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Making a meal on Mezonot: Difference between revisions
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# According to Ashkenazim if one makes a meal out of Pas HaBah BeKisnin one should wash with a bracha (of Al [[Netilat Yadayim]]) and make HaMotzei. However, Sephardim hold that one should wash without a bracha but one would have what to rely on to wash with a bracha. <ref>Mishna Brurah 158:8, Yalkut Yosef (Kitzur S”A 168:8) </ref> | # According to Ashkenazim if one makes a meal out of Pas HaBah BeKisnin one should wash with a bracha (of Al [[Netilat Yadayim]]) and make HaMotzei. However, Sephardim hold that one should wash without a bracha but one would have what to rely on to wash with a bracha. <ref>Mishna Brurah 158:8, Yalkut Yosef (Kitzur S”A 168:8) </ref> | ||
===Amount of a meal when Pas Haba Bekisnin is eaten alone=== | ===Amount of a meal when Pas Haba Bekisnin is eaten alone=== | ||
##According to Ashkenazim, if one eats less than 8 kezaytim one should certainly make a Mezonot. If one eats the amount of a regular meal one should make HaMotzei. [For a regular person if one eats 280 grams of regular cake one certainly is having the amount of a regular meal and could make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon.] Preferably, one shouldn't have in between 8 Kezayitim and the amount of a regular meal. After the fact (if one ate between 8 Kezayitim and a definite meal), if one is not full make Al HaMichya and if one is full make Birkat HaMazon, yet, in such a case it’s preferable to hear Birkat HaMazon (from someone who’s obligated to make Birkat HaMazon) or to eat bread (making HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon). [For background see footnote.]<ref>See next note </ref> | ##According to Ashkenazim, if one eats less than 8 kezaytim one should certainly make a Mezonot. If one eats the amount of a regular meal one should make HaMotzei. [For a regular person if one eats 280 grams of regular cake one certainly is having the amount of a regular meal and could make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon.] Preferably, one shouldn't have in between 8 Kezayitim and the amount of a regular meal. After the fact (if one ate between 8 Kezayitim and a definite meal), if one is not full make Al HaMichya and if one is full make Birkat HaMazon, yet, in such a case it’s preferable to hear [[Birkat HaMazon]] (from someone who’s obligated to make Birkat HaMazon) or to eat bread (making HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon). [For background see footnote.]<ref>See next note </ref> | ||
##According to Sephardim, if one ate less than 6 Kezaytim one should make a Mezonot. If one eats more than 8 Kezayitim one should make HaMotzei. Preferably one shoudln't eat between 6 and 8 Kezaytim and if one did then one should just make Al HaMichya. [For background see footnote.]<ref> | ##According to Sephardim, if one ate less than 6 Kezaytim one should make a Mezonot. If one eats more than 8 Kezayitim one should make HaMotzei. Preferably one shoudln't eat between 6 and 8 Kezaytim and if one did then one should just make Al HaMichya. [For background see footnote.]<ref> | ||
'''What’s the Bracha on Pas HaBah Bekisnin?''' | '''What’s the Bracha on Pas HaBah Bekisnin?''' | ||
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'''What is considered a meal?''' | '''What is considered a meal?''' | ||
* The Bet Yosef 168:6 quoting the Shibolei HaLeket (Siman 159), Magan Avraham 168:13, and Chaye Adam 54:14 in name of the Gra hold that the amount of meal for this halacha is the amount people normally eat at a regular meal in the morning and evening. (Mishna Brurah 168:24 and Shaar HaTzion 19 also quote the Sefer Eshkol and Shagat Aryeh). However, the Birkei Yosef 186:4 and Kaf HaChaim 168:45 argue that the amount of a meal in this context is the same as a meal for Eruv Chatzerot which is either 3 or 4 KeBaytzim. | * The Bet Yosef 168:6 quoting the Shibolei HaLeket (Siman 159), Magan Avraham 168:13, and Chaye Adam 54:14 in name of the Gra hold that the amount of meal for this halacha is the amount people normally eat at a regular meal in the morning and evening. (Mishna Brurah 168:24 and Shaar HaTzion 19 also quote the Sefer Eshkol and Shagat Aryeh). However, the Birkei Yosef 186:4 and Kaf HaChaim 168:45 argue that the amount of a meal in this context is the same as a meal for Eruv Chatzerot which is either 3 or 4 KeBaytzim. | ||
* Ashkenazim: The Mishna Brurah 168:24 rules that the halacha follows the opinion that a meal is considered by a regular meal people eat but adds that it's proper to be strict for those who are strict to require 4 KeBaytzim (meaning, that preferably one should only eat less than 8 Kezayitim or more than the amount of a regular meal, Vezot HaBracha pg 29). VeZot HaBracha (chap 4, pg 31) writes that according to his calculation for a regular person for regular cake if one eats less than 230 grams that is considered a snack, if one eat more than 280 grams that is certainly a meal. He continues that if one did eat in between 8 Kezayitim and a certain meal, if one is not full make Al HaMichya and if one is full make Birkat HaMazon, yet, in such a case it’s preferable to hear Birkat HaMazon (from someone who’s obligated to make Birkat HaMazon) or to eat bread (making HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon). | * Ashkenazim: The Mishna Brurah 168:24 rules that the halacha follows the opinion that a meal is considered by a regular meal people eat but adds that it's proper to be strict for those who are strict to require 4 KeBaytzim (meaning, that preferably one should only eat less than 8 Kezayitim or more than the amount of a regular meal, Vezot HaBracha pg 29). VeZot HaBracha (chap 4, pg 31) writes that according to his calculation for a regular person for regular cake if one eats less than 230 grams that is considered a snack, if one eat more than 280 grams that is certainly a meal. He continues that if one did eat in between 8 Kezayitim and a certain meal, if one is not full make Al HaMichya and if one is full make Birkat HaMazon, yet, in such a case it’s preferable to hear [[Birkat HaMazon]] (from someone who’s obligated to make Birkat HaMazon) or to eat bread (making HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon). | ||
* Sephardim: Halacha Brurah 168:16 (explained in Otzorot Yosef Siman 9) writes that Sephardim hold like the Chida that if one ate 8 Kezayitim one should make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon, and if one ate less than that one should make Mezonot and Al HaMichya but it's preferable that one shouldn't eat in between 6 and 8 Kezayitim. </ref> | * Sephardim: Halacha Brurah 168:16 (explained in Otzorot Yosef Siman 9) writes that Sephardim hold like the Chida that if one ate 8 Kezayitim one should make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon, and if one ate less than that one should make Mezonot and Al HaMichya but it's preferable that one shouldn't eat in between 6 and 8 Kezayitim. </ref> | ||
===Amount of a meal when eaten together with other foods=== | ===Amount of a meal when eaten together with other foods=== | ||
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==Keviut Seduah on Shabbat== | ==Keviut Seduah on Shabbat== | ||
#There’s no difference between [[Shabbat]] and the rest of the week regarding the status of the Pat habah BeKisnin. <ref> Kaf HaChaim 168:48. </ref> | #There’s no difference between [[Shabbat]] and the rest of the week regarding the status of the Pat habah BeKisnin. <ref> Kaf HaChaim 168:48. </ref> | ||
# If a Sephardi is eating at an Ashkenazic family who is having sweet challah for Hamotzei, ideally, one should eat 8 or at least 6 kezaytim of mezonot in order to be able to make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon, however, since that's usually very difficult there is what to rely on to make a HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon even if one only eats a Kezayit of the sweet Challah. <ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 39) in name of Rav Mordechai Eliyahu and Rav Elyashiv paskening for Sephardim</ref> | # If a Sephardi is eating at an Ashkenazic family who is having sweet challah for Hamotzei, ideally, one should eat 8 or at least 6 kezaytim of mezonot in order to be able to make HaMotzei and Birkat HaMazon, however, since that's usually very difficult there is what to rely on to make a HaMotzei and [[Birkat HaMazon]] even if one only eats a Kezayit of the sweet Challah. <ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 39) in name of Rav Mordechai Eliyahu and Rav Elyashiv paskening for Sephardim</ref> | ||
==Related Topics== | ==Related Topics== | ||
[[Pas Haba Bekisnin]] | [[Pas Haba Bekisnin]] | ||
