Milk and Meat in the Kitchen: Difference between revisions

For halachic questions of Kashrut a person should consult a rabbi because the laws of Kashrut involve many complexities.

# Our Sages teach us that the language of "לא תבשל"-"You shall not cook" implies that the ''Biblical'' prohibitions only apply if the meat and milk are cooked together.<ref>Chullin 108a, Shulchan Aruch YD 87:1. </ref>  

# There is discussion whether frying or roasting meat and milk together is included in the biblical prohibition.<ref>Pri Chadash 87:2 (p. 20) says that frying is included in cooking. However, the Chavot Daat (biurim 87:1) points out that many rishonim hold frying isn't cooking. Included in those Rishonim is Rashi (Sanhedrin 4a s.v. derech bishul) who explicitly states that frying in fat isn't considered the biblical prohibition of cooking meat and milk.  

===Feeding An Animal Meat and Milk===

==Cold Meat and Dairy Touching==

* However, Ritva Avoda Zara 76a s.v. vyesh and Ohel Moed Pesach 3:3 argue with the Rashba. The Ritva has another reading of Rava and the Ohel Moed is bothered how cooking can serve as koshering if it didn’t kosher the rim of the pot. (The Gra 94:11 also argues that it could be that we reject the opinion of Rava altogether. See however many rishonim who quote Rava as being accepted: Rashba Torat Habayit 38a, Ritva Avoda Zara 76a s.v. vyesh citing Raah, Maharam Chalavah Pesachim 30b s.v. vhilchata, Mordechai Pesachim n. 563, Rosh Chullin 7:31, Or Zaruah Basar Bchalav 1:467, and Bartenura Vayikra 6:21.)

* Bet Yosef 93 argues that we don’t follow the Rashba and demonstrates it from several places where we don’t assume that cooking is considered a mini-koshering. The Shach in Nekudat Hakesef 93:1 argues that the Rashba was talking about a complete koshering, that is, with cooking food up to the top of the pot and at a complete boil. He also thinks that this is completely accepted by the poskim to allow this as hagalah and hagalah is effective for a permitted absorption for everything. Either way, the idea of a mini-koshering because of cooking food isn’t accepted. This is also the conclusion of the Hagahot Shaarei Dura 85:10.</ref>

==Food that was on the Table==

==Meat and Dairy Equipment (Nat Bar Nat)==

# Parve food cooked in a meat pot is considered meat-equipment and according to Ashkenazim it shouldn't be eaten together with dairy but after the fact if it was cooked with dairy it would be permitted to be eaten. According to Sephardim it is permitted even initially to eat the parve food made with meat equipment with dairy.<ref>Shulchan Aruch and Rama YD 95:1. Gemara Chullin 111b cites a dispute between Rav and Shmuel whether a fish cooked in a meat pot can be eaten with dairy. The dispute depends on whether a taste imparted from a food into a utensil and back into a food is considered a significant taste. The conclusion of the gemara is that it is permitted.  

* The Rivan (cited by Tosfot s.v. hilchata) holds that it is true only if the fish was placed on a hot plate but not if it was roasted or cooked on a meat utensil.  

* The Sefer Hatrumah (61) holds that it is true only if the fish was cooked in the meat utensil but not roasted. The Rosh Chullin 8:30 agrees.  

* Rashi (111b s.v. nat) writes that it is true whether the fish was cooked in the meat pot or was roasted on meat utensil. </ref>

# Parve food cooked in a meat pot can be eaten with dairy utensils but the parve food shouldn't be poured directly from the meat pot onto a dairy utensil. The same is true of the opposite case.<ref>Rama 95:2. The Shach 95:5 explains that one shouldn't pour directly from the meat pot onto the dairy utensil as the Rama writes however after the fact it is permitted since the infusions of nat bar nat taste are consecutive. Badei Hashulchan 95:27 agrees that we should be strict about pouring. He explains that the reason that we're lenient about using utensils of the other type for nat bar nat is because the entire concern of meat and milk here is rabbinic since there's no combination of actual meat or milk but only its tastes.</ref>

# If a dairy spoon was used to mix a meat pot with meat in it, if there isn't sixty in the pot relative to the amount of the spoon that was inserted into the food, the spoon, the food, and the pot are rendered non-kosher. If there is sixty in the pot the food and pot are kosher but the spoon is rendered non-kosher.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 94:3</ref> Alternatively, if the spoon wasn't used for dairy within 24 hours the food and pot are kosher but the spoon is rendered non-kosher.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 94:4</ref>

# If a dairy spoon was used to mix a parve soup or food with liquids in a meat pot, according to Ashkenazim the food and the pot are rendered non-kosher. If there is sixty times the spoon in the soup the food and pot are kosher and the dairy spoon is rendered non-kosher. If the dairy spoon wasn't used within 24 hours the food and pot are kosher and the spoon is rendered non-kosher. According to Sephardim the food, pot, and spoon are kosher.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 95:3</ref>

# If a dairy spoon was used to mix rice, noodles, or vegetables in a pot on the stove where there aren't liquids between the foods, some poskim hold that for Ashkenazim the food, the spoon, and the pot are rendered non-kosher. Others hold that only the food is non-kosher, while still others hold that everything remains kosher.<ref>Badei Hashulchan Biurim on 95:3 s.v. afilu cites the Chavot Daat 94:26 who writes that for rice or noodles where the water is poured out the taste of the dairy from the spoon goes directly into the food and the taste from the meat goes directly into the food rendering it nat bar nat of meat and milk together which is non-kosher. Therefore, everything else is rendered non-kosher. The Pri Megadim M"Z 94:7 agrees regarding the food but not for the pots since the absorbed taste of the meat and the milk in the food doesn't spread to the pot without a liquid. Badei Hashulchan comments that we follow the Pri Megadim on this point since we hold that meat and milk aren't considered forbidden in it of itself but an absorbed taste (Taz 105 unlike Shach 105:17). The Yad Yehuda argues further that the food isn't rendered non-kosher since only the pieces that are in direct contact with the pot absorb the meat taste and only the rice in direct contact with the spoon absorb the milk taste and since absorbed taste doesn't transfer without a liquid everything is permitted. Badei Hashulchan leaves this discussion unresolved.</ref> Sephardim hold like that everything remains kosher.<ref>According to Shulchan Aruch 95:3 who follows the Ramban it is allows considered nat bar nat of kosher tastes since the milk taste from the spoon that goes into the food can't forbid the meat taste from the pot that came into the food without first becoming a third derivative taste which is permitted. Rama follows the Sefer Hatrumah who is strict and therefore leaves room for the above discussion.</ref>

==Transference of Taste==

* Pri Megadim M”Z 94:14 distinguishes between when the milk taste is absorbed completely by the rice and when regular milk is mixed together with the rice and partially sticks on the outside of the kernels or there is liquid between them. If it is just a taste that is absorbed then the milk doesn’t spread. However, if the milk is stuck to the outside of the kernels it would become absorbed into the spoon. Bet Shlomo Freedman v. 2 p. 102, Chachmat Adam 57:6, and Bet Meir on taz 94:14 agree.

*  Chazon Ish YD 22:7 s.v. ha distinguishes between when milk is mixed in with the rice while it is cold then it would transfer to the spoon. However, if it is cooked into the rice then it is only considered an absorption and wouldn’t transfer to the spoon. He explains that this is also the intent of the Bet Meir’s final answer.

