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Kiddush: Difference between revisions

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# If one takes [[Shabbat]] upon oneself early, it's forbidden to eat before making Kiddish. <ref> Magan Avraham in name of the Bach writes that it's forbidden to eat before making Kiddish if one accepted [[Shabbat]] early.  </ref> Therefore, one can accept [[Shabbat]] early, make Kiddish, and eat even before praying Arvit as long as it's not within a half hour of the time to say Arvit. <ref> Magan Avraham 271:5 writes that one is allowed to accept [[Shabbat]] early, and then make Kiddish to permit eating, all before praying Arvit. Beir Heitev 271:4 quotes this as halacha. Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:4 and Mishna Brurah 271:11 limit the permit to eat to when one is more than a half hour before nightfall as is the halacha everyday of not eating before Arvit. </ref>
# If one takes [[Shabbat]] upon oneself early, it's forbidden to eat before making Kiddish. <ref> Magan Avraham in name of the Bach writes that it's forbidden to eat before making Kiddish if one accepted [[Shabbat]] early.  </ref> Therefore, one can accept [[Shabbat]] early, make Kiddish, and eat even before praying Arvit as long as it's not within a half hour of the time to say Arvit. <ref> Magan Avraham 271:5 writes that one is allowed to accept [[Shabbat]] early, and then make Kiddish to permit eating, all before praying Arvit. Beir Heitev 271:4 quotes this as halacha. Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:4 and Mishna Brurah 271:11 limit the permit to eat to when one is more than a half hour before nightfall as is the halacha everyday of not eating before Arvit. </ref>
# If one doesn't pray or take [[Shabbat]] upon oneself early The time that the probition begins from Ben HaShemashot. <ref> Magan Avraham 271, Mishna Berurah 271:11 and Ben Ish Chai Beresheet 17 write that the prohibition begins at Ben HaShemashot. </ref>  
# If one doesn't pray or take [[Shabbat]] upon oneself early The time that the probition begins from Ben HaShemashot. <ref> Magan Avraham 271, Mishna Berurah 271:11 and Ben Ish Chai Beresheet 17 write that the prohibition begins at Ben HaShemashot. </ref>  
# Rinsing out one's mouth is permitted since one doesn't intend to get benefit from the water. <ref> Magan Avraham 271:5 writes that rinsing out one's mouth is permitted as it isn't called drinking. So rule the Bear Hetiev 271:4. Mishna Brurah. However, Ben Ish Chai Beresheet 17 is more stringent and only permits if one was fasting and only during Ben HaShemashot. </ref>
# Rinsing out one's mouth is permitted since one doesn't intend to get benefit from the water. <ref> Magan Avraham 271:5 writes that rinsing out one's mouth is permitted as it isn't called drinking. Bear Hetiev 271:4 and Mishna Brurah agree. However, Ben Ish Chai Beresheet 17 is more stringent and only permits if one was fasting and only during Ben HaShemashot. </ref>


== Timing==
== Timing==
#Ideally, one should say Kiddush as soon as one gets home from Shul on Friday night.<ref> Pesachim 106a learns that the primary way to do Kiddish, a remembrance of [[Shabbat]] is with wine on Friday night because that's the beginning of the day (in the Jewish calendar). Shulchan Aruch, O”C 271:1 </ref>  
#Ideally, one should say Kiddush as soon as one gets home from Shul on Friday night.<ref> Pesachim 106a learns that the primary way to do Kiddish, a remembrance of [[Shabbat]] is with wine on Friday night because that's the beginning of the day (in the Jewish calendar). Shulchan Aruch, O”C 271:1 </ref>  
#One can say Kiddish before nightfall if one accepts upon oneself [[Shabbat]] early. <ref> Magan Avraham writes that Kiddish can be made during the day if one accepts upon oneself [[Shabbat]] early. So rule the achronim including Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:2 and Mishna Brurah 271:11 concur. </ref>
#One can say Kiddish before nightfall if one accepts upon oneself [[Shabbat]] early. <ref> Magan Avraham writes that Kiddish can be made during the day if one accepts upon oneself [[Shabbat]] early. Many achronim including Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:2 and Mishna Brurah 271:11 concur. </ref>
#If one missed Kiddush on Friday night, it can and should be made up at any point during [[Shabbat]] day, which means that one would recite the longer Friday-night version of Kiddush on [[Shabbat]] day. <ref> The Gemara Pesachim 105a rules that if one missed saying Kiddish on Friday night one can make it up through the rest of [[Shabbat]]. Rambam (Hilchot [[Shabbat]] 29:4), Tur and S"A 271:8 rule like the gemara pesachim. This is agree upon by the achronim including Aruch HaShulchan 271:21, Ben Ish Hai (Bereshit 19), and Hacham Ovadia Yosef, in Halichot Olam. Aruch HaShulchan and Ben Ish Chai write that even if the person ate intentionally one should still make Kiddish the next day. Additionally, achronim including the Chaye Adam  ([[Shabbat]] 6:2), Aruch HaShulchan 271:21, and Ben Ish Chai (Beresheet 19) hold that we don't say Vayichulu if the Kiddish is said during the day since Vayichulu was instituted for the incoming of [[Shabbat]]. [This finds it's source in the Magid Mishna (Hilchot [[Shabbat]] 29:4).] </ref>
#If one missed Kiddush on Friday night, it can and should be made up at any point during [[Shabbat]] day, which means that one would recite the longer Friday-night version of Kiddush on [[Shabbat]] day. <ref> The Gemara Pesachim 105a rules that if one missed saying Kiddish on Friday night one can make it up through the rest of [[Shabbat]]. Rambam (Hilchot [[Shabbat]] 29:4), Tur and S"A 271:8 rule like the gemara pesachim. This is agree upon by the achronim including Aruch HaShulchan 271:21, Ben Ish Hai (Bereshit 19), and Hacham Ovadia Yosef, in Halichot Olam. Aruch HaShulchan and Ben Ish Chai write that even if the person ate intentionally one should still make Kiddish the next day. Additionally, achronim including the Chaye Adam  ([[Shabbat]] 6:