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Milk and Meat in the Kitchen: Difference between revisions
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# Some say that we can't assume a pot cover that we're unsure if it was used within 24 hours that is considered eino ben yomo.<ref>Darkei Teshuva 93:25 citing the Yavetz</ref> | # Some say that we can't assume a pot cover that we're unsure if it was used within 24 hours that is considered eino ben yomo.<ref>Darkei Teshuva 93:25 citing the Yavetz</ref> | ||
====Hot Cover on Cold Pot==== | ====Hot Cover on Cold Pot==== | ||
# If one accidentally placed a hot cover on a cold pot, some say that the food, the pot and the cover are all still kosher.<ref>Rama 93:1</ref> Other poskim hold that the pot needs to be koshered.<ref>Shach 93:6, Pri Chadash 93:9, Aruch Hashulchan 93:18. The Isur Vheter 31:18 holds that the moisture on the hot lid is considered like a kli sheni and not iruy since it is a drop and not a stream, while the Hagahot Shaarei Dura 56:1 disagrees and considers that drop to cause absorptions to forbid the pot and lid. Darkei Moshe 93:2 cites this dispute and in Rama 93:1 he rules like the Isur Veheter. Shach 93:6 holds like the Hagahot Shaarei Dura arguing that the lid is itself a kli rishon so the drop retains its status of iruy. Pri Chadash partially agrees with the Shach but only seems to forbid the pot and not the lid. Badei Hashulchan 93:1 s.v. vim hakisuy explains that the Pri Chadash holds that a drop doesn't have the ability to absorb taste and then transfer it. This is in line with the Chavot Daat 92:20 and 105:13 unlike the Yad Yehuda 92 (cited by Badei Hashulchan 92:8 s.v. ashtey kederot). Chavot Daat thinks that a small amount of moisture can absorb taste but not impart it because liquids also absorb tastes like foods and as such a food can't impart flavor to something else without a liquid or fat ( | # If one accidentally placed a hot cover on a cold pot, some say that the food, the pot and the cover are all still kosher.<ref>Rama 93:1</ref> Other poskim hold that the pot needs to be koshered.<ref>Shach 93:6, Pri Chadash 93:9, Aruch Hashulchan 93:18. The Isur Vheter 31:18 holds that the moisture on the hot lid is considered like a kli sheni and not iruy since it is a drop and not a stream, while the Hagahot Shaarei Dura 56:1 disagrees and considers that drop to cause absorptions to forbid the pot and lid. Darkei Moshe 93:2 cites this dispute and in Rama 93:1 he rules like the Isur Veheter. Shach 93:6 holds like the Hagahot Shaarei Dura arguing that the lid is itself a kli rishon so the drop retains its status of iruy. Pri Chadash partially agrees with the Shach but only seems to forbid the pot and not the lid. Badei Hashulchan 93:1 s.v. vim hakisuy explains that the Pri Chadash holds that a drop doesn't have the ability to absorb taste and then transfer it. This is in line with the Chavot Daat 92:20 and 105:13 unlike the Yad Yehuda 92 (cited by Badei Hashulchan 92:8 s.v. ashtey kederot). Chavot Daat thinks that a small amount of moisture can absorb taste but not impart it because liquids also absorb tastes like foods and as such a food can't impart flavor to something else without a liquid or fat (Shulchan Aruch YD 105:7).</ref> Poskim are strict unless there is financial loss involved.<ref>Chachmat Adam 46:5, Badei Hashulchan 93:31, Laws of Kashrut p. 270</ref> | ||
# The above only applies when the hot lid was wet or moist, but if it was totally dry then everything is kosher.<ref>Aruch Hashulchan 93:18, Chachmat Adam 46:5</ref> Without any more information we have to assume that a hot lid that was on a cooking pot and removed is still moist.<Ref>Shach 93:6, Chachmat Adam 46:5, Badei Hashulchan 93:31</ref> | # The above only applies when the hot lid was wet or moist, but if it was totally dry then everything is kosher.<ref>Aruch Hashulchan 93:18, Chachmat Adam 46:5</ref> Without any more information we have to assume that a hot lid that was on a cooking pot and removed is still moist.<Ref>Shach 93:6, Chachmat Adam 46:5, Badei Hashulchan 93:31</ref> | ||
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# According to Ashkenazim, some say that it is forbidden to use a dishwasher for meat and milk even one after the other and even if one uses different racks. <Ref>Badei Hashulchan 95:81. | # According to Ashkenazim, some say that it is forbidden to use a dishwasher for meat and milk even one after the other and even if one uses different racks. <Ref>Badei Hashulchan 95:81. | ||
* Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe OC 1:104, OC 3:58, YD 1:28-29, and YD 3:10-11) is lenient to use a dishwasher for meat and milk dishes consecutively with different racks. His reasoning is that the only concern of taste from the dirty dishes is Nat Bar Nat and therefore doesn't render the dishwasher meat or milk. He explains that it is permitted even initially and isn't considered like creating Nat Bar Nat. Also, he says that there is probably sixty times the beeyn in the actual pieces of leftovers on the plate. Yet, he says that a person should use different racks for meat and milk out of a concern that a piece of meat or milk got stuck onto the rack and taste directly got absorbed into the racks.</ref> Sephardim only allow using one dishwasher for meat and milk if they are used in different shifts and the dishes are first rinsed to remove the large pieces.<ref>Yalkut Yosef (Otzar Dinim L'isha p. 618), Yalkut Yosef (Isur Vheter v. 3 p. 485) only allows consecutive cycles. Yabia Omer YD 10:4 allows meat and milk dishes together. Rav Ovadia himself in the new edition of Yabia Omer 10:4 fnt. 6 added that it is better not to follow his teshuva to do it at the same time. Rabbi Assayag and Rabbi Wiesenfeld in Kashrut in the Kitchen Q&A p. 91 rule like Yalkut Yosef. | * Rav Moshe Feinstein (Igrot Moshe OC 1:104, OC 3:58, YD 1:28-29, and YD 3:10-11) is lenient to use a dishwasher for meat and milk dishes consecutively with different racks. His reasoning is that the only concern of taste from the dirty dishes is Nat Bar Nat and therefore doesn't render the dishwasher meat or milk. He explains that it is permitted even initially and isn't considered like creating Nat Bar Nat. Also, he says that there is probably sixty times the beeyn in the actual pieces of leftovers on the plate. Yet, he says that a person should use different racks for meat and milk out of a concern that a piece of meat or milk got stuck onto the rack and taste directly got absorbed into the racks.</ref> Sephardim only allow using one dishwasher for meat and milk if they are used in different shifts and the dishes are first rinsed to remove the large pieces.<ref>Yalkut Yosef (Otzar Dinim L'isha p. 618), Yalkut Yosef (Isur Vheter v. 3 p. 485) only allows consecutive cycles. Yabia Omer YD 10:4 allows meat and milk dishes together. Rav Ovadia himself in the new edition of Yabia Omer 10:4 fnt. 6 added that it is better not to follow his teshuva to do it at the same time. Rabbi Assayag and Rabbi Wiesenfeld in Kashrut in the Kitchen Q&A p. 91 rule like Yalkut Yosef. | ||
* Shaarei Shalom on Piskei Ben Ish Chai Basar Bchalav p. 143-5 is strict for all dishwashers even one after another. If the first cycle is with soap he is concerned for the fact that noten taam lifgam is only after the fact. He quotes Tzemech Tzedek 61, Minchat Yakov 57:26, and Shulchan Gavoha 95:7 who only allow the case of using ashes to clean dishes ( | * Shaarei Shalom on Piskei Ben Ish Chai Basar Bchalav p. 143-5 is strict for all dishwashers even one after another. If the first cycle is with soap he is concerned for the fact that noten taam lifgam is only after the fact. He quotes Tzemech Tzedek 61, Minchat Yakov 57:26, and Shulchan Gavoha 95:7 who only allow the case of using ashes to clean dishes (Shulchan Aruch 95:4) after the fact. Also, if the first cycle is without soap there is an issue because if the dishes are dirty everything becomes forbidden and if they're clean we don't rely on Shulchan Aruch 95:3 initially as Shach points out. | ||
* Horah Brurah 95:46 discusses whether the kula of 95:4 is permitted initially but concludes like Rav Ovadia that it is permitted even initially. | * Horah Brurah 95:46 discusses whether the kula of 95:4 is permitted initially but concludes like Rav Ovadia that it is permitted even initially. | ||
Magen Ba’adi 1:19 of Rabbi Matloud Abadie writes the exact same argument as Rav Ovadia. Or Letzion 3:10:11 in footnote implies the same position. | Magen Ba’adi 1:19 of Rabbi Matloud Abadie writes the exact same argument as Rav Ovadia. Or Letzion 3:10:11 in footnote implies the same position. | ||
