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Klalei HaTalmud: Difference between revisions
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# The Rif and Rosh point out that this is not true when Rebbi disagrees with his father, Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel.<ref>Korban Netanel (Klalim 11)</ref> | # The Rif and Rosh point out that this is not true when Rebbi disagrees with his father, Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel.<ref>Korban Netanel (Klalim 11)</ref> | ||
=== Amoraim === | === Amoraim === | ||
# Amoraim often elucidate the shitot of Tannaim in Mishnayot even if the Halacha doesn't follow them, so there's no proof to be | # Amoraim often elucidate the shitot of Tannaim in Mishnayot even if the Halacha doesn't follow them, so there's no proof to be brought from the fact that the view of a certain Tanna in a Mishnah is elucidated to prove which the Halacha should follow. However, proof may be brought from such an instance with respect to a Tanna in a Baraita or another Amora.<ref>Korban Netanel (Klalim 13). See Yad Malachi (Klalei HaTalmud 23, 355) who seems to disagree about elucidating against one's own position.</ref> | ||
# It's usually assumed that Amoraim cannot argue on Tannaim,<ref>Kessef Mishneh (Hilchot Mamrim 2:1), Klalei HaGemara on Halichot Olam (2:2:10), Chazon Ish (Kovetz Iggerot vol. 2 Iggeret 24, Orchot Ish page 186)</ref> but some say it's merely an honorary non Halachic distinction.<ref>Biur HaGra (Choshen Mishpat 25:6), See Tosafot (Ketubot 8a s.v. Rav Tanna Hu uPalig) and Kovetz Shiurim (Bava Batra 633) who says similarly in the name of Reb Chaim Soloveitchik. [http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/891586/rabbi-hershel-schachter/berachos-54-23b-24a-sitting-next-to-tefillin-amoraim-vs-tannaim-libo-roeh-es-haervah-hafrashas-terumah-mitzvah-or-mattir-ervas-tinok-and-akum/ Rav Hershel Schachter] takes this stance, as well. Rav Elchanan Wasserman also engaged the Chazon Ish in correspondence on this issue, after he wrote in Kuntress Divrei Sofrim (Siman 2, see Da'at Sofrim ad loc) that Chatimat HaMishnah and HaTalmud were enabled by the gathering of all the Chachmei HaDor (Kibutz Chachamim), which gave them the status of Beit Din HaGadol. The latter took an opposing view, as it discounted the inherent loftiness of the individual Chachamim and implied there was little different between them and later generations. (Kovetz Iggerot ibid). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlIjFgOCG1s Rav Asher Weiss] finds grounding for Reb Chaim in the Meiri, but he believes that given the Rambam says one cannot disagree without confidently understanding the difficult opinion at hand, there are just some generations that were so far from the previous one that a line must be drawn. See also [http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/873470/rabbi-aryeh-lebowitz/intergenerational-debate-r-asher-weiss-on-disagreements-between-tannaim-amoraim-rishonim-acharonim/ Rav Aryeh Lebowitz's shiur] on the topic.</ref> | # It's usually assumed that Amoraim cannot argue on Tannaim,<ref>Kessef Mishneh (Hilchot Mamrim 2:1), Klalei HaGemara on Halichot Olam (2:2:10), Chazon Ish (Kovetz Iggerot vol. 2 Iggeret 24, Orchot Ish page 186)</ref> but some say it's merely an honorary non Halachic distinction.<ref>Biur HaGra (Choshen Mishpat 25:6), See Tosafot (Ketubot 8a s.v. Rav Tanna Hu uPalig) and Kovetz Shiurim (Bava Batra 633) who says similarly in the name of Reb Chaim Soloveitchik. [http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/891586/rabbi-hershel-schachter/berachos-54-23b-24a-sitting-next-to-tefillin-amoraim-vs-tannaim-libo-roeh-es-haervah-hafrashas-terumah-mitzvah-or-mattir-ervas-tinok-and-akum/ Rav Hershel Schachter] takes this stance, as well. Rav Elchanan Wasserman also engaged the Chazon Ish in correspondence on this issue, after he wrote in Kuntress Divrei Sofrim (Siman 2, see Da'at Sofrim ad loc) that Chatimat HaMishnah and HaTalmud were enabled by the gathering of all the Chachmei HaDor (Kibutz Chachamim), which gave them the status of Beit Din HaGadol. The latter took an opposing view, as it discounted the inherent loftiness of the individual Chachamim and implied there was little different between them and later generations. (Kovetz Iggerot ibid). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlIjFgOCG1s Rav Asher Weiss] finds grounding for Reb Chaim in the Meiri, but he believes that given the Rambam says one cannot disagree without confidently understanding the difficult opinion at hand, there are just some generations that were so far from the previous one that a line must be drawn. See also [http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/873470/rabbi-aryeh-lebowitz/intergenerational-debate-r-asher-weiss-on-disagreements-between-tannaim-amoraim-rishonim-acharonim/ Rav Aryeh Lebowitz's shiur] on the topic.</ref> | ||
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# Rav vs. Rabbi Yochanan, the Halacha follows Rabbi Yochanan.<ref>Yad Malachi (Klalei HaTalmud 556)</ref> | # Rav vs. Rabbi Yochanan, the Halacha follows Rabbi Yochanan.<ref>Yad Malachi (Klalei HaTalmud 556)</ref> | ||
# According to the Rif, this rule only applies with Rabbi Yochanan only disputes Rav's position, but if he's disputing both Rav and Shmuel, then the Halacha follows Rav and Shmuel, whereas the Rosh rules that the rule is true in any case.<ref>Korban Netanel (Klalim 15), Yad Malachi (Klalei HaTalmud 556)</ref> | # According to the Rif, this rule only applies with Rabbi Yochanan only disputes Rav's position, but if he's disputing both Rav and Shmuel, then the Halacha follows Rav and Shmuel, whereas the Rosh rules that the rule is true in any case.<ref>Korban Netanel (Klalim 15), Yad Malachi (Klalei HaTalmud 556)</ref> | ||
== Double Machaloket == | |||
# When Rav Yochanan and Resh Lakish dispute Rami Bar Chammah and Rav Yirmiyah, the Halacha follows the former group.<ref>Yad Malachi (Klalei HaTalmud 301)</ref> | |||
==== Maaseh Rav ==== | ==== Maaseh Rav ==== | ||
