Motzei Matzah: Difference between revisions
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# Matzah soaked in water is fit to exempt one's obligation after the fact. Some say that if the matzah is soaked any liquid other than water it is invalid for matzah mitzvah, while others disagree.<ref>Magen Avraham 461:7 writes that if the matzah was soaked in any juice or tasty liquid it would invalidate the matzah since it would give it a taste and the matzah needs to taste like matzah (Brachot 38b). However, Rav Chaim Soloveitchik in his notes on Pesachim 41a disagreed. He held that if the matzah had a taste it is still considered matzah mitzvah as long as it wasn't cooked. Nonetheless, in order to have the taste of the matzah linger in one's mouth at the end of the night one would need to eat a bit of non-soaked matzah afterwards.</ref> | # Matzah soaked in water is fit to exempt one's obligation after the fact. Some say that if the matzah is soaked any liquid other than water it is invalid for matzah mitzvah, while others disagree.<ref>Magen Avraham 461:7 writes that if the matzah was soaked in any juice or tasty liquid it would invalidate the matzah since it would give it a taste and the matzah needs to taste like matzah (Brachot 38b). However, Rav Chaim Soloveitchik in his notes on Pesachim 41a disagreed. He held that if the matzah had a taste it is still considered matzah mitzvah as long as it wasn't cooked. Nonetheless, in order to have the taste of the matzah linger in one's mouth at the end of the night one would need to eat a bit of non-soaked matzah afterwards.</ref> | ||
#Cooked matzah doesn't fulfill the mitzvah.<ref>Rabbi Yosi and Rabbi Meir in Pesachim 41a and Brachot 38b argue whether one fulfills the mitzvah with cooked matzah. Rabbi Yosi holds one does not. Why not? | #Cooked matzah doesn't fulfill the mitzvah.<ref>Rabbi Yosi and Rabbi Meir in Pesachim 41a and Brachot 38b argue whether one fulfills the mitzvah with cooked matzah. Rabbi Yosi holds one does not. Why not? | ||
* Taste of Matzah: Gemara Brachot 38b implies that the reason is because cooked matzah doesn't taste like standard matzah and the mitzvah of matzah needs a taste of standard matzah. This is the understanding of the Rashba Brachot 38b s.v. lo and Ritva Brachot 38b s.v. ad kan. Raah Brachot 38b s.v. vmeyhu agrees that Rabbi Yosi requires taste of matzah but thinks that Rabbi Meir does not require taste of matzah. (This is the understanding of the fnt. to Ritva n. 241 and not the fnt. to Raah n. 155 who equates the Raah with the Rashba and Ritva.) | * Taste of Matzah: Gemara Brachot 38b implies that the reason is because cooked matzah doesn't taste like standard matzah and the mitzvah of matzah needs a taste of standard matzah. This is the understanding of the Rashba Brachot 38b s.v. lo and Ritva Brachot 38b s.v. ad kan. Raah Brachot 38b s.v. vmeyhu agrees that Rabbi Yosi requires taste of matzah but thinks that Rabbi Meir does not require taste of matzah. (This is the understanding of the fnt. to Ritva n. 241 and not the fnt. to Raah n. 155 who equates the Raah with the Rashba and Ritva.) Peni Yehoshua 38b s.v. vani adopts the approach of the Raah (without having seen the Raah). | ||
**Some ask that if matzah needs taste why does the Gemara Pesachim 115b hold that if someone swallows matzah they fulfill their obligation unlike maror. The | **Some ask that if matzah needs taste why does the Gemara Pesachim 115b hold that if someone swallows matzah they fulfill their obligation unlike maror. The Magen Avraham 475:11 answers that the type of matzah itself needs taste, but since it is possible to taste, even one did swallow it in a way that one didn't taste it one still fulfills one's obligation. Rabbenu Mano'ach Chametz Umatzah 6:2, however, says that one needs to be able to taste the matzah while swallowing it. Since one could have chewed it and didn't one still fulfills the mitzvah. Swallowing it encapsulated in a leaf doesn't fulfill the mitzvah since it wasn't possible to taste it. Meiri Brachot 38b s.v. linyan answers the question and is unclear whether he is saying like the Magen Avraham or Rabbenu Mano'ach. Meiri Pesachim 115b s.v. mi quotes some who say that in fact that one doesn't fulfill one's obligation when swallowing matzah since one needs to taste the matzah based on the Gemara Pesachim 115a. | ||
* Matzah Ashira: However, the Tosfot Pesachim 41a s.v. aval holds that the gemara means that cooked matzah is like matzah ashira and doesn't fulfill the mitzvah of matzah. Tosfot Harosh Brachot 38b s.v. ad | * Matzah Ashira: However, the Tosfot Pesachim 41a s.v. aval holds that the gemara means that cooked matzah is like matzah ashira and doesn't fulfill the mitzvah of matzah. Tosfot Harosh Brachot 38b s.v. ad and Rabbenu Yonah (Brachot 27a s.v. mishum) agree. | ||