* Therefore if the milk was completely absorbed with cooking both the approach of the Pri Megadim and Chazon Ish would be lenient unlike the Chavot Daat.</ref>

# If hot or even cold meat fell into hot milk or vice versa everything is forbidden. <ref>Shmuel in the Gemara Pesachim 76a says that the temperature of the bottom item overcomes the top item and if the bottom one is hot it'll heat up the top one. The Ran (Chullin 41b s.v. garsinan) quotes the Raah who says that the cold meat which fell into milk is only forbidden up to a fingersbreath but the Ran argues that it is completely forbidden. The Rashba (Torat HaBayit HaKatzar 5b) and Rambam (Machalot Asurot 9:17, as cited by the Bet Yosef 91:4) agree with the Ran. Tur and Shulchan Aruch YD 91:4 codify the opinion of Shmuel that if a cold item falls into a hot one the top one becomes hot and everything is completely forbidden. </ref>

# If hot milk falls onto cold meat the meat is only forbidden up to the depth of a peel. Sephardim hold that the milk is permitted, while Ashkenazim hold that the milk is forbidden unless there is sixty times the area of contact to the depth of a peel.<ref>The gemara Pesachim 76a says that if hot milk falls onto cold meat the meat is forbidden up to a peel. Tosfot s.v. tanya quotes Rabbenu Tam who says that the milk isn't forbidden at all since it is impossible to remove a peel of a liquid. However, the Riva is quoted by Tosfot as disagreeing and stating that the milk is forbidden unless there is sixty times the depth of a peel where the contact was made. The Tur 91:4 infers from the Rambam that he sides with the Rabbenu Tam. Shulchan Aruch YD 91:4 holds like Rabbenu Tam, however, the Taz 91:7 and Badei Hashulchan 91:34 are strict for the Riva. </ref>

* Rav Ben Tzion Wosner (Or Yisrael 5763 year 8 no. 4:34 pp. 92-102), son of Rav Shmuel Wosner, writes that ovens aren’t an issue of steam because since the walls are so hot they burn up the steam before it is absorbed. This concept can be found in the Maharsham 3:208 though that isn’t his conclusion and advises being strict. Yavetz (1:93) is lenient and is adamant about this issue.

* Minchat Yitzchak 5:20 and Chelkat Yakov 2:136 are strict. Chut Shani Pesach 10:2 writes that one should kosher an oven between meat and milk by waiting 24 hours and heating it up to its highest temperature which is certainly libun kal.

# According to Sephardim, many Poskim rule that nowadays a person should have separate ovens for [[cooking]] meat and for [[cooking]] milk.<ref> Rabbi Mansour says this lechatchila at dailyhalacha.com. [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=491] This is also the opinion of R' Shmuel Pinchasi quoted at dailyhalacha.com. [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=645] </ref> In cases where this is difficult, one can be lenient to use one oven so long as one covers all food placed in the oven. Alternatively, if one cooks a solid food in the oven over 24 hours apart from of the opposite type and one also preheated it for 20 minutes.<ref>Yabia Omer 5:7:8, Chut Shani Pesach 10:2. He explains that although preheating it isn't going to be libun chamur it is sufficient to kosher it with libun kal since it is only hetera baala (Shulchan Aruch O.C. 509:5). Rav Moshe Feinstein in Iggerot Moshe Y"D 1:40. Chacham Ovadia Yosef quoted by Rabbi Mansour [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=491&txtSearch=separate%20ovens] writes that bedieved if one didn't wait 24 hours before cooking the opposite type of food, the food would nevertheless be permissible. However, R' Ovadia states that ideally one should wait 24 hours between cooking the two foods and that one should first let the oven run for 15 minutes before placing the second food into the oven. </ref> After the fact, one may be lenient.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:7:8. His reasons for being lenient include: zeyia is only rabbinic ([http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=22440&st=&pgnum=17 Sh"t Peni Yehoshua 13], Yesodei Yeshurun v. 6 p. 158), it is a dispute, it might not come out into the new food, it might be burnt up, and it have dissipated through a vent. He is lenient after the fact even within 24 hours even on liquids cooked one after another. </ref>

