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Mikvaot: Difference between revisions
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→Zochlin from Mikveh to Mikveh
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* Gra 201:96 argues that according to the Rosh the invalidation of a mikveh is objective and even if it isn’t recognizable it is invalid. Rav Chaim in his letter and Rav Shternbuch are strict for the Gra.</ref> | * Gra 201:96 argues that according to the Rosh the invalidation of a mikveh is objective and even if it isn’t recognizable it is invalid. Rav Chaim in his letter and Rav Shternbuch are strict for the Gra.</ref> | ||
===Zochlin with water going into the mikveh=== | ===Zochlin with water going into the mikveh=== | ||
# If water is flowing into a mikveh but water isn’t flowing out there’s a dispute whether that is considered zochlin. <ref>Divrei Chayim Mikvaot 201:5 and Maharam Shik YD 205 hold that if there's water going into the mikveh it is invalid because of zochlin. However, the Lechem Vsimla 15 quoting the Mey Shiloach 2:8 holds that it isn't considered zochlin at all as long as there's 40 seah in the mikveh besides the water coming in. Arugat Habosem YD 211-2 is lenient even to include the water coming in towards the 40 seah.</ref> | # If water is flowing into a mikveh but water isn’t flowing out there’s a dispute whether that is considered zochlin.<ref>Divrei Chayim Mikvaot 201:5 and Maharam Shik YD 205 hold that if there's water going into the mikveh it is invalid because of zochlin. However, the Lechem Vsimla 15 quoting the Mey Shiloach 2:8 holds that it isn't considered zochlin at all as long as there's 40 seah in the mikveh besides the water coming in. Arugat Habosem YD 211-2 is lenient even to include the water coming in towards the 40 seah.</ref> | ||
===Zochlin | ===Zochlin while the mikveh is filling up=== | ||
# If the water is filled up to where the hashaka hole and when the woman dips in the mikveh, some water is displaced and partially fills up the hashaka hole and the water spills into the bor zeriya or bor hashaka. That movement of water could be considered zochlin and invalidate the mikveh.<ref>Chazon Ish (Likkutim 6:2 s.v. haya, YD 127:2 s.v. haya) himself raised the issue but limited it to where the water would be pouring out of the hole from bor tevila into the bor zeriya or bor hashaka and the water is arched. However, if the water is just dribbling down the side of the walls and not arched then it isn't considered zochlin. He leaves it with tzarich iyun, indicating that he wasn't certain about this point. Rav Chaim Kanievsky (Igrot Vereshimot Kehilat Yakov v. 4 siman 10 p. 26) writes that this leniency of the Chazon Ish is difficult to accept and should not be relied upon. </ref> What are the solutions? | # If the water is filled up to where the hashaka hole and when the woman dips in the mikveh, some water is displaced and partially fills up the hashaka hole and the water spills into the bor zeriya or bor hashaka. That movement of water could be considered zochlin and invalidate the mikveh.<ref>Chazon Ish (Likkutim 6:2 s.v. haya, YD 127:2 s.v. haya) himself raised the issue but limited it to where the water would be pouring out of the hole from bor tevila into the bor zeriya or bor hashaka and the water is arched. However, if the water is just dribbling down the side of the walls and not arched then it isn't considered zochlin. He leaves it with tzarich iyun, indicating that he wasn't certain about this point. Rav Chaim Kanievsky (Igrot Vereshimot Kehilat Yakov v. 4 siman 10 p. 26) writes that this leniency of the Chazon Ish is difficult to accept and should not be relied upon. </ref> What are the solutions? | ||
## Chazon Ish YD 123:1 has solution to put the pipe where water comes in lower down. Chelkat Yakov 10:3:53:2, 58:2 and Minchat Yitzchak 2:23 accept this Chazon Ish and actually implemented it in their mikvaot. However, Mikveh Mayim v. 1 p. 27 quotes Rav Greenwald from Papo who holds that this solution is worse. The water coming in from the pipe below makes it zochlin since all of the water can be seen rising and overflowing. Also, it is worse since the zechila is from below 40 seah. Mey Hashilo'ach p. 27. | ## Chazon Ish YD 123:1 has solution to put the pipe where water comes in lower down. Chelkat Yakov 10:3:53:2, 58:2 and Minchat Yitzchak 2:23 accept this Chazon Ish and actually implemented it in their mikvaot. However, Mikveh Mayim v. 1 p. 27 quotes Rav Greenwald from Papo who holds that this solution is worse. The water coming in from the pipe below makes it zochlin since all of the water can be seen rising and overflowing. Also, it is worse since the zechila is from below 40 seah. Mey Hashilo'ach p. 27. | ||
## Rav Moshe (Igrot Moshe YD 1:112) held that this isn't an issue at all since zochlin can create hashaka. Rav Aharon Kotler (mishnat rebbe aharon 24:8, 25:1) agrees. Chazon Ish kama 3:2, however, Maharsham 1:122 is machmir about this. | ## Rav Moshe (Igrot Moshe YD 1:112) held that this isn't an issue at all since zochlin can create hashaka. Rav Aharon Kotler (mishnat rebbe aharon 24:8, 25:1) agrees. Chazon Ish kama 3:2, however, Maharsham 1:122 is machmir about this. | ||
#Chelkat Yakov 3:54:6 writes that there's no issue of zochlin from one mikveh to another mikveh if there is a bor al gabi bor with water that is stationary one on top of the other. | |||
#Some achronim are extremely machmir about this question and hold that even if the pipe is completely filled with water to consider the water moving through the pipe from one bor to the other bor to be considered zochlin. To avoid this, the hashaka pipe should be closed at the time of the tevila.<ref>Simla 201:94 holds that it is considered zochlin if water is going from one mikveh to another mikveh even though the pipe is full of water. </ref> Most achronim disagree and hold that this is not an issue.<ref>Rav Shlomo Kluger (Shirei Tahara 39, Mey Niddah, and Haelef Lecha Shlomo YD 233) explains that there's no zochlin from one mikveh to the other since the water remains stationary in either bor and returns back to the other bor. The Satmer Rebbe (Divrei Yoel 75) agreed that there's no zochlin from one mikveh to the other if the pipe is full of water. Rav Moshe Bick (Taharat Yom Tov v. 18 p. 373-4) quoted the Satmer Rebbe as laughing about this question and holding that it isn't an issue of zochlin even if the pipe isn't full. Because if that was considered zochlin, it should be zochlin even if the pipe is full of water. The solution to that would be to insist that the hashaka hole be closed up, but that no one heard was critical. | === Zochlin from Mikveh to Mikveh === | ||
#Rav Shlomo Kluger has 3 reasons that he thinks that there's no zochlin from mikveh to mikveh. Bet Shlomo adds another 2 reasons: | |||
##It is only considered zochlin if the water is leaving the mikveh and flowing beyond the mikveh. If, however, the water is leaking from the mikveh and going into a contained area that isn't zochlin. Most achronim disagree with this.<ref>Rav Kluger's proof for this is Rama YD 201:52. Bet Shlomo YD 2:52, Simla 201:94, Maharam Shik YD 205, and Maharsham 3:239 disagree with this logic of Rav Kluger.</ref> | |||
##If the waters are connected a tiny bit that automatically connects the mikvaot from the Torah. Even though on a rabbinic level the mikvaot aren't connected without a shifoferet hanod, for purposes of zochlin they're considered one mikveh. Bet Shlomo<ref>YD 2:51-52</ref> rejects this nuance and holds that shifoferet hanod is from the Torah. | |||
##Since the water isn't recognizably moving out of the mikveh, that isn't considered zochlin at all according to Shulchan Aruch YD 201:51. Bet Shlomo agrees with this point.<ref>Bet Shlomo (YD 2:51 s.v. vlibi and af) adds to this argument based on Shulchan Aruch YD 201:13 that water isn't considered zochlin unless it is streaming out and not if it is just dripping.</ref> | |||
##Bet Shlomo has another argument that if the two mikvaot will always have 40 seah and the only water that's moving from one to the other won't diminish the 40 seah in the mikveh that is being used for tevila, that's kosher according to Shulchan Aruch YD 201:50. | |||
##Bet Shlomo also explains that according to Shach 201:30 there's no issue of zochlin because of the movement of the water based on the person who is currently tovel (dipping). He says that this factor is questionable as he proves from Tashbetz, Maharik, and Nodeh Beyehuda. | |||
