Pat Haba Bikisnin: Difference between revisions

* The Even Haozer 168:13 is very bothered how the menachot could be hamotzei (Brachot 37b) if they are made with oil. He concludes that since only a Log of oil is added to a Isaron of flour that is still bread and not Pat Haba Bikisnin, even though the taste of the oil was discernible. Magen Giborim (Shiltei Giborim 168:23) agrees with his proof but points out that this fits with the Rama since the oil is a minority. He adds that even the Bet Yosef would answer that menachot are hamotzei since they are usually eaten as a meal and that is main criteria in deciding what is hamotzei. [In precise measurements of the menachot, each Log was 4 Reviyot which is 6 Kebaytzim and the Isaron was 43.2 Kebaytzim, yielding a ratio of 6:43.2 = 13.9% oil compared to flour. But if we compare the oil to water ratio as the Mishna Brurah 168:33 and Vezot Habracha p. 17 does, then we would conclude with a ratio of 20% or more of oil compared to total liquids. For each cup of flour there's 0.6 cups liquids to knead it (https://lifehacker.com/how-to-free-yourself-from-recipes-with-a-few-golden-coo-1450617561). Therefore, if 43.2 Kebeytzim of flour need 25.9 (=43.2*0.6) Kbeytzim of liquid to knead it and 6 Kbeytzim of those are oil then you have a 23% (=6/25.9) oil as part of the total liquid. If a lower ratio of flour to water is used such as 0.33 cups of water per cup of flour (https://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/basic-homemade-bread, https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/hearth-bread-recipe) then the oil is 42% of the total liquid. Either way these measurements yield less than 50% of oil in the total liquid.]</ref> However, water mixed into the sweeteners such as diluted fruited juice or margarine (usually 15% water) isn’t included in the calculations of sweeteners to water. <Ref>VeZot HaBracha (pg 17) in name of [[Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach]] and Sh”t Shevet HaLevi 9:44 </ref>

# According to Sephardim, if the taste of the sweeteners is recognizable in the dough, then the Bracha is [[mezonot]]. <Ref>Shulchan Aruch 168:7, Kaf Hachaim 168:58, Yalkut Yosef ([[Brachot]] pg 129, Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 168:7), Chazon Ovadia (Brachot p. 55) </ref> Even if the majority is sweeteners in comparison to the water unless the taste is recognizable the bracha is Hamotzei.<ref>Chazon Ovadia (Brachot p. 60) writes that the criteria for Sephardim is whether the taste of the sweeteners is recognizable whether or not there is a majority of sweeteners or not. This is in opposition to the opinion of the Daat Torah 168:7 who writes that if there is a majority of sweet fruit juice in comparison to the water it is mezonot even if the taste isn't recognizable. Therefore, Chazon Ovadia concludes that pizza made with milk and water is hamotzei unless the milk is tasted in the dough. Halacha Brurah 168:22 agrees.</ref>

===Second Category: Wafer===