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Pat Haba Bikisnin: Difference between revisions

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* In terms of the bracha, a few factors should be considered. 1) The ingredients other than flour and water and 2) The thinness of the wrap or tortilla.  
* In terms of the bracha, a few factors should be considered. 1) The ingredients other than flour and water and 2) The thinness of the wrap or tortilla.  
* In terms of the other ingredients, the issue to consider is whether the wrap becomes Pat Haba Bikisnin because of those ingredients. According to Sephardim, following Shulchan Aruch 168:7, if the flavor of the milk, oil, or the like can be tasted and makes it taste significantly different from bread, the bracha would be [[mezonot]]. According to Ashkenazim, following Mishna Brurah 168:33, only if there was a majority of ingredients in comparison to the amount of water would the bracha be [[mezonot]]. For more on this issue, see above.  
* In terms of the other ingredients, the issue to consider is whether the wrap becomes Pat Haba Bikisnin because of those ingredients. According to Sephardim, following Shulchan Aruch 168:7, if the flavor of the milk, oil, or the like can be tasted and makes it taste significantly different from bread, the bracha would be [[mezonot]]. According to Ashkenazim, following Mishna Brurah 168:33, only if there was a majority of ingredients in comparison to the amount of water would the bracha be [[mezonot]]. For more on this issue, see above.  
* '''Baking vs Frying''': Shulchan Aruch 186:13 writes that thick dough which was cooked or fried is [[mezonot]], but some disagree and hold that it is [[Hamotzei]]. Rama 168:14 comments that if one fries bread in a pan without any oil or with just enough oil to prevent it from burning, it is considered like baking and the bracha would be [[Hamotzei]]. Accordingly, wraps and tortillas are considered as though they are baked.
* '''Baking vs Frying''': Shulchan Aruch 168:13 writes that thick dough which was cooked or fried is [[mezonot]], but some disagree and hold that it is [[Hamotzei]]. Rama 168:14 comments that if one fries bread in a pan without any oil or with just enough oil to prevent it from burning, it is considered like baking and the bracha would be [[Hamotzei]]. Accordingly, wraps and tortillas are considered as though they are baked.
* '''Crackers''': Shulchan Aruch 168:7 quotes the opinion of Rav Hai Goan that flatbread that is hard, dry, and cracks is [[mezonot]]. This is simply not applicable to wraps or tortilla.  
* '''Crackers''': Shulchan Aruch 168:7 quotes the opinion of Rav Hai Goan that flatbread that is hard, dry, and cracks is [[mezonot]]. This is simply not applicable to wraps or tortilla.  
* '''Thin Form''': In the other extreme, Shulchan Aruch 186:8, explained by the Mishna Brurah 186:36, writes that regular soft bread made from dough is [[HaMotzei]] even if it is made into a thin form. For example, pita is [[Hamotzei]] even though the shape is thin (Vezot Habracha p. 395).
* '''Thin Form''': In the other extreme, Shulchan Aruch 168:8, explained by the Mishna Brurah 168:36, writes that regular soft bread made from dough is [[HaMotzei]] even if it is made into a thin form. For example, pita is [[Hamotzei]] even though the shape is thin (Vezot Habracha p. 395).
* The next section we address the thinness of the batter.
* The next section we address the thinness of the batter.
* '''Thin Batter vs Liquid Batter''': The Rama 168:14 writes that bread which was made from thin batter, which was baked in the oven, is [[Hamotzei]]. On the other hand, Shulchan Aruch 168:8 writes that bread (lachmaniyot) made with a thin batter is [[mezonot]]. The Magen Avraham 168:20 answers that Shulchan Aruch only meant that it is [[mezonot]] if the batter is very thin. For example, the Bach 186:8, Magen Avraham 186:20, and Mishna Brurah 186:37 write that blintze dough is [[mezonot]] because it is made with very thin batter. To clarify, Mishna Brurah 168:37 explains that very thin batter is something that pours and is a similar consistency to porridge.  
* '''Thin Batter vs Liquid Batter''': The Rama 168:14 writes that bread which was made from thin batter, which was baked in the oven, is [[Hamotzei]]. On the other hand, Shulchan Aruch 168:8 writes that bread (lachmaniyot) made with a thin batter is [[mezonot]]. The Magen Avraham 168:20 answers that Shulchan Aruch only meant that it is [[mezonot]] if the batter is very thin. For example, the Bach 168:8, Magen Avraham 168:20, and Mishna Brurah 168:37 write that blintze dough is [[mezonot]] because it is made with very thin batter. To clarify, Mishna Brurah 168:37 explains that very thin batter is something that pours and is a similar consistency to porridge.  