* Not Torat Pat: A third interpretation of the gemara is whether cooking makes the matzah not be considered bread as it invalidates it's status of bread. Indeed some say that as a result of Rabbi Yosi, cooked matzah is mezonot. This is the opinion of the Maharam Chalavah Pesachim 41a s.v. | * Not Torat Pat: A third interpretation of the gemara is whether cooking makes the matzah not be considered bread as it invalidates it's status of bread. Indeed some say that as a result of Rabbi Yosi, cooked matzah is mezonot. This is the opinion of the Maharam Chalavah Pesachim 41a s.v. yotzin, Rash Challah 1:5, Bahag (cited by Tosfot Harosh Brachot 38b), and Shiltot (Tzav 77, cited by fnt. to Tosfot Harosh). | ||
* In summary, does matzah need "the taste of matzah"? The following rishonim and achronim require that matzah taste like matzah: Rashba Brachot 38b s.v. lo, Raah Brachot 38b s.v. vmeyhu, Ritva Brachot 38b s.v. ad kan, Maharam Chalavah Pesachim 41a s.v. yotzin, Meiri Brachot 38b s.v. linyan, Peni Yehoshua 38b s.v. vani, and Magen Avraham 475:11. The following rishonim don't require that matzah taste like matzah: Rabbenu Yonah (Brachot 27a s.v. mishum) writes explicitly that there's no need to have the taste of matzah. It would also seem that this is the approach of the Tosfot Harosh (Brachot 38b s.v. ad) and Tosfot Pesachim 41a s.v. aval. Meiri Pesachim 115b s.v. mi quotes some who say this but rejects them.</ref> | |||
==How to eat it== | ==How to eat it== | ||
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# Someone who is celiac and can't eat wheat matzah, may eat gluten free oat matzah to fulfill his obligation.<ref> | # Someone who is celiac and can't eat wheat matzah, may eat gluten free oat matzah to fulfill his obligation.<ref> | ||
* One concern with oat matzah is that the Rama 453:1 writes that the minhag is to use wheat specifically. The Chok Yakov explains that the reason for the minhag is because matzah made from wheat is generally the one most people prefer. He says that if there's no wheat available one could use another one of the four grains that he likes. Eshel Avraham Mbuchach 453:1 and Mishna Brurah 453:2 agree. However, the Maharsham in Daat Torah 453:1 raised another explanation for the minhag. Magen Avraham 453:5 notes that barley causes dough to rise more quickly than wheat. Based on the Magen Avraham, the Maharsham reasons that it is preferable to use wheat matzah's so that there is no concern for chametz. He concludes that after the fact it is not a concern. Minchat Yitzchak 9:49 is concerned for the issue of the Maharsham and does not want to allow oat matzah for that reason that perhaps it wasn't made properly and is chametz. He does not think that oat matzah is a solution for a celiac, though he does not pose another one. Rav Elyashiv (quoted in Dirshu 453:2) held that it is possible for someone who would get sick from eating wheat matzah to eat oat matzah's. | * One concern with oat matzah is that the Rama 453:1 writes that the minhag is to use wheat specifically. The Chok Yakov explains that the reason for the minhag is because matzah made from wheat is generally the one most people prefer. He says that if there's no wheat available one could use another one of the four grains that he likes. Eshel Avraham Mbuchach 453:1 and Mishna Brurah 453:2 agree. However, the Maharsham in Daat Torah 453:1 raised another explanation for the minhag. Magen Avraham 453:5 notes that barley causes dough to rise more quickly than wheat. Based on the Magen Avraham, the Maharsham reasons that it is preferable to use wheat matzah's so that there is no concern for chametz. He concludes that after the fact it is not a concern. Minchat Yitzchak 9:49 is concerned for the issue of the Maharsham and does not want to allow oat matzah for that reason that perhaps it wasn't made properly and is chametz. He does not think that oat matzah is a solution for a celiac, though he does not pose another one. Rav Elyashiv (quoted in Dirshu 453:2) held that it is possible for someone who would get sick from eating wheat matzah to eat oat matzah's. | ||
* Are oats one of the five grains? Rashi Pesachim 35a s.v. shibolet shual holds that oats are one of the five grains. Dr. Felix questioned this based on science. Others answered the questions and vehemently rejected anyone who questioned oats as being one of the five grains. This is the position of Rav Solovetichik in Mpeninei Harav p. 69, Rav Moshe Feinstein, Rav Elyashiv (quoted by Rabbi Yosef Efrati in Mesorah v. 10 p. 66 and [https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=52251&st=&pgnum=17 Halichot Sadeh v. 57 p. 15]), Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Halichot Shlomo Pesach | * Are oats one of the five grains? Rashi Pesachim 35a s.v. shibolet shual holds that oats are one of the five grains. Dr. Felix questioned this based on science. Others answered the questions and vehemently rejected anyone who questioned oats as being one of the five grains. This is the position of Rav Solovetichik in Mpeninei Harav p. 69, Rav Moshe Feinstein, Rav Elyashiv (quoted by Rabbi Yosef Efrati in Mesorah v. 10 p. 66 and [https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=52251&st=&pgnum=17 Halichot Sadeh v. 57 p. 15]), Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (Halichot Shlomo Pesach p. 170 fnt. 310), Steipler, and Chazon Ish ([https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=52251&st=&pgnum=16 Rabbi Efrati p. 14]). | ||
