Losh: Difference between revisions
From Halachipedia
→Practical Examples
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# The prohibition of [[kneading]] does not apply to large chunks of food which will be distinct even after being mixed. <Ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 8:4, [[Shabbos]] Kitchen (Rabbi Simcha Cohen, chap 11, pg 143) </ref> | # The prohibition of [[kneading]] does not apply to large chunks of food which will be distinct even after being mixed. <Ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 8:4, [[Shabbos]] Kitchen (Rabbi Simcha Cohen, chap 11, pg 143) </ref> | ||
## For example, one may dress a salad (with oil, vinegar, mayonnaise, and seasoning) if the vegetables are slightly large pieces. <Ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 8:4 explains that since the ingredients don't stick together into one dough. [[Shabbos]] Kitchen (Rabbi Simcha Cohen, chap 11, pg 143) agrees. </ref> | ## For example, one may dress a salad (with oil, vinegar, mayonnaise, and seasoning) if the vegetables are slightly large pieces. <Ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata 8:4 explains that since the ingredients don't stick together into one dough. [[Shabbos]] Kitchen (Rabbi Simcha Cohen, chap 11, pg 143) agrees. </ref> | ||
===Making Egg Salad=== | ===Making Egg Salad, Tuna Salad, or Potato Salad=== | ||
# To avoid all issues it’s preferable to make egg salad before [[Shabbat]]. However, if one didn’t, one may do so on [[Shabbat]] in the following manner: One may peel the eggs right before the meal and then mash them even with the prongs of a fork. Then peel the onions right before the meal and cut them in slightly large pieces and then mix it. The minhag is to mix in oil without any variations, however, it’s proper to make above variations (in order of putting in ingredients and way of mixing). <Ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata (in new editions 8:28). [https://shulchanaruchharav.com/halacha/mixing-mayonnaise-with-tuna-or-egg-on-shabbos/ Rabbi Yakov Goldstein on shulchanaruchharov.com] writes that one should use a shinuy when making egg salad on Shabbat.</ref> | #When making salads with mayonnaise, such as egg salad or mayonnaise with vegetables (e.g. potato salad), one should first put in the mayonnaise and then the salad since that is different than the way one would do it during the week. Also, one should mix with a [[shinuy]] such as criss-cross and not in a circle.<ref>Or Letzion 2:33:3 writes that when making salad with mayonnaise one should first put in the mayonnaise and then the salad since that is different than the way one would do it during the week. Also, one should mix with a shinuy such as criss cross and not in a circle. [http://www.cckollel.org/parsha_encounters/5769/devarim_69.pdf Rabbi Langer (Chicago Kollel Devarim 5769)] cites Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchata 8:33 as holding that preferably a person should do both shinuyim when making egg or tuna salad.</ref> Some say that it isn't necessary to make a shinuy in the pouring.<ref>Orchot Shabbat 1:6:18 cites the Shevitat Hashabbat (Intro to Losh n. 6) who limits losh to water or liquids that permeate the solids to consolidate them and it wouldn't apply to thick fatty liquids such as mayonnaise. Orchot Shabbat is willing to rely on this opinion with respect to pour the ingredients together since anyway we really hold like the opinion that losh is violating by kneading and not pouring (Rabbi Yosi Bar Yehuda). He concludes that Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach liked this approach.</ref> | ||
# To avoid all issues it’s preferable to make egg salad before [[Shabbat]]. However, if one didn’t, one may do so on [[Shabbat]] in the following manner: One may peel the eggs right before the meal and then mash them even with the prongs of a fork. Then peel the onions right before the meal and cut them in slightly large pieces and then mix them it. The minhag is to mix in oil without any variations, however, it’s proper to make above variations (in order of putting in ingredients and way of mixing). <Ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata (in new editions 8:28). [https://shulchanaruchharav.com/halacha/mixing-mayonnaise-with-tuna-or-egg-on-shabbos/ Rabbi Yakov Goldstein on shulchanaruchharov.com] writes that one should use a shinuy when making egg salad on Shabbat.