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Mikvaot: Difference between revisions
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→Zochlin from Mikveh to Mikveh
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=== Zochlin from Mikveh to Mikveh === | === Zochlin from Mikveh to Mikveh === | ||
#Rav Shlomo Kluger has 3 reasons that he thinks that there's no zochlin from mikveh to mikveh. Bet Shlomo adds another 2 reasons: | #Rav Shlomo Kluger has 3 reasons that he thinks that there's no zochlin from mikveh to mikveh. Bet Shlomo adds another 2 reasons: | ||
##It is only considered zochlin if the water is leaving the mikveh and flowing beyond the mikveh. If, however, the water is leaking from the mikveh and going into a contained area that isn't zochlin. Most achronim disagree with this.<ref>Rav Kluger's proof for this is Rama YD 201:52. Bet Shlomo YD 2:52, Simla 201:94, Maharam Shik YD 205, and Maharsham 3:239 disagree with this logic of Rav Kluger.</ref> | ##It is only considered zochlin if the water is leaving the mikveh and flowing beyond the mikveh. If, however, the water is leaking from the mikveh and going into a contained area that isn't zochlin. Most achronim disagree with this.<ref>Rav Kluger's proof for this is Rama YD 201:52. Bet Shlomo YD 2:52, Simla 201:94, Maharam Shik YD 205, and Maharsham 3:239 disagree with this logic of Rav Kluger. Maharam Shik's proof is from Rash Mikvaot 4:4 that zochlin into a house is a problem, as well as Rivash 292 according to Chatom Sofer YD 209. Tashbetz 3:34 also seems to be a very clear proof against Rav Shlomo Kluger.</ref> | ||
##If the waters are connected a tiny bit that automatically connects the mikvaot from the Torah. Even though on a rabbinic level the mikvaot aren't connected without a shifoferet hanod, for purposes of zochlin they're considered one mikveh. Bet Shlomo<ref>YD 2:51-52</ref> rejects this nuance and holds that shifoferet hanod is from the Torah. | ##If the waters are connected a tiny bit that automatically connects the mikvaot from the Torah. Even though on a rabbinic level the mikvaot aren't connected without a shifoferet hanod, for purposes of zochlin they're considered one mikveh. Bet Shlomo<ref>YD 2:51-52</ref> rejects this nuance and holds that shifoferet hanod is from the Torah. | ||
##Since the water isn't recognizably moving out of the mikveh, that isn't considered zochlin at all according to Shulchan Aruch YD 201:51. Bet Shlomo agrees with this point.<ref>Bet Shlomo (YD 2:51 s.v. vlibi and af) adds to this argument based on Shulchan Aruch YD 201:13 that water isn't considered zochlin unless it is streaming out and not if it is just dripping.</ref> | ##Since the water isn't recognizably moving out of the mikveh, that isn't considered zochlin at all according to Shulchan Aruch YD 201:51. Bet Shlomo agrees with this point.<ref>Bet Shlomo (YD 2:51 s.v. vlibi and af) adds to this argument based on Shulchan Aruch YD 201:13 that water isn't considered zochlin unless it is streaming out and not if it is just dripping. Maharam Shik YD 205 seems to agree.</ref> | ||
##Bet Shlomo has another argument that if the two mikvaot will always have 40 seah and the only water that's moving from one to the other won't diminish the 40 seah in the mikveh that is being used for tevila, that's kosher according to Shulchan Aruch YD 201:50. | ##Bet Shlomo has another argument that if the two mikvaot will always have 40 seah and the only water that's moving from one to the other won't diminish the 40 seah in the mikveh that is being used for tevila, that's kosher according to Shulchan Aruch YD 201:50. | ||
##Bet Shlomo also explains that according to Shach 201:30 there's no issue of zochlin because of the movement of the water based on the person who is currently tovel (dipping). He says that this factor is questionable as he proves from Tashbetz, Maharik, and Nodeh Beyehuda. | ##Bet Shlomo also explains that according to Shach 201:30 there's no issue of zochlin because of the movement of the water based on the person who is currently tovel (dipping). He says that this factor is questionable as he proves from Tashbetz, Maharik, and Nodeh Beyehuda. | ||
#''' | #'''If pipe is not completely full''': If the two mikvaot have a pipe the size of a shifoferet hanod but it isn't completely full of water, when somone is tovel there is some water that moves from one mikveh to the other due to water displacement, many poskim would consider the mikveh invalid because of zochlin.<ref>Rav Shlomo Kluger (Shaarei Tahara 39) is lenient, but the poskim including Tashbetz 3:34, Maharam Shik YD 205, Bet Shlomo 2:51 disagree with this and hold it is invalid.</ref> | ||