* In previous years oat matzah was made by first baking the kernels of oats to make them edible. However, in the process they were roasted so that they couldn't ferment later to become chametz. Is it possible to make matzah with grain that can't become chametz? The Ramban Milchamot 10a argues that one doesn't fulfill the mitzvah of matzah with matzah that was made with dough that couldn't become chametz. Matzah needs to be guarded from becoming chametz but if it can't become chametz it can't fit the requirement of matzah that needs to be guarded. The Rambam Chametz Umatzah 6:5 seems to disagree. He allows matzah made from fruit juices besides wine, oil, honey, and milk, even though fruit juice doesn't allow the dough to rise. Maggid Mishna quotes an opinion that corresponds with the Ramban who argues that fruit juice matzah isn't matzah since it would never become chametz. The Lechem Mishna 6:5 explains that the Rambam presumably held that the type of grains that are necessary for matzah need to be the type that could become chametz, but as long as the type of grains are possible to become chametz even if in this dough it couldn't become chametz it is acceptable as matzah. Pri Chadash 462:1 suggests for the Rambam as well but thinks that the Ramban is correct. Chaye Adam (Nishmat Adam 119:15) holds like the Rambam. Tzemach Tzedek 1:57:2 adopts a similar approach though he does not reach the same conclusion as the Chaye Adam. The Magen Avraham 454:1 seems to follow the Rambam as Rabbi Akiva Eiger there notes is in disagreement with the Ramban, while in Magen Avraham 471:5 he seems to adopt the Ramban approach. Dagul Mirvava highlights the tension between the two conflicting Magen Avraham's. Chatom Sofer 471:5 answers that the Magen Avraham requires the type of flour and type of liquid be able to create chametz but the actual mixture doesn't need to become chametz. Pri Megadim MZ 462:2 seems to be strict but cites both Magen Avraham's. Shevet Halevi 9:117 is lenient for the oat matzah which were made with roasted oats. He adds that they should listen to the bracha of al achilat matzah from someone else. Today the oats matzah's are made differently.</ref> | * In previous years oat matzah was made by first baking the kernels of oats to make them edible. However, in the process they were roasted so that they couldn't ferment later to become chametz. Is it possible to make matzah with grain that can't become chametz? The Ramban Milchamot 10a argues that one doesn't fulfill the mitzvah of matzah with matzah that was made with dough that couldn't become chametz. Matzah needs to be guarded from becoming chametz but if it can't become chametz it can't fit the requirement of matzah that needs to be guarded. The Rambam Chametz Umatzah 6:5 seems to disagree. He allows matzah made from fruit juices besides wine, oil, honey, and milk, even though fruit juice doesn't allow the dough to rise. Maggid Mishna quotes an opinion that corresponds with the Ramban who argues that fruit juice matzah isn't matzah since it would never become chametz. The Lechem Mishna 6:5 explains that the Rambam presumably held that the type of grains that are necessary for matzah need to be the type that could become chametz, but as long as the type of grains are possible to become chametz even if in this dough it couldn't become chametz it is acceptable as matzah. Pri Chadash 462:1 suggests for the Rambam as well but thinks that the Ramban is correct. Chaye Adam (Nishmat Adam 119:15) holds like the Rambam. Tzemach Tzedek 1:57:2 adopts a similar approach though he does not reach the same conclusion as the Chaye Adam. The Magen Avraham 454:1 seems to follow the Rambam as Rabbi Akiva Eiger there notes is in disagreement with the Ramban, while in Magen Avraham 471:5 he seems to adopt the Ramban approach. Dagul Mirvava highlights the tension between the two conflicting Magen Avraham's. Chatom Sofer 471:5 answers that the Magen Avraham requires the type of flour and type of liquid be able to create chametz but the actual mixture doesn't need to become chametz. Pri Megadim MZ 462:2 seems to be strict but cites both Magen Avraham's. Shevet Halevi 9:117 is lenient for the oat matzah which were made with roasted oats. He adds that they should listen to the bracha of al achilat matzah from someone else. Today the oats matzah's are made differently.</ref> | ||
# For more details see [https://www.crcweb.org/kosher_articles/Celiac%20-%20A%20Guide%20to%20Halachic%20Observance%20(JoHaCS%202010).pdf Rav Dovid Cohen's Guide to Halacha for Celiacs]. | # For more details see [https://www.crcweb.org/kosher_articles/Celiac%20-%20A%20Guide%20to%20Halachic%20Observance%20(JoHaCS%202010).pdf Rav Dovid Cohen's Guide to Halacha for Celiacs]. | ||