</ref> | |||
## One can mix in the cooked potatoes using the handle of a fork, or if the potatoes are very soft because of the [[cooking]] one may mix it with the prongs of the fork. <Ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata (in new editions 8:28) </ref> | ## One can mix in the cooked potatoes using the handle of a fork, or if the potatoes are very soft because of the [[cooking]] one may mix it with the prongs of the fork. <Ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata (in new editions 8:28) </ref> | ||
## If an egg shell got mixed into the salad one may only remove it together with a bit of other food, but preferably one shouldn’t remove the egg shell but just eat around it. <Ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata (in new editions 8:28) </ref> See [[Borer]]. | ## If an egg shell got mixed into the salad one may only remove it together with a bit of other food, but preferably one shouldn’t remove the egg shell but just eat around it. <Ref>Shemirat Shabbat KeHilchata (in new editions 8:28) </ref> See [[Borer]]. | ||
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# When one substance becomes completely absorbed into the other so that there isn't a noticeable difference in the consistency of the liquid, there is no problem of lisha. For example, one may add instant coffee or hot cocoa to a cup of hot water (as long as there is no problem of bishul).<ref> Chazon Ish 58:9, Sh”t Iggerot Moshe OC 4:74: Losh 1, Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchita 8:29 </ref> | # When one substance becomes completely absorbed into the other so that there isn't a noticeable difference in the consistency of the liquid, there is no problem of lisha. For example, one may add instant coffee or hot cocoa to a cup of hot water (as long as there is no problem of bishul).<ref> Chazon Ish 58:9, Sh”t Iggerot Moshe OC 4:74: Losh 1, Shemirat Shabbat Kehilchita 8:29 </ref> | ||
=== | ===Guacamole=== | ||
#If one wants to make fresh guacamole on Shabbos one should mash the avocado with the handle of the spoon or the like. To add in onions, tomatoes, lemon juice, or spices and avoid the issue of losh, one would have to use a double shinui. That is, one should put in the lemon juice or spices first and then the avocado and mix it with the back of a spoon or with a criss-cross action.<ref>Or Letzion 2:33:5, [http://www.eretzhemdah.org/newsletterArticle.asp?lang=en&pageid=48&cat=7&newsletter=1058&article=4004 Rav Daniel Mann]</ref> | #If one wants to make fresh guacamole on Shabbos one should mash the avocado with the handle of the spoon or the like. To add in onions, tomatoes, lemon juice, or spices and avoid the issue of losh, one would have to use a double shinui. That is, one should put in the lemon juice or spices first and then the avocado and mix it with the back of a spoon or with a criss-cross action.<ref>Or Letzion 2:33:5, [http://www.eretzhemdah.org/newsletterArticle.asp?lang=en&pageid=48&cat=7&newsletter=1058&article=4004 Rav Daniel Mann]</ref> | ||
===Other Examples=== | ===Other Examples=== | ||
# It is forbidden to pour water on sand. Therefore, children playing in a sandbox should not pour water into it.<ref> Rambam (Shabbos 8:16) based on the | # It is forbidden to pour water on sand. Therefore, children playing in a sandbox should not pour water into it.<ref> Rambam (Shabbos 8:16) based on the Gemara Shabbos 18a writes that kneading water and dirt is forbidden from the torah as a tolada of losh. Based on that, Shemirat Shabbos KeHilchata 16:4, Children in Halacha (Rabbi Simcha Bunim, pg 137-8), and 39 Melachos (Rabbi Ribiat, vol 2: pg 253-254) write that children who are playing in a sandbox may not pour water into it. <br/> The Gemara (155b) cites a dispute as to when one would have violated losh. According to Rebbi, pouring water into flour is enough, while according to Rabbi Yosi bar Yehuda, one isn’t liable until he kneads them together to form dough. The Rif (67b), the Rambam (21:34) and the Rosh (24:3) rule like R’ Yosi bar Yehuda that it is only forbidden midirabanan to pour water without mixing it, while the Yereim (Ch. 274, 133b), the Teruma (Ch. 220), the Semag (Prohibition 65, lash) and the Semak (Ch. 280) hold like Rebbe. The primary opinion of Shulchan Aruch O.C. 321:16 is like R’ Yosi, however, he also cites the opinion of Rebbi. Chacham Ovadia Yosef (Livyat Chen 67) and Menuchat Ahava 2:9:9 are lenient. Rama is strict and this view is accepted by the Ben Ish Chai (Mishpatim 18) and Kaf Hachayim (324:14).</ref> | ||
</ref> | # If one needs to wash his hands or urinate on the ground, he should look for an area without any loose sand or dirt. In a case of an extenuating circumstance one may be lenient.<ref> The Mishna Brurah 321:57 cites the Magen Avraham that it is forbidden to urinate on mud because of losh and the same would be true of loose dirt or sand, even though it is unintended. He also cites the Beit Meir who is lenient in a case of need, to urinate even upon mud since he rules like Rabbi Yosi Bar Yehuda (cited in Gemara Shabbat 155b) that it is only derabanan if you don't mix but merely pour water. Mishna Brurah concludes that one may be lenient in case of need when the mud doesn’t belong to you, since one doesn’t benefit from the dirt mixing with the liquid. Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 80:14 and Menuchat Ahava 2:9:2 p. 287 agree that if possible one should be careful. See also Ketzot Hashulchan 130:8.</ref> | ||
# If one needs to wash his hands or urinate on the ground, he should look for an area without any loose sand or dirt. In case of | |||
==Links== | ==Links== | ||
