Materials to use for S'chach: Difference between revisions
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Materials to use for S'chach (view source)
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* Lastly, the Baal HaMeor ([[Sukkah]] 10a) holds like the rabbanan and we shouldn’t be concerned with either reason above. | * Lastly, the Baal HaMeor ([[Sukkah]] 10a) holds like the rabbanan and we shouldn’t be concerned with either reason above. | ||
* Even according to the first group of rishonim there are two limitations. The Ran writes that it is permitted to place [[schach]] on top of stone walls because no one uses stones for [[schach]] and no one will make a mistake to think that it is kosher. Additionally, the Ramban writes that placing [[schach]] on top of poles on top of a bed is permitted since the bed is acting as a ground for the [[sukkah]] and isn’t directly supporting the [[schach]]. | * Even according to the first group of rishonim there are two limitations. The Ran writes that it is permitted to place [[schach]] on top of stone walls because no one uses stones for [[schach]] and no one will make a mistake to think that it is kosher. Additionally, the Ramban writes that placing [[schach]] on top of poles on top of a bed is permitted since the bed is acting as a ground for the [[sukkah]] and isn’t directly supporting the [[schach]]. | ||
* What’s the halacha? Since Shulchan Aruch O.C. 630:13 holds like the Rosh, it would seem to be clear that is permitted to use items that are susceptible to tumah to hold up the [[schach]]. However, Shulchan Aruch O.C. 629:7 has a doubt whether it is permitted to place a ladder on top of [[schach]]. The Magen Avraham 629:9 suggests an explanation in which he forbids using a ladder that is susceptible to tumah lechatchila and would only permit it after the fact. Mishna Brurah 630:59 writes that it is permitted, but it is proper to be concerned for the opinions who are strict. </ref> According to most leading authorities, however, it's permissible to place [[S'chach]] on top of a material that's fit for [[S'chach]] which is in turn held up by something that's unfit for [[S'chach]]. Therefore, if one has a metal frame one should place wooden planks on the frame and then [[S'chach]] on top of it.<ref>Mishna Brurah 629:26, BeYitzchak Yikra (Rav Nevinsal) on that Mishna Brurah quoting Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Yabia Omer 10:46 and Chazon Ovadyah | * What’s the halacha? Since Shulchan Aruch O.C. 630:13 holds like the Rosh, it would seem to be clear that is permitted to use items that are susceptible to tumah to hold up the [[schach]]. However, Shulchan Aruch O.C. 629:7 has a doubt whether it is permitted to place a ladder on top of [[schach]]. The Magen Avraham 629:9 suggests an explanation in which he forbids using a ladder that is susceptible to tumah lechatchila and would only permit it after the fact. Mishna Brurah 630:59 writes that it is permitted, but it is proper to be concerned for the opinions who are strict. </ref> According to most leading authorities, however, it's permissible to place [[S'chach]] on top of a material that's fit for [[S'chach]] which is in turn held up by something that's unfit for [[S'chach]]. Therefore, if one has a metal frame one should place wooden planks on the frame and then [[S'chach]] on top of it.<ref>Mishna Brurah 629:26, BeYitzchak Yikra (Rav Nevinsal) on that Mishna Brurah quoting Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Rav Ovadia Yosef (Yabia Omer 10:46 and Chazon Ovadyah Sukkot pg 44), and Or Letzion 4:24:8 are lenient unlike the Chazon Ish 143:2-3. [http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/764662/Rabbi_Hershel_Schachter/%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%99_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%94%D7%9B'%D7%A4_%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%95%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%AA Rav Hershel Schachter] (62:30-66:15) also seems to be lenient. See Chelkat Yaakov 3:127, Minchat Shlomo 2:55, and Moadim U'zmanim 1:82. | ||
* The Magen Avraham 629:9 permits using metal nails to support the poles of the [[sukkah]] since they don’t directly support the [[schach]]. For example, the Bikkurei Yacov 629:15 writes that it is permitted to place [[schach]] on top of wooden poles on top of walls which are susceptible to impurity. The Chazon Ish (O.C. 143:2) argues since we can’t distinguish between different layers of [[schach]] and simply state the top layer of kosher [[schach]] is supported by another layer that is in turn supported by an item that is susceptible to tumah. Rav Schachter (“Inyonei [[Sukkah]]”, min 44-6, 62-4) noted that although the Chazon Ish’s argument is reasonable, the minhag follows the Magen Avraham and allows placing [[schach]] on top of planks on top of a metal frame.</ref> After the fact, if the [[schach]] was placed directly on metal, it is kosher.<ref> Mishna Brurah 629:22 and 630:58 </ref> | * The Magen Avraham 629:9 permits using metal nails to support the poles of the [[sukkah]] since they don’t directly support the [[schach]]. For example, the Bikkurei Yacov 629:15 writes that it is permitted to place [[schach]] on top of wooden poles on top of walls which are susceptible to impurity. The Chazon Ish (O.C. 143:2) argues since we can’t distinguish between different layers of [[schach]] and simply state the top layer of kosher [[schach]] is supported by another layer that is in turn supported by an item that is susceptible to tumah. Rav Schachter (“Inyonei [[Sukkah]]”, min 44-6, 62-4) noted that although the Chazon Ish’s argument is reasonable, the minhag follows the Magen Avraham and allows placing [[schach]] on top of planks on top of a metal frame.</ref> After the fact, if the [[schach]] was placed directly on metal, it is kosher.<ref> Mishna Brurah 629:22 and 630:58 </ref> | ||
# One should ideally avoid [[tying]] the [[schach]] down with a material that would not serve as kosher [[schach]] if the [[schach]] would be unable to withstand regular wind independently.<ref> Be’tzel Ha’Chochma 5:44</ref> However, many poskim | # One should ideally avoid [[tying]] the [[schach]] down with a material that would not serve as kosher [[schach]] if the [[schach]] would be unable to withstand regular wind independently.<ref> Be’tzel Ha’Chochma 5:44</ref> However, many poskim permit in all circumstances to tie down [[schach]] with material that is only invalid as [[schach]] mi’derabanan, such as natural twine.<ref>Rav Vosner cited in the Beit Levi Cheilek 4, pg. 23, Chazon Ovadia p. 30, Or Letzion 4:24:9, and [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/972040/rabbi-hershel-schachter/inyonei-succos-5781/ Rav Schachter]. Rav Ovadia Yosef (Chazon Ovadia p. 24-5) writes that it is permitted to use a material that is only rabbinically invalid in order to hold up the [[schach]] since the entire issue of maamid is only a gezerah, so the rabbis would never have instituted a gezerah l’gezerah. This is based on the opinion of the Ritva ([[Sukkah]] 11b). Rav Schachter (“Inyonei Sukkah”, min 44-6, 62-4) agreed, though he questioned it because this seems to fall into the category of a double d'rabbanan and not a gezerah l’gezerah. This is reiterated in [https://www.yutorah.org/sidebar/lecture.cfm/972040/rabbi-hershel-schachter/inyonei-succos-5781/ another shiur ("Inyonei Succos 5781" min 22-28)].</ref> | ||
#Using zip-ties to tie down the schach so that they don't blow away is a problem if otherwise the schach would blow away in a normal wind. After the fact, the sukkah is still acceptable, though it should be avoided. If the schach is secure enough that it'll stay for a normal wind then using the zip-ties is totally fine since it is only adding extra security to avoid uncommon winds.<ref> | |||
[https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/818822/rabbi-aryeh-lebowitz/ten-minute-halacha-holding-the-schach-down-with-zipties/ Rav Aryeh Lebowitz] explains that the only issue of zip ties is maamid since it enables the schach to be held in place and not blow away. The entire issue of maamid is rabbinic and initially an issue but not after the fact. If the schach would be able to withstand normal winds then you can add the zip ties to add security so it doesn't blow off in an uncommon wind (ruach sheino metzuya). [https://www.star-k.org/articles/articles/seasonal/431/guide-to-star-k-certified-schach/ Star-K] and [https://oukosher.org/blog/consumer-news/ou-kosher-experts-answer-sukkot-questons-sukkah-schach-eating-sukkah/ OU] come to the same conclusion.</ref> | |||
# One shouldn't use [[schach]] with a foul odor or whose leaves are falling off because there is a concern that the person may come to leave his [[sukkah]] because of the smell or the leaves falling on him.<ref> Rambam ([[Sukkah]] 5:1), Shulchan Aruch O.C. 629:14, Chazon Ovadia pg. 30, Magen Avraham 629:15, Kaf Hachaim 639:81 </ref> After the fact, it is valid.<ref>Rambam ([[Sukkah]] 5:1)</ref> | # One shouldn't use [[schach]] with a foul odor or whose leaves are falling off because there is a concern that the person may come to leave his [[sukkah]] because of the smell or the leaves falling on him.<ref> Rambam ([[Sukkah]] 5:1), Shulchan Aruch O.C. 629:14, Chazon Ovadia pg. 30, Magen Avraham 629:15, Kaf Hachaim 639:81 </ref> After the fact, it is valid.<ref>Rambam ([[Sukkah]] 5:1)</ref> | ||
