Milk and Meat in the Kitchen: Difference between revisions
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* The Sefer Hatrumah (61) holds that it is true only if the fish was cooked in the meat utensil but not roasted. The Rosh Chullin 8:30 agrees. | * The Sefer Hatrumah (61) holds that it is true only if the fish was cooked in the meat utensil but not roasted. The Rosh Chullin 8:30 agrees. | ||
* Rashi (111b s.v. nat) writes that it is true whether the fish was cooked in the meat pot or was roasted on meat utensil. </ref> | * Rashi (111b s.v. nat) writes that it is true whether the fish was cooked in the meat pot or was roasted on meat utensil. </ref> | ||
# Parve food cooked in a dairy pot is considered dairy equipment and according to Ashkenazim it shouldn't be eaten together with meat but after the fact if it was cooked with meat it would be permitted to be eaten. According to Sephardim it is permitted even initially to eat the parve food made with dairy equipment with meat.<ref>Shulchan Aruch and Rama | # Parve food cooked in a dairy pot is considered dairy equipment and according to Ashkenazim it shouldn't be eaten together with meat but after the fact if it was cooked with meat it would be permitted to be eaten. According to Sephardim it is permitted even initially to eat the parve food made with dairy equipment with meat.<ref>Shulchan Aruch and Rama Y.D. 95:1 | ||
* A few rishonim (Smak, Hagahot Maimoniyot, and Rabbenu Yerucham cited by Bet Yosef 95:1) write that nat bar nat is only permitted to be cooked with milk after the parve food was cooked in the meat pot and this is also the consensus of the majority of the achronim. The achronim debate why nat bar nat is only permitted after the fact. (See next note for discussion of those who hold it is totally permitted even initially.) | |||
* Some ([https://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=44929&st=&pgnum=154 Minchat Cohen 1:12 s.v. vheneh dino] as understood by Pri Megadim M"Z 95:4) say that it is like ''ein mevatlin isur lechatchila'' because nat bar nat is similar to nullification. Others (Pri Chadash 95:1) hold it is a unique prohibition in this context. This argue whether after the fact if one intentionally created nat bar nat whether it would be forbidden. | |||
* Why is nat bar nat d'isura, secondary taste of something forbidden, forbidden? Rashba (responsa 1:516) and Ran Chullin 41a hold that it is forbidden because nat bar nat leaves over only a weak taste of the original food (Heb. טעם קלוש; trans. ''taam kalush'') and for forbidden foods any remnant of the original taste is forbidden. For permitted tastes we are lenient since that weak taste in the first food became permitted, as though it is not there, and it is impossible to become forbidden even when it is later cooked with milk. They compare it to the leniencies we have for kashering spits for kodshim which began as something permitted as opposed to other prohibitions (Avoda Zara 76a). On the other hand, Smak (Hagahot Smak 213 Bitul n. 6, cited by Bet Yosef 94:5) forbids nat bar nat of something forbidden because we say that the forbidden taste makes the entire first food forbidden and is measured as though it is completely forbidden (Heb. תחיכה נעשה נבילה; trans. ''chaticha naaseh nevelah''). For permitted things there is no concept that the food that was infused with a permitted taste is considered as though it is completely filled with that taste. This approach seems to think of nat bar nat as as way of permitting using nullification. | |||
* Nat bar nat with ''isur mashahu'': Ritva Chullin 112a s.v. garir writes that nat bar nat does not even leave a minute amount of the original food and as such is permitted. See also Magen Avraham 447:31. Gra YD 108:9 uses this to explain why nat bar nat is permitted after cooked and does not need to be avoided at that point. This seems to work best with the Rashba and Ran's approach above, but according to the Smak there is always a minute amount of the original taste that remains in the secondary taste although it is nullified.</ref> Some even permit cooking the parve food in the meat pot to eat it with dairy.<ref>Rav Ovadia Yosef in Yabia Omer YD 9:4 and Rav Shlomo Amar in Shema Shlomo 1:2, 2:4-5. Or Hahalacha (by R' Makis 95:1) is lenient and cites Halichot Olam (Korach n. 11) and Tefila Lmoshe 3:12. However, Horah Brurah 95:1 holds that it is only permitted after the fact. He cites Zivchei Tzedek 95:2 Kaf Hachaim 95:1, Ben Ish Chai Korach 13, Rav Ben Tzion Abba Shaul, and Shemesh Umagen 2:42 who hold that nat bar nat is only after the fact.</ref> | |||