## According to some, if the foods are dry foods that don't produce vapors, then one may place the foods in the oven one after the other (but not at the same time).<ref>Rav Moshe Feinstein in Iggerot Moshe Y"D 1:40. Rav Ovadia Yosef in Yabia Omer 5:7:8 writes that those who follow this opinion have what to rely upon though he recommends being stricter. </ref> Others rule that one should wait 24 hours between cooking the foods and that one should first let the oven run for 15 minutes before placing the second food into the oven.<ref>Chacham Ovadia Yosef quoted by Rabbi Mansour at dailyhalacha.com. [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=491] </ref>   

# Zeyia which isn't yad soledet bo can't transfer zeyia.<ref>Trumat Hadeshen Pesakim Uketavim 103, Rama 92:8</ref> Therefore, if meat is hanging above a pot of dairy that is cooking if it is so high above the pot that the steam isn't [[Yad Soledet Bo]] there is no concern.<ref>Rama 92:8</ref>

# A covered pot can't transfer zeyia.<ref>Rama 92:8</ref>

# There are some instances where it is possible for reycha to forbid food even after the fact according to Ashkenazim:  

## If the oven is small and completely sealed reycha forbids the food even after the fact.

====How to Prevent Reycha====

# There is no reycha when foods are cooked one after another.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 108:1</ref>

# If one or both of the foods were in pots with walls those walls separate between them and prevent reycha from transferring from one to the other.<ref>Bet Yosef 108:2, Shach 108:16, Horah Brurah 108:26</ref>

====Reycha for Parve====

==Microwave for Meat and Milk==

==Washing Meat and Milk Dishes in One Sink==

# Ideally, one should have two sinks one for meat and one for milk.<ref>Minchat Yitzchak 2:100, Badei Hashulchan 95:79</ref>

* The Minchat Yitzchak 2:100 is stricter because of several concerns about the water being able to transfer tastes into the sink walls and potentially back into the dishes. He seems to be concerned for an expanded definition of hot water being poured which can transfer taste and also suggests that since the faucet water is connected to the urn which is on the fire the entire stream is considered on the fire and not like regular poured water (see there). Therefore, he holds that one should only wash meat and dairy dishes in the same sink one after the other upon the following conditions: 1) One washes the dairy dishes in a dairy sink insert and the same for meat. 2) The insert sits upon a board or rack so that the insert doesn't directly touch the walls of the sink. 3) The sink is cleaned well between each cleaning of the dishes. 4) The drain is open so that the hot water doesn't submerge the dishes.

* Both opinions are cited by the Badei Hashulchan 95:80.</ref>

# Hot water which was poured and the stream was broken is considered hot enough to impart flavor up to the depth of a peel but can’t transfer taste from one food to another. <ref>Shach 105:5 says that a stream that was poured and was broken can’t cause a transfer of taste from one food into another but can cause a transference of taste. Kaf HaChaim 105:32 limits this to food and says that it wouldn’t cause taste to be imparted into a pot.</ref>

# If one is cleaning meat dishes in the same sink in which one cleaned milk dishes, if there's still some dairy remnant in the sink, it's forbidden to pour hot water there because at the time one pours the water the meat and milk are halachically cooked together even though one has no intention of using those remnants. <ref>Sefer [[Kashrut]] HaShulchan (Baser BeChalav 6:3) quoting Sh"t Yabia Omer 5:3 </ref>

===Dishwashers===

==Soaking as a Form of Cooking==

# Milk and meat that were soaked together for 24 hours or were salted together may not be eaten, however, they are permitted to benefit from.<ref>Shulchan Aruch YD 91:8, Shach 87:2</ref>

# If it soaked for 24 hours non-consecutively, such for 23 hours and then for another hour, after the fact most poskim assume that it is permitted.<ref>Kaf HaChaim 105:6</ref>

==Inedible Foods==

# Noten taam lifgam applies to all prohibitions including combinations of milk and meat.<ref>Kaf HaChaim 103:3, Chavot Daat (Biurim 103:1) unlike the Peleti 87:15</ref>

==Sharp Foods==

==Sources==

<references/>

[[Category:Kashrut]]