#'''Case 1''': If the two mikvaot are connected with a shifoferet hanod of stationary water, then Rav Shlomo Kluger, Rav Efraim Zalman Margoliyot, Gur Aryeh Yehuda, and Bet Shlomo<ref>Bet Shlomo 2:51 s.v. vma and lechen. Rav Kluger quoted Rav Zalman Efraim Margoliyot and Gur Aryeh Yehuda.</ref> hold that there's no zechila from mikveh to mikveh. No one would invalidate that mikveh except Rav Elazar Landau.<ref>It is possible to argue that this is kosher based on reasons: 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, each of which theoretically suffice independently.</ref> | |||
#'''Case 2''': If the two mikvaot are not connected with a shifoferet hanod and only connected with a tiny amount of water, but the connection between the two mikvaot is completely underwater, then both Rav Shlomo Kluger and Bet Shlomo allow this.<ref>Teshuvot Vehanhagot 5:272:8 argues that the poskim allow this only bedieved and not initially.</ref> Since the movement between the two mikvaot isn't noticeable there's no zechila.<ref>It is possible to argue that this is kosher based on reasons: 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, each of which theoretically suffice independently.</ref> | |||
#'''Case 3:''' If the two mikvaot are not connected with a shifoferet hanod and only connected with a tiny amount of water, and the connection between the two mikvaot is above the water so that it is possible to see the water spilling one to the other, Rav Shlomo Kluger is lenient to consider that not zochlin, but most poskim disagree.<ref>It is possible to argue that this is kosher based on reasons: 1, 2, 4, and 5, but since Bet Shlomo disagrees with 1 and 2 and 4 and 5 are both subject to a dispute, Bet Shlomo holds that they should avoid this.</ref> | |||
#'''Solution 1''': Chelkat Yakov 3:54:6 writes that there's no issue of zochlin from one mikveh to another mikveh if there is a bor al gabi bor with water that is stationary one on top of the other. | |||
#'''Solution 2''': Some achronim are extremely machmir about this question and hold that even if the pipe is completely filled with water to consider the water moving through the pipe from one bor to the other bor to be considered zochlin. To avoid this, the hashaka pipe should be closed at the time of the tevila.<ref>Simla 201:94 holds that it is considered zochlin if water is going from one mikveh to another mikveh even though the pipe is full of water. He seems like he's only discussing a case where there's no shifoferet hanod connecting the mikvaot. </ref> Most achronim disagree and hold that this is not an issue.<ref>Rav Shlomo Kluger (Shirei Tahara 39, Mey Niddah, and Haelef Lecha Shlomo YD 233) explains that there's no zochlin from one mikveh to the other since the water remains stationary in either bor and returns back to the other bor. The Satmer Rebbe (Divrei Yoel 75) agreed that there's no zochlin from one mikveh to the other if the pipe is full of water. Rav Moshe Bick (Taharat Yom Tov v. 18 p. 373-4) quoted the Satmer Rebbe as laughing about this question and holding that it isn't an issue of zochlin even if the pipe isn't full. Because if that was considered zochlin, it should be zochlin even if the pipe is full of water. The solution to that would be to insist that the hashaka hole be closed up, but that no one heard was critical. | |||
Bet Shlomo YD 51 writes that Rabbi Elazar Landua challenged the validity of a mikveh where the water is moving from one mikveh to the other, while someone is tovel and the pipe is full with a shifoferet hanod of water. Bet Shlomo quotes that Rav Shlomo Kluger laughed about this question and thought obviously it isn't considered zochlin since the water isn't leaving anywhere. Bet Shlomo agreed that it is kosher. Rav Kluger went further and held it was kosher even if it isn't connected with a shifoferet hanod, but Bet Shlomo didn't agree with that point.</ref> | Bet Shlomo YD 51 writes that Rabbi Elazar Landua challenged the validity of a mikveh where the water is moving from one mikveh to the other, while someone is tovel and the pipe is full with a shifoferet hanod of water. Bet Shlomo quotes that Rav Shlomo Kluger laughed about this question and thought obviously it isn't considered zochlin since the water isn't leaving anywhere. Bet Shlomo agreed that it is kosher. Rav Kluger went further and held it was kosher even if it isn't connected with a shifoferet hanod, but Bet Shlomo didn't agree with that point.</ref> | ||
