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Making a meal on Mezonot: Difference between revisions
From Halachipedia
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==What is considered a meal for Pas Habah Bekisnin?== | ==What is considered a meal for Pas Habah Bekisnin?== | ||
===Timing=== | ===Timing=== | ||
# All food that’s eaten during a meal is included as long as one | # All food that’s eaten during a meal is included as long as one [[Kezayit]] of Pas HaBah Bekisnin is eaten within Kedi Achilat Pras (4 minutes). <ref> The Kaf HaChaim and Sh”t Korban Eshe write that one needs to have all of the 4 Kebayitzim in one Kedi Achilat Pras. However, Yalkut Yosef (Birkat HaMazon pg 130) writes that the strict halacha only requires that one have one Kezayit in a Kedi Achilat Pras. Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 27) agrees with Yalkut Yosef. </ref> | ||
===Washing=== | ===Washing=== | ||
# According to Ashkenazim if one makes a meal out of Pas HaBah BeKisnin one should wash with a bracha (of Al Netilat Yadayim) and make HaMotzei. However, Sephardim hold that one should wash without a bracha but one would have what to rely on to wash with a bracha. <ref>Mishna Brurah 158:8, Yalkut Yosef (Kitzur S”A 168:8) </ref> | # According to Ashkenazim if one makes a meal out of Pas HaBah BeKisnin one should wash with a bracha (of Al Netilat Yadayim) and make HaMotzei. However, Sephardim hold that one should wash without a bracha but one would have what to rely on to wash with a bracha. <ref>Mishna Brurah 158:8, Yalkut Yosef (Kitzur S”A 168:8) </ref> | ||
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===Amount of a meal when eaten together with other foods=== | ===Amount of a meal when eaten together with other foods=== | ||
# According to Sephardim even if Pas Haba BeKisnin is eaten with other foods those other foods are not taken into consideration when considering the amount of a meal. <ref>Kaf HaChaim 168:47 rules against the Magan Avraham 168:13 and says that S”A implies that one must be the amount of a meal from the Pat itself. </ref> However, according to Ashkenazim the following laws apply: | # According to Sephardim even if Pas Haba BeKisnin is eaten with other foods those other foods are not taken into consideration when considering the amount of a meal. <ref>Kaf HaChaim 168:47 rules against the Magan Avraham 168:13 and says that S”A implies that one must be the amount of a meal from the Pat itself. </ref> However, according to Ashkenazim the following laws apply: | ||
# One shouldn’t eat a | # One shouldn’t eat a [[Kezayit]] of Pas HaBah Bekisnin together with other foods (any food even if it’s not Melaftim Et HaPat) if altogether there’s a shuir of 8 [[Kezayit]]im whether one has in mind to establish a meal or not. <ref> Mishna Brurah 168:24, Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 32-3). Vezot HaBracha (pg 33) adds that there’s what to rely on to eat less than 8 [[Kezayit]]im of Pas HaBah Bekisnin together with food that’s not Melafet HaPat (rice, couscous, noodles, fruit, or sweets but not meat, fish, cheese, or vegetables) and make a Mezonot and Al HaMichya. </ref> | ||
# A practical advice is to eat the Pas HaBah Bekisnin, make Al Hamichya, and then eat the other foods, or eat the other foods, make Bracha Achrona, and then eat the Pas HaBah Bekisnin. However, this advice isn’t applicable if the other foods include mezonot (such as rice or noodles) because of making an unnecessary Bracha. <ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 33). Vezot HaBracha (Birur 7 pg 234) adds that if the other foods are Tavshil Mezonot (like rice and noodles) and the above advice isn’t applicable, there’s what to rely on to eat Pas HaBah Bekisnin at the end of the meal after one ate the other foods (without making a Bracha achrona on the other foods). </ref> | # A practical advice is to eat the Pas HaBah Bekisnin, make Al Hamichya, and then eat the other foods, or eat the other foods, make Bracha Achrona, and then eat the Pas HaBah Bekisnin. However, this advice isn’t applicable if the other foods include mezonot (such as rice or noodles) because of making an unnecessary Bracha. <ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 33). Vezot HaBracha (Birur 7 pg 234) adds that if the other foods are Tavshil Mezonot (like rice and noodles) and the above advice isn’t applicable, there’s what to rely on to eat Pas HaBah Bekisnin at the end of the meal after one ate the other foods (without making a Bracha achrona on the other foods). </ref> | ||
# After the fact, if one ate less than 8 | # After the fact, if one ate less than 8 [[Kezayit]]im of Pas HaBah Bekisnin even if one’s full, one should make an Al Hamichya, Similarly, if one ate more than 8 kezaytim of Pas HaBah Bekisnin together with foods that don’t accompany bread (such as farfel, rice, fruit, or sweets) and if full from everything together, one should make a Al HaMichya unless one was full from the Pas HaBah Bekisnin alone in which case one should make Birkat HaMazon. If one ate more than 8 kezaytim of Pas HaBah Bekisnin together with foods that accompany bread (such as meat, fish, cheese, or vegetables) and if full from everything together, one should make Birkat HaMazon. <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 33 note 11) </ref> | ||
# The only way to make a HaMotzei without a doubt is to:1)eat bread, 2)have 20 kezaytim of Pas HaBah Bekisnin alone, or 3)have 8 kezaytim of Pas HaBah Bekisnin together with foods that accompany bread (such as meat, fish, cheese, vegetables). <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 31 and pg 33 note 11) </ref> | # The only way to make a HaMotzei without a doubt is to:1)eat bread, 2)have 20 kezaytim of Pas HaBah Bekisnin alone, or 3)have 8 kezaytim of Pas HaBah Bekisnin together with foods that accompany bread (such as meat, fish, cheese, vegetables). <Ref> Vezot HaBracha (Chapter 4, pg 31 and pg 33 note 11) </ref> | ||
