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Milk and Meat in the Kitchen: Difference between revisions
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# Even if one isn't going to eat the food, it is forbidden to cook meat in a dairy pot that was used within the last 24 hours for dairy.<ref>Pri Megadim (Siftei Daaat 87:18) holds that recooking meat in a dairy pot that was used within 24 hours for dairy is considered like cooking meat and milk together which is forbidden. </ref> | # Even if one isn't going to eat the food, it is forbidden to cook meat in a dairy pot that was used within the last 24 hours for dairy.<ref>Pri Megadim (Siftei Daaat 87:18) holds that recooking meat in a dairy pot that was used within 24 hours for dairy is considered like cooking meat and milk together which is forbidden. </ref> | ||
# It is forbidden to stoke the coals under a pot that is cooking meat and milk.<ref>Rama 87:6</ref> | # It is forbidden to stoke the coals under a pot that is cooking meat and milk.<ref>Rama 87:6</ref> | ||
# According to many poskim it is permitted to smell meat and milk together such as a cheese burger since they are cooked as food and not for the smell.<ref>Sh"t Rashba 3:234 writes that it is permitted to smell something that is forbidden if it isn't made for its smell. Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 108:7 codifies this Rashba. Shach 108:27 quotes the Tosfot Avoda Zara 12b who argues with Tosfot.</ref> | |||
===Feeding An Animal Meat and Milk=== | ===Feeding An Animal Meat and Milk=== | ||
# Some hold that it is forbidden to feed meat and milk cooked together to animals, even ones that belong to other people, since there is a benefit in having one's desires fulfilled and by using the meat and milk one was able to fulfill his intentions.<ref>Pitchei Teshuva 94:5 quotes the Isur Veheter, Maharshal, Taz, and Rama who are forbid giving meat and milk to a dog even if it doesn't belong to you. Then he cites the Mekor Chaim and Gra who permit this and explain that chametz is unique that such a benefit is forbidden. The Shaar Hatziyun 448:75 sides with the strict approach though he cites the Gra as being lenient.</ref> | # Some hold that it is forbidden to feed meat and milk cooked together to animals, even ones that belong to other people, since there is a benefit in having one's desires fulfilled and by using the meat and milk one was able to fulfill his intentions.<ref>Pitchei Teshuva 94:5 quotes the Isur Veheter, Maharshal, Taz, and Rama who are forbid giving meat and milk to a dog even if it doesn't belong to you. Then he cites the Mekor Chaim and Gra who permit this and explain that chametz is unique that such a benefit is forbidden. The Shaar Hatziyun 448:75 sides with the strict approach though he cites the Gra as being lenient.</ref> | ||
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==Utensils== | ==Utensils== | ||
===Cups=== | ===Cups=== | ||
# One shouldn't drink from the same cup when one was eating meat and when one is eating dairy.<ref>Rama 88:2</ref> | # One shouldn't drink from the same cup when one was eating meat and when one is eating dairy.<ref>Hagahot Ashri 8:20 from Rav Klonimus and Rav Yehuda, Rama Y.D. 88:2</ref> | ||
# One can use the same cup to drink a parve drink while one is eating meat or milk as long as one wipes one's lips before drinking so that a fat residue doesn't stick to the lip of the cup.<ref>Aruch Hashulchan 88:11</ref> | # One can use the same cup to drink a parve drink while one is eating meat or milk as long as one wipes one's lips before drinking so that a fat residue doesn't stick to the lip of the cup.<ref>Aruch Hashulchan 88:11</ref> | ||
==Food that was on the Table== | ==Food that was on the Table== | ||
