3:9:4) </ref> | # If the last day of [[Pesach]] falls out on Friday, then the bracha on [[Matzah]] for the [[Shabbat]] immediately following [[Pesach]] is [[Hamotzei]].<ref>Or Letzion (vol 3:9:4) </ref> | ||
