Materials to use for S'chach: Difference between revisions
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Materials to use for S'chach (view source)
Revision as of 14:16, 20 September 2021
, 20 September 2021→Schach Held Up by Unfit Items
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* Lastly, the Baal HaMeor ([[Sukkah]] 10a) holds like the rabbanan and we shouldn’t be concerned with either reason above. | * Lastly, the Baal HaMeor ([[Sukkah]] 10a) holds like the rabbanan and we shouldn’t be concerned with either reason above. | ||
* Even according to the first group of rishonim there are two limitations. The Ran writes that it is permitted to place [[schach]] on top of stone walls because no one uses stones for [[schach]] and no one will make a mistake to think that it is kosher. Additionally, the Ramban writes that placing [[schach]] on top of poles on top of a bed is permitted since the bed is acting as a ground for the [[sukkah]] and isn’t directly supporting the [[schach]]. | * Even according to the first group of rishonim there are two limitations. The Ran writes that it is permitted to place [[schach]] on top of stone walls because no one uses stones for [[schach]] and no one will make a mistake to think that it is kosher. Additionally, the Ramban writes that placing [[schach]] on top of poles on top of a bed is permitted since the bed is acting as a ground for the [[sukkah]] and isn’t directly supporting the [[schach]]. | ||
* What’s the halacha? Since Shulchan Aruch O.C. 630:13 holds like the Rosh, it would seem to be clear that is permitted to use items that are susceptible to tumah to hold up the [[schach]]. However, Shulchan Aruch O.C. 629:7 has a doubt whether it is permitted to place a ladder on top of [[schach]]. The Magen Avraham 629:9 suggests an explanation in which he forbids using a ladder that is susceptible to tumah lechatchila and would only permit it after the fact. Mishna Brurah 630:59 writes that it is permitted, but it is proper to be concerned for the opinions who are strict. </ref> According to most leading authorities, however, it's permissible to place [[S'chach]] on top of a material that's fit for [[S'chach]] which is in turn held up by something that's unfit for [[S'chach]]. Therefore, if one has a metal frame one should place wooden planks on the frame and then [[S'chach]] on top of it.<ref>Mishna Brurah 629:26, BeYitzchak Yikra (Rav Nevinsal) on that Mishna Brurah quoting Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Yabia Omer 10:46 and Chazon Ovadyah | * What’s the halacha? Since Shulchan Aruch O.C. 630:13 holds like the Rosh, it would seem to be clear that is permitted to use items that are susceptible to tumah to hold up the [[schach]]. However, Shulchan Aruch O.C. 629:7 has a doubt whether it is permitted to place a ladder on top of [[schach]]. The Magen Avraham 629:9 suggests an explanation in which he forbids using a ladder that is susceptible to tumah lechatchila and would only permit it after the fact. Mishna Brurah 630:59 writes that it is permitted, but it is proper to be concerned for the opinions who are strict. </ref> According to most leading authorities, however, it's permissible to place [[S'chach]] on top of a material that's fit for [[S'chach]] which is in turn held up by something that's unfit for [[S'chach]]. Therefore, if one has a metal frame one should place wooden planks on the frame and then [[S'chach]] on top of it.<ref>Mishna Brurah 629:26, BeYitzchak Yikra (Rav Nevinsal) on that Mishna Brurah quoting Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Rav Ovadia Yosef (Yabia Omer 10:46 and Chazon Ovadyah Sukkot pg 44), and Or Letzion 4:24:8 are lenient unlike the Chazon Ish 143:2-3. [http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/764662/Rabbi_Hershel_Schachter/%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%99_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%94%D7%9B'%D7%A4_%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%95%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%AA Rav Hershel Schachter] (62:30-66:15) also seems to be lenient. See Chelkat Yaakov 3:127, Minchat Shlomo 2:55, and Moadim U'zmanim 1:82. | ||
* The Magen Avraham 629:9 permits using metal nails to support the poles of the [[sukkah]] since they don’t directly support the [[schach]]. For example, the Bikkurei Yacov 629:15 writes that it is permitted to place [[schach]] on top of wooden poles on top of walls which are susceptible to impurity. The Chazon Ish (O.C. 143:2) argues since we can’t distinguish between different layers of [[schach]] and simply state the top layer of kosher [[schach]] is supported by another layer that is in turn supported by an item that is susceptible to tumah. Rav Schachter (“Inyonei [[Sukkah]]”, min 44-6, 62-4) noted that although the Chazon Ish’s argument is reasonable, the minhag follows the Magen Avraham and allows placing [[schach]] on top of planks on top of a metal frame.</ref> After the fact, if the [[schach]] was placed directly on metal, it is kosher.<ref> Mishna Brurah 629:22 and 630:58 </ref> | * The Magen Avraham 629:9 permits using metal nails to support the poles of the [[sukkah]] since they don’t directly support the [[schach]]. For example, the Bikkurei Yacov 629:15 writes that it is permitted to place [[schach]] on top of wooden poles on top of walls which are susceptible to impurity. The Chazon Ish (O.C. 143:2) argues since we can’t distinguish between different layers of [[schach]] and simply state the top layer of kosher [[schach]] is supported by another layer that is in turn supported by an item that is susceptible to tumah. Rav Schachter (“Inyonei [[Sukkah]]”, min 44-6, 62-4) noted that although the Chazon Ish’s argument is reasonable, the minhag follows the Magen Avraham and allows placing [[schach]] on top of planks on top of a metal frame.</ref> After the fact, if the [[schach]] was placed directly on metal, it is kosher.<ref> Mishna Brurah 629:22 and 630:58 </ref> | ||
# One should ideally avoid [[tying]] the [[schach]] down with a material that would not serve as kosher [[schach]] if the [[schach]] would be unable to withstand regular wind independently.<ref> Be’tzel Ha’Chochma 5:44</ref> However, many poskim permit in all circumstances to tie down [[schach]] with material that is only invalid as [[schach]] mi’derabanan, such as natural twine.<ref>Rav Vosner cited in the Beit Levi Cheilek 4, pg. 23, Chazon Ovadia p. 30, Or Letzion 4:24:9, and [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/972040/rabbi-hershel-schachter/inyonei-succos-5781/ Rav Schachter]. Rav Ovadia Yosef (Chazon Ovadia p. 24-5) writes that it is permitted to use a material that is only rabbinically invalid in order to hold up the [[schach]] since the entire issue of maamid is only a gezerah, so the rabbis would never have instituted a gezerah l’gezerah. This is based on the opinion of the Ritva ([[Sukkah]] 11b). Rav Schachter (“Inyonei Sukkah”, min 44-6, 62-4) agreed, though he questioned it because this seems to fall into the category of a double d'rabbanan and not a gezerah l’gezerah. This is reiterated in [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/972040/rabbi-hershel-schachter/inyonei-succos-5781/ another shiur ("Inyonei Succos 5781" min 22-28)].</ref> | # One should ideally avoid [[tying]] the [[schach]] down with a material that would not serve as kosher [[schach]] if the [[schach]] would be unable to withstand regular wind independently.<ref> Be’tzel Ha’Chochma 5:44</ref> However, many poskim permit in all circumstances to tie down [[schach]] with material that is only invalid as [[schach]] mi’derabanan, such as natural twine.<ref>Rav Vosner cited in the Beit Levi Cheilek 4, pg. 23, Chazon Ovadia p. 30, Or Letzion 4:24:9, and [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/972040/rabbi-hershel-schachter/inyonei-succos-5781/ Rav Schachter]. Rav Ovadia Yosef (Chazon Ovadia p. 24-5) writes that it is permitted to use a material that is only rabbinically invalid in order to hold up the [[schach]] since the entire issue of maamid is only a gezerah, so the rabbis would never have instituted a gezerah l’gezerah. This is based on the opinion of the Ritva ([[Sukkah]] 11b). Rav Schachter (“Inyonei Sukkah”, min 44-6, 62-4) agreed, though he questioned it because this seems to fall into the category of a double d'rabbanan and not a gezerah l’gezerah. This is reiterated in [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/972040/rabbi-hershel-schachter/inyonei-succos-5781/ another shiur ("Inyonei Succos 5781" min 22-28)].</ref> | ||