* '''Difference of Shape''': Shulchan Aruch 186:15 writes that batter that is poured into a pan, shaped like a bowl, over the fire would have the bracha of [[mezonot]] but would be [[Hamotzei]] if one were to eat it as a meal (Koveh [[Seudah]]). If the batter is poured over an inverted pan, shaped like a bowl, over the fire, the bracha would be [[mezonot]] even if one were to eat it as a meal. The Magen Avraham 168:40 explains that both of these cases are speaking about very thin batter, otherwise they would be [[Hamotzei]]. See the Beiur Halacha 168:15 s.v. Kemach who challenges the Magen Avraham.
* '''Difference of Shape''': Shulchan Aruch 168:15 writes that batter that is poured into a pan, shaped like a bowl, over the fire would have the bracha of [[mezonot]] but would be [[Hamotzei]] if one were to eat it as a meal (Koveh [[Seudah]]). If the batter is poured over an inverted pan, shaped like a bowl, over the fire, the bracha would be [[mezonot]] even if one were to eat it as a meal. The Magen Avraham 168:40 explains that both of these cases are speaking about very thin batter, otherwise they would be [[Hamotzei]]. See the Beiur Halacha 168:15 s.v. Kemach who challenges the Magen Avraham.
* '''Semi-Thick Liquid Batter vs Extremely Thin Batter''': Breads made from a very thin batter are [[mezonot]], however, if one eats it as a meal (Koveh Seduah) the bracha becomes [[HaMotzei]] (Shulchan Aruch 168:8). Yet, if the batter is extremely thin, thinner than that of blintzes (a semi-thick liquid), when poured out it spreads out quickly and forms a very flimsy dough, then the Bach 186:8 writes that the bracha is [[mezonot]] even if one eats it as a meal. For example, he says that wafers have such a consistency. This is quoted by the Magen Avraham 186:40 and Mishna Brurah 186:38.  
* '''Semi-Thick Liquid Batter vs Extremely Thin Batter''': Breads made from a very thin batter are [[mezonot]], however, if one eats it as a meal (Koveh Seduah) the bracha becomes [[HaMotzei]] (Shulchan Aruch 168:8). Yet, if the batter is extremely thin, thinner than that of blintzes (a semi-thick liquid), when poured out it spreads out quickly and forms a very flimsy dough, then the Bach 168:8 writes that the bracha is [[mezonot]] even if one eats it as a meal. For example, he says that wafers have such a consistency. This is quoted by the Magen Avraham 168:40 and Mishna Brurah 168:38.  
* '''Conclusion''': If wraps and tortillas are made with a thick dough it seems that the bracha should be [[Hamotzei]] even if it has a thin shape. [http://www.ykr.org.il/modules/Ask/answer/8705 An article on ykr.org.il] quotes Or Torah (Iss. 552, 5773 Tamuz 118:17) as saying that wheat tortilla is [[Hamotzei]]. Similarly, [http://www.kipa.co.il/ask/show/232461-%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%94-%D7%A2%D7%9C-%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%94 Kipa.co.il] writes that the bracha on wraps is [[Hamotzei]] (repeated [http://www.kipa.co.il/ask/show/256620-%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%94 here] as well). The same can be found on [http://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%90%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%94%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%94/%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA.aspx toraland.org.il]. The [http://oukosher.org/guide-to-blessings/ OU Guide to Brachos] writes that wraps are [[Hamotzei]] when eaten together with the filling but otherwise are [[mezonot]]. See there for the reasoning. </ref>
* '''Conclusion''': If wraps and tortillas are made with a thick dough it seems that the bracha should be [[Hamotzei]] even if it has a thin shape. [http://www.ykr.org.il/modules/Ask/answer/8705 An article on ykr.org.il] quotes Or Torah (Iss. 552, 5773 Tamuz 118:17) as saying that wheat tortilla is [[Hamotzei]]. Similarly, [http://www.kipa.co.il/ask/show/232461-%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%94-%D7%A2%D7%9C-%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%94 Kipa.co.il] writes that the bracha on wraps is [[Hamotzei]] (repeated [http://www.kipa.co.il/ask/show/256620-%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%94 here] as well). The same can be found on [http://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%A9%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%AA-%D7%95%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%91%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%90%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%94%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%94/%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%AA/%D7%98%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%98%D7%99%D7%95%D7%AA.aspx toraland.org.il]. The [http://oukosher.org/guide-to-blessings/ OU Guide to Brachos] writes that wraps are [[Hamotzei]] when eaten together with the filling but otherwise are [[mezonot]]. See there for the reasoning. </ref>


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