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Pat Haba Bikisnin: Difference between revisions
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→Cooked Mezonot
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===Cooked Mezonot=== | ===Cooked Mezonot=== | ||
# The following foods are called cooked [[Mezonot]], which don't resemble bread, and even if one eats a Shuir Seuda one makes a [[Mezonot]]: Farina, oatmeal, noodles, rice, soup nuts, farfel, couscous, blintzes, noodle kugel*, and wafers*. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 26). There he mentions that majority of poskim hold that kugel is Tavshil [[Mezonot]] and similarly concerning wafers there’s some doubt in the poskim even though the primary halacha is that it’s Tavshil [[Mezonot]]. </ref> | # The following foods are called cooked [[Mezonot]], which don't resemble bread, and even if one eats a Shuir Seuda one makes a [[Mezonot]]: Farina, oatmeal, noodles, rice, soup nuts, farfel, couscous, blintzes, crepes, noodle kugel*, and wafers*. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 26). There he mentions that majority of poskim hold that kugel is Tavshil [[Mezonot]] and similarly concerning wafers there’s some doubt in the poskim even though the primary halacha is that it’s Tavshil [[Mezonot]]. Halacha Brurah 168:28 writes that blintzes and crepes are so thin that they are mezonot even if eaten as a meal.</ref> | ||
# Most poskim hold that noodle kugel is considered a cooked mezonot and would always be mezonot even if one had a meal of it. However, some say that it is considered a baked mezonot and could become hamotzei if eaten as a meal. <ref>Regular noodles are certainly mezonot because they doesn't resemble bread since it is so thin and boiled (Rama 168:13). The only question is if it is later baked whether that makes it into pat ha'ba be'kisnin, which becomes hamotzei if eaten as a meal, or it remains a tavshil mezonot, which is mezonot even eaten as a meal. Noodle kugel is such an example of noodles that are boiled and then baked. Or Letzion 2:12:6 writes that noodle kugel is mezonot and remains a non-bread mezonot since it is still a thin dough and doesn't resemble bread. Additionally, Vezot Habracha (Birur Halacha 5, p. 218) quotes Rav Shlomo Zalman, Rav Sheinberg, and other poskim who consider noodle kugel to be a tavshil mezonot. Rav Shlomo Zalman added that it should remain a tavshil mezonot since the noodles are still recognizable. Additionally, Shaarei Bracha (p. 146) explains that it is a tavshil mezonot since it is fully cooked before it is baked. However, Rav Elyashiv is of the an opinion (quoted by Vezot HaBracha) that noodle kugel is a pat habah bekisnin since it is baked. His proof is the Mieri (Pesachim 36b s.v. iysa) who says that bread which is boiled and then baked is hamotzei. </ref> See also [[Bracha on Bagels]]. | # Most poskim hold that noodle kugel is considered a cooked mezonot and would always be mezonot even if one had a meal of it. However, some say that it is considered a baked mezonot and could become hamotzei if eaten as a meal. <ref>Regular noodles are certainly mezonot because they doesn't resemble bread since it is so thin and boiled (Rama 168:13). The only question is if it is later baked whether that makes it into pat ha'ba be'kisnin, which becomes hamotzei if eaten as a meal, or it remains a tavshil mezonot, which is mezonot even eaten as a meal. Noodle kugel is such an example of noodles that are boiled and then baked. Or Letzion 2:12:6 writes that noodle kugel is mezonot and remains a non-bread mezonot since it is still a thin dough and doesn't resemble bread. Additionally, Vezot Habracha (Birur Halacha 5, p. 218) quotes Rav Shlomo Zalman, Rav Sheinberg, and other poskim who consider noodle kugel to be a tavshil mezonot. Rav Shlomo Zalman added that it should remain a tavshil mezonot since the noodles are still recognizable. Additionally, Shaarei Bracha (p. 146) explains that it is a tavshil mezonot since it is fully cooked before it is baked. However, Rav Elyashiv is of the an opinion (quoted by Vezot HaBracha) that noodle kugel is a pat habah bekisnin since it is baked. His proof is the Mieri (Pesachim 36b s.v. iysa) who says that bread which is boiled and then baked is hamotzei. </ref> See also [[Bracha on Bagels]]. | ||
# A similar discussion could be had of lasagna. However, in conclusion the bracha is mezonot.<ref>Lasanga seems to have the same status as noodle kugel. In any event, Vezot HaBracha (Birur Halacha 5, p. 219) writes that the bracha on lasagna is mezonot since it doesn't resemble bread. He writes that even if it isn't boiled beforehand, it is mezonot since it doesn't resemble the look of bread at all. </ref> | # A similar discussion could be had of lasagna. However, in conclusion the bracha is mezonot.<ref>Lasanga seems to have the same status as noodle kugel. In any event, Vezot HaBracha (Birur Halacha 5, p. 219) writes that the bracha on lasagna is mezonot since it doesn't resemble bread. He writes that even if it isn't boiled beforehand, it is mezonot since it doesn't resemble the look of bread at all. </ref> | ||