# Sliced bread that was on the table during a meat meal should be treated as meat and can't be eaten with milk since meat residue may have touched it.<ref>Yerushalmi Pesachim 6:4, Shulchan Aruch YD 91:3. Igrot Moshe YD 1:38 holds that the actual prohibition of eating bread from a meat meal with dairy only applies to the bread which was eaten with meat or sliced pieces that were intended to be eaten. Still it is preferable not to eat with dairy any of the bread that was on the table during the meat meal. Badei Hashulchan 89:98 and The Laws of Kashrut (p. 212) adopt the opinion of the Igrot Moshe.</ref> Some question how it is permitted to save that bread for another meat meal since one might forget and eat it with milk. However, the minhag is to save the cut up bread on the table to save that bread for another meat meal.<ref>Badei Hashulchan 91:17 quotes this minhag and questions it. </ref> | # Sliced bread that was on the table during a meat meal should be treated as meat and can't be eaten with milk since meat residue may have touched it.<ref>Yerushalmi Pesachim 6:4, Shulchan Aruch YD 91:3. Igrot Moshe YD 1:38 holds that the actual prohibition of eating bread from a meat meal with dairy only applies to the bread which was eaten with meat or sliced pieces that were intended to be eaten. Still it is preferable not to eat with dairy any of the bread that was on the table during the meat meal. Badei Hashulchan 89:98 and The Laws of Kashrut (p. 212) adopt the opinion of the Igrot Moshe.</ref> Some question how it is permitted to save that bread for another meat meal since one might forget and eat it with milk. However, the minhag is to save the cut up bread on the table to save that bread for another meat meal.<ref>Badei Hashulchan 91:17 quotes this minhag and questions it. </ref> | ||
==Stovetops== | ==Stovetops== | ||
# Some poskim suggest being strict to use separate grates for stovetops that are designated for meat or dairy, however, many other poskim aren’t concerned and permit using the same grates.<ref>Igrot Moshe YD 1:40 was asked about using meat and dairy grates initially and he responded that it is permitted. He writes that we don’t need to be concerned since there’s no chance of taste going from your pot into the grate based on Rama 92:8 and Shach 105:22. Igrot Moshe YD 3:10 reiterates that his opinion isn’t in opposition to the Rama’s insistence on initially avoiding this concern. Badei Hashulchan 92:183 disagrees and advises using different stovetop grates for meat and milk so that there’s no transference of taste from pot to pot. [Rabbi Baruch Simon (yutorah.org Yoreh Deah Shiur 34 - Melicha K’rote’ach)] explains this dispute and added that the minhag is like Rav Moshe. </ref> | # Some poskim suggest being strict to use separate grates for stovetops that are designated for meat or dairy, however, many other poskim aren’t concerned and permit using the same grates.<ref>Igrot Moshe YD 1:40 was asked about using meat and dairy grates initially and he responded that it is permitted. He writes that we don’t need to be concerned since there’s no chance of taste going from your pot into the grate based on Rama 92:8 and Shach 105:22. Igrot Moshe YD 3:10 reiterates that his opinion isn’t in opposition to the Rama’s insistence on initially avoiding this concern. Badei Hashulchan 92:183 disagrees and advises using different stovetop grates for meat and milk so that there’s no transference of taste from pot to pot. [Rabbi Baruch Simon (yutorah.org Yoreh Deah Shiur 34 - Melicha K’rote’ach)] explains this dispute and added that the minhag is like Rav Moshe. </ref> | ||
==Meat and Dairy | ==Meat and Dairy Equipment== | ||
# Parve food cooked in a meat pot is considered meat-equipment and according to Ashkenazim it shouldn't be eaten together with dairy but after the fact if it was cooked with dairy it would be permitted to be eaten. According to Sephardim it is permitted even initially to eat the parve food made with meat equipment with dairy.<ref>Shulchan Aruch and Rama YD 95:1</ref> | # Parve food cooked in a meat pot is considered meat-equipment and according to Ashkenazim it shouldn't be eaten together with dairy but after the fact if it was cooked with dairy it would be permitted to be eaten. According to Sephardim it is permitted even initially to eat the parve food made with meat equipment with dairy.<ref>Shulchan Aruch and Rama YD 95:1</ref> | ||
# Parve food cooked in a dairy pot is considered dairy equipment and according to Ashkenazim it shouldn't be eaten together with meat but after the fact if it was cooked with meat it would be permitted to be eaten. According to Sephardim it is permitted even initially to eat the parve food made with dairy equipment with meat.<ref>Shulchan Aruch and Rama YD 95:1</ref> | # Parve food cooked in a dairy pot is considered dairy equipment and according to Ashkenazim it shouldn't be eaten together with meat but after the fact if it was cooked with meat it would be permitted to be eaten. According to Sephardim it is permitted even initially to eat the parve food made with dairy equipment with meat.<ref>Shulchan Aruch and Rama YD 95:1</ref> | ||
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# If a hot piece of meat is cut with a cold dairy knife if the knife was used for dairy within 24 hours the amount of a "peel" needs to be removed from the meat. If it wasn't used within 24 hours the meat is kosher. The knife in either case needs to be cleaned off but not koshered.<ref>Rama Y.D. 94:7</ref> However, many poskim hold that the meat is completely not kosher and the knife needs to be koshered.<ref>Badei Hashulchan 94:101 cites the achronim who argue with the Rama including the Maharshal and sides with him unless there is a case of great loss. That is also the view of the Aruch Hashulchan.</ref> | # If a hot piece of meat is cut with a cold dairy knife if the knife was used for dairy within 24 hours the amount of a "peel" needs to be removed from the meat. If it wasn't used within 24 hours the meat is kosher. The knife in either case needs to be cleaned off but not koshered.<ref>Rama Y.D. 94:7</ref> However, many poskim hold that the meat is completely not kosher and the knife needs to be koshered.<ref>Badei Hashulchan 94:101 cites the achronim who argue with the Rama including the Maharshal and sides with him unless there is a case of great loss. That is also the view of the Aruch Hashulchan.</ref> | ||
# This applies even if the meat isn't yad soledet bo as long as it is hot.<Ref>Badei Hashulchan 94:100 based on Tosfot and Rosh on Chullin 8a. Gra explains that this Rama is based on Chullin that with duchka dsakina a kli sheni is boleh a klipah.</ref> | # This applies even if the meat isn't yad soledet bo as long as it is hot.<Ref>Badei Hashulchan 94:100 based on Tosfot and Rosh on Chullin 8a. Gra explains that this Rama is based on Chullin that with duchka dsakina a kli sheni is boleh a klipah.</ref> | ||
==Kashrut of Ovens for Meat and Milk== | |||
# To avoid all issues one should choose the primary use of the oven for meat or milk and then cover the other type. For example, if he chooses that it be used as a meat oven, the meat foods can be cooked in there uncovered. The dairy dishes with liquid should be covered, however, the dry dairy dishes can be cooked uncovered. Also, if within 24 hours of cooking a meat dish with liquid one wants to cook a dairy dish with liquid one should wait until after 24 hours even if it is covered.<ref>The Badei Hashulchan 92:183 presents this set of laws to prevent any prohibition. However, in cases of mistakes one should ask his rabbi. The following is a summary of halachic discussion on this topic: | |||
* Mishna Machshirin 2:2 says that steam is considered liquid to cause a fruit that came in contact with steam is considered susceptible to impurity since it came in contact with liquid. The Rosh (responsa 20:26) infers from this mishna that steam has the same status as the actual food where it came from. Therefore, he writes that if there’s a milk pot cooking below a meat pot the meat pot is forbidden because the steam is considered like hot milk. The Trumat Hadeshen (responsa 103) agrees but stipulates that it is only an issue if the steam reached the temperature of yad soledet bo. Therefore, it is permitted to cook a pot of milk food beneath hanging meat, such as salami, if the meat is far away and the steam won’t be yad soledet bo once it reaches the meat. Shulchan Aruch 92:8 codifies the opinion of the Rosh, while the Rama quotes the Trumat Hadeshen. | |||
* Because of a concern of steam coming from an uncovered pot of food in an oven, some poskim forbid using one oven for meat and milk even not at the same time. Rav Moshe Feinstein in Igrot Moshe 1:40 writes that there is an issue. See what he writes regarding after the fact. He rejects 3 concerns that could be used to argue that it is permitted. | |||
* (1) Perhaps since the oven is large the steam doesn’t get absorbed into the walls just like the Trumat Hadeshen said that steam that’s less than yad soledet bo isn’t absorbed. Rav Moshe argues that even if the steam weren’t yad soledet bo nonetheless they would be absorbed into the ceiling of the oven since it is very hot and heats up the steam upon touch. | |||
* (2) Rav Moshe holds that a vent in the walls doesn’t allow all of the steam to exit. | |||
* (3) Lastly, Rav Moshe doesn’t think that the steam was burned up before it was absorbed into the walls since we only can be sure that a drop of liquid is burnt up right near the fire (see Shulchan Aruch 92:6). | |||
* Rav Ben Tzion Wosner (Or Yisrael 5763 year 8 no. 4:34 pp. 92-102), son of Rav Shmuel Wosner, writes that ovens aren’t an issue of steam because since the walls are so hot they burn up the steam before it is absorbed. This concept can be found in the Maharsham 3:208 though that isn’t his conclusion. Yavetz (1:93) is lenient and is adamant about this issue. | |||
* Minchat Yitzchak 5:20 and Chelkat Yakov 2:136 are strict. | |||
* Concerning dry dishes the Pri Megadim (seder v’hanahagot hashoel im hanishal b’isur v’heter seder 2 no. 37) says that zeiya is only an issur from liquids and not dry foods. Rav Moshe in Igrot Moshe YD 1:40 says that there is an issue of steam from dry foods if you can see it, otherwise you don’t need to assume that there is steam from dry dishes.</ref> | |||
# According to Sephardim, many Poskim rule that nowadays a person should have separate ovens for [[cooking]] meat and for [[cooking]] milk.<ref> Rabbi Mansour says this lechatchila at dailyhalacha.com. [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=491] This is also the opinion of R' Shmuel Pinchasi quoted at dailyhalacha.com. [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=645] </ref> In cases where this is difficult, one can be lenient to use one oven so long as one covers all food placed in the oven. Alternatively, if one cooks a solid food in the oven over 24 hours apart from of the opposite type and one also preheated it for 20 minutes.<ref>Yabia Omer 5:7:8. Rav Moshe Feinstein in Iggerot Moshe Y"D 1:40. Chacham Ovadia Yosef quoted by Rabbi Mansour [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=491&txtSearch=separate%20ovens] writes that bedieved if one didn't wait 24 hours before cooking the opposite type of food, the food would nevertheless be permissible. However, R' Ovadia states that ideally one should wait 24 hours between cooking the two foods and that one should first let the oven run for 15 minutes before placing the second food into the oven. </ref> After the fact, one may be lenient.<ref>Yabia Omer YD 5:7:8. His reasons for being lenient include: zeyia is only rabbinic ([http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=22440&st=&pgnum=17 Sh"t Peni Yehoshua 13]), it is a dispute, it might not come out into the new food, it might be burnt up, and it have dissipated through a vent. He is lenient after the fact even within 24 hours even on liquids cooked one after another. </ref> | |||
## According to some, if the foods are dry foods that don't produce vapors, then one may place the foods in the oven one after the other (but not at the same time).<ref>Rav Moshe Feinstein in Iggerot Moshe Y"D 1:40. Rav Ovadia Yosef in Yabia Omer 5:7:8 writes that those who follow this opinion have what to rely upon though he recommends being stricter. </ref> Others rule that one should wait 24 hours between cooking the foods and that one should first let the oven run for 15 minutes before placing the second food into the oven.<ref>Chacham Ovadia Yosef quoted by Rabbi Mansour at dailyhalacha.com. [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=491] </ref> | |||
# In a case where someone has only one oven, he does not need to have separate oven grates for meat and milk.<ref>Rav Moshe Feinstein in Iggerot Moshe Y"D 1:40. </ref> | |||
===Reyacha=== | |||