#'''If pipe is completely full''': If the two mikvaot are connected with a shifoferet hanod of stationary water, then Rav Shlomo Kluger, Rav Efraim Zalman Margoliyot, Gur Aryeh Yehuda, and Bet Shlomo<ref>Bet Shlomo 2:51 s.v. vma and lechen. Rav Kluger quoted Rav Zalman Efraim Margoliyot and Gur Aryeh Yehuda.</ref> hold that there's no zechila from mikveh to mikveh. No one would invalidate that mikveh except Rav Elazar Landau.<ref>Maharam Shik YD 205 also holds this is kosher. It is possible to argue that this is kosher based on reasons: 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, each of which theoretically suffice independently.</ref> | |||
# | ##However, some achronim are extremely machmir about this question and hold that even if the pipe is completely filled with water to consider the water moving through the pipe from one bor to the other bor to be considered zochlin. To avoid this, the hashaka pipe should be closed at the time of the tevila.<ref>Simla 201:94 holds that it is considered zochlin if water is going from one mikveh to another mikveh even though the pipe is full of water. He seems like he's only discussing a case where there's no shifoferet hanod connecting the mikvaot. </ref> Most achronim disagree and hold that this is not an issue.<ref>Rav Shlomo Kluger (Shirei Tahara 39, Mey Niddah, and Haelef Lecha Shlomo YD 233) explains that there's no zochlin from one mikveh to the other since the water remains stationary in either bor and returns back to the other bor. The Satmer Rebbe (Divrei Yoel 75) agreed that there's no zochlin from one mikveh to the other if the pipe is full of water. Rav Moshe Bick (Taharat Yom Tov v. 18 p. 373-4) quoted the Satmer Rebbe as laughing about this question and holding that it isn't an issue of zochlin even if the pipe isn't full. Because if that was considered zochlin, it should be zochlin even if the pipe is full of water. The solution to that would be to insist that the hashaka hole be closed up, but that no one heard was critical. | ||
Bet Shlomo YD 51 writes that Rabbi Elazar Landua challenged the validity of a mikveh where the water is moving from one mikveh to the other, while someone is tovel and the pipe is full with a shifoferet hanod of water. Bet Shlomo quotes that Rav Shlomo Kluger laughed about this question and thought obviously it isn't considered zochlin since the water isn't leaving anywhere. Bet Shlomo agreed that it is kosher. Rav Kluger went further and held it was kosher even if it isn't connected with a shifoferet hanod, but Bet Shlomo didn't agree with that point.</ref> | Bet Shlomo YD 51 writes that Rabbi Elazar Landua challenged the validity of a mikveh where the water is moving from one mikveh to the other, while someone is tovel and the pipe is full with a shifoferet hanod of water. Bet Shlomo quotes that Rav Shlomo Kluger laughed about this question and thought obviously it isn't considered zochlin since the water isn't leaving anywhere. Bet Shlomo agreed that it is kosher. Rav Kluger went further and held it was kosher even if it isn't connected with a shifoferet hanod, but Bet Shlomo didn't agree with that point.</ref> | ||
#'''Bor al gabi bor''': Chelkat Yakov<ref>3:54:6</ref> writes that there's no issue of zochlin from one mikveh to another mikveh if there is a bor al gabi bor with water that is stationary one on top of the other. | |||
#'''If there are holes smaller than shifoferet hanod''': | |||
##If the two mikvaot are not connected with a shifoferet hanod and only connected with a tiny amount of water, but the connection between the two mikvaot is completely underwater, then both Rav Shlomo Kluger and Bet Shlomo allow this.<ref>Teshuvot Vehanhagot 5:272:8 argues that the poskim allow this only bedieved and not initially.</ref> Since the movement between the two mikvaot isn't noticeable there's no zechila.<ref>It is possible to argue that this is kosher based on reasons: 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, each of which theoretically suffice independently. Maharam Shik YD 205 seems to agree. Minchat Yitzchak 1:147:9-12 is concerned for this type of zechila if it is unrecognizable because of Gra. However, if it is above 40 seah then he writes everyone agrees that it is kosher. Chelkat Yakov YD 112:6 seems to be even stricter and is concerned for zechila that's unrecognizable through the minimal hole between two mikvaot.</ref> | |||
##If the two mikvaot are not connected with a shifoferet hanod and only connected with a tiny amount of water, and the connection between the two mikvaot is above the water so that it is possible to see the water spilling one to the other, Rav Shlomo Kluger is lenient to consider that not zochlin, but most poskim disagree.<ref>It is possible to argue that this is kosher based on reasons: 1, 2, 4, and 5, but since Bet Shlomo disagrees with 1 and 2 and 4 and 5 are both subject to a dispute, Bet Shlomo holds that they should avoid this.</ref> | |||
===Zochlin that isn’t recognizable=== | ===Zochlin that isn’t recognizable=== | ||