# If the meat pot wasn't used within 24 hours for meat, then if something parve cooks in it, the parve food can be eaten together with dairy even initially. However, one shouldn't use a meat pot even if it hasn't been used within 24 hours to cook parve food that one intends to eat with dairy. The same is true of dairy and meat vice versa.<ref>Rama 95:2 writes that if the pot was eino ben yomo there's no issue of nat bar nat. Badei Hashulchan 95:33 and Chachmat Adam 48:2 clarify that this means after the fact that the parve food was cooked in a meat pot it is considered parve and can be eaten with cheese even initially. However, one shouldn't cook the parve food in an eino ben yomo meat pot if one plans to eat that food with dairy. Yet, the Gra argues that it is permitted even initially. Laws of Kashrut p. 162 fnt. 44 cites Rav Elyashiv has holding like the Chachmat Adam unlike the Gra. Rav Mordechai Willig in Chevrusa Oct. 1990 p. 5 agrees. </ref> According to Sephardim all cases of cooking parve food in a meat pot in order to eat it together with dairy are permitted.<ref>Shulchan Aruch YD 95:1</ref> | # If the meat pot wasn't used within 24 hours for meat, then if something parve cooks in it, the parve food can be eaten together with dairy even initially. However, one shouldn't use a meat pot even if it hasn't been used within 24 hours to cook parve food that one intends to eat with dairy. The same is true of dairy and meat vice versa.<ref>Rama 95:2 writes that if the pot was eino ben yomo there's no issue of nat bar nat. Badei Hashulchan 95:33 and Chachmat Adam 48:2 clarify that this means after the fact that the parve food was cooked in a meat pot it is considered parve and can be eaten with cheese even initially. However, one shouldn't cook the parve food in an eino ben yomo meat pot if one plans to eat that food with dairy. Yet, the Gra argues that it is permitted even initially. Laws of Kashrut p. 162 fnt. 44 cites Rav Elyashiv has holding like the Chachmat Adam unlike the Gra. Rav Mordechai Willig in Chevrusa Oct. 1990 p. 5 agrees. </ref> According to Sephardim all cases of cooking parve food in a meat pot in order to eat it together with dairy are permitted.<ref>Shulchan Aruch YD 95:1</ref> | ||
# Parve food cooked in a meat pot can be eaten with dairy utensils but the parve food shouldn't be poured directly from the meat pot onto a dairy utensil. The same is true of the opposite case.<ref>Rama 95:2. The Shach 95:5 explains that one shouldn't pour directly from the meat pot onto the dairy utensil as the Rama writes however after the fact it is permitted since the infusions of nat bar nat taste are consecutive. Badei Hashulchan 95:27 agrees that we should be strict about pouring. He explains that the reason that we're lenient about using utensils of the other type for nat bar nat is because the entire concern of meat and milk here is rabbinic since there's no combination of actual meat or milk but only its tastes.</ref> | # Parve food cooked in a meat pot can be eaten with dairy utensils but the parve food shouldn't be poured directly from the meat pot onto a dairy utensil. The same is true of the opposite case.<ref>Rama 95:2. The Shach 95:5 explains that one shouldn't pour directly from the meat pot onto the dairy utensil as the Rama writes however after the fact it is permitted since the infusions of nat bar nat taste are consecutive. Badei Hashulchan 95:27 agrees that we should be strict about pouring. He explains that the reason that we're lenient about using utensils of the other type for nat bar nat is because the entire concern of meat and milk here is rabbinic since there's no combination of actual meat or milk but only its tastes.</ref> | ||