# If one cooks two foods in the oven at the same time there is a smell (reycha) that is transferred from one food to the other. After the fact the food is permitted.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 108:1</ref> | |||
# There are some instances where it is possible for reycha to forbid food even after the fact according to Ashkenazim: | |||
## If the oven is small and completely sealed reycha forbids the food even after the fact. | |||
## If one of the foods is a Dvar Charif then reycha can forbid the food even after the fact. | |||
## If the prohibition under consideration is forbidden in any amount, such as Chametz, reycha can forbid the food even after the fact.<ref>Rama Y.D. 108:1</ref> | |||
====How to Prevent Reycha==== | |||
# There is no reycha when foods are cooked one after another.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 108:1</ref> | |||
# If the oven is large enough to hold 12 isaron of bread and has a large vent there is no reycha. The poskim assume that our ovens today do not have that requisite size.<ref>Horah Brurah 108</ref> | |||
# If one or both of the foods were in pots with walls those walls separate between them and prevent reycha from transferring from one to the other.<ref>Bet Yosef 108:2, Shach 108:16, Horah Brurah 108:26</ref> | |||
====Reycha for Parve==== | |||
# '''Bread:''' If one cooked open meat simultaneously with open bread in the oven at a temperature above Yad Soledet Bo one shouldn't eat the bread with dairy.<ref>Shulchan Aruch Y.D. 97:3, Shach 108:2</ref> | |||
==Microwave for Meat and Milk== | ==Microwave for Meat and Milk== | ||
# If one uses a microwave for meat and for dairy (at different times), some authorities hold that one should preferably double wrap all foods<ref> [http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/common/article/is_your_oven_kosher_what_every_kosher_cook_must_know/ The OU] quotes Rav Yisrael Belsky who says that preferably one should double wrap food put in a microwave if it's used for meat and dairy (at different times). </ref>, however, some authorities hold that covering it well with one covering is sufficient. Some also advise using different trays one for dairy and one for meat. <ref>Yalkut Yosef (Isser Veheter, vol 3, pg 167) rules that if the microwave works only on radiation (without a heater) one should make sure to cover all food very well and then it would be permissible to use it for meat and dairy one after another. This is also the opinion of [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/Display.asp?ClipDate=8/9/2004 Rabbi Mansour] at Dailyhalacha.com. [http://www.bknw.org/pafiledb/uploads/Kashrus%20of%20a%20Microwave%20-%20new.pdf Rabbi Aryeh Lebowitz] writes that one covering should suffice to inhibit the splattering of food and steam from being released. He also mentions the point about using separate microwave trays. </ref> | # If one uses a microwave for meat and for dairy (at different times), some authorities hold that one should preferably double wrap all foods<ref> [http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/common/article/is_your_oven_kosher_what_every_kosher_cook_must_know/ The OU] quotes Rav Yisrael Belsky who says that preferably one should double wrap food put in a microwave if it's used for meat and dairy (at different times). This is also reflected in this [https://oukosher.org/halacha-yomis/one-microwave-oven-can-use-milchigs-fleishigs/ OU article] and is the opinion of the [https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/706/meat-and-dairy-a-kosher-consumers-handbook/#f6 Star-K].</ref>, however, some authorities hold that covering it well with one covering is sufficient. Some also advise using different trays one for dairy and one for meat. <ref>Yalkut Yosef (Isser Veheter, vol 3, pg 167) rules that if the microwave works only on radiation (without a heater) one should make sure to cover all food very well and then it would be permissible to use it for meat and dairy one after another. This is also the opinion of [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/Display.asp?ClipDate=8/9/2004 Rabbi Mansour] at Dailyhalacha.com. [http://www.bknw.org/pafiledb/uploads/Kashrus%20of%20a%20Microwave%20-%20new.pdf Rabbi Aryeh Lebowitz] writes that one covering should suffice to inhibit the splattering of food and steam from being released. He also mentions the point about using separate microwave trays. [https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/909086/rabbi-aryeh-lebowitz/meat-and-dairy-in-same-oven-or-microwave/ Rabbi Lebowitz in another shiur (min 44)] mentions that one should use separate trays or make sure it is clean. He isn't concerned about zeyia if all the foods are covered. (Microwave turntables can become yad soledet bo ([https://www.subzero-wolf.com/assistance/answers/microwave-turntable-hot-after-use subzero.com])). | ||
* Yad Yehuda Pirush Hakatzar 92:72 writes that if the zeyia is Yad Soledet Bo but the pot isn't it will make the pot absorb the zeyia but not the food inside it, however, if the pot itself is also hot it'll go into the food as well. See Pirush Haaruch 55 at length. like nizchal in 92:7.</ref> | |||
# Alternatively, one can cover all dairy foods with one large plastic microwave container and all meat foods with another container designated for meat. Also, the plastic containers may have tiny holes to let out steam.<ref>The Laws of Kashrut (p. 235)</ref> | # Alternatively, one can cover all dairy foods with one large plastic microwave container and all meat foods with another container designated for meat. Also, the plastic containers may have tiny holes to let out steam.<ref>The Laws of Kashrut (p. 235)</ref> | ||
# If one wan't careful to keep his microwave kosher in these regards, one can make it kosher again by cleaning the microwave out and boiling water in the microwave for a few minutes until it steams. Some also recommend adding soap to the water that is to be boiled in the microwave.<ref>Rabbi Forst in The Laws of Kashrut (p. 234), Rabbi Mansour in the name of R' Shmuel Pinchasi at dailyhalacha.com. [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=645]. Yalkut Yosef (Isser Veheter vol. 3, p. 167) writes that one can kosher a microwave by boiling water with a little soap in it for ten minutes and then cleaning the steam off the walls. </ref> | # If one wan't careful to keep his microwave kosher in these regards, one can make it kosher again by cleaning the microwave out and boiling water in the microwave for a few minutes until it steams. Some also recommend adding soap to the water that is to be boiled in the microwave.<ref>Rabbi Forst in The Laws of Kashrut (p. 234), Rabbi Mansour in the name of R' Shmuel Pinchasi at dailyhalacha.com. [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=645]. Yalkut Yosef (Isser Veheter vol. 3, p. 167) writes that one can kosher a microwave by boiling water with a little soap in it for ten minutes and then cleaning the steam off the walls. </ref> | ||
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==Toaster-Oven for Meat and Milk== | ==Toaster-Oven for Meat and Milk== | ||
# One should preferably designate his or her toaster-oven specifically for meat or for dairy, since it is small and hard to clean out. The concern is that small particles remain behind in the toaster-oven and would then make it impossible to separate between meat and dairy foods.<ref>Rabbi Mansour in the name of R' Shmuel Pinchasi at dailyhalacha.com. [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=645] </ref> | # One should preferably designate his or her toaster-oven specifically for meat or for dairy, since it is small and hard to clean out. The concern is that small particles remain behind in the toaster-oven and would then make it impossible to separate between meat and dairy foods.<ref>Rabbi Mansour in the name of R' Shmuel Pinchasi at dailyhalacha.com. [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/displayRead.asp?readID=645] </ref> | ||
==Steam Jacket Kettle== | |||
# Some permit using a steam jacket kettle even if that steam was previously used for non-Kosher.<ref>Rav Schachter in OU document K-36 is lenient on using a steam jacket with steam that was used for forbidden foods because steam isn't the same as vapor. Steam is a gas and water vapor are droplets in the air ([https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-steam-and-vapour Quora.com]). Since steam isn't a liquid it can't absorb taste. He adds that since the metal pots don't let beliyot through the pot perhaps that can be used as a factor to be lenient.</ref> | |||
==Washing Meat and Milk Dishes in One Sink== | ==Washing Meat and Milk Dishes in One Sink== | ||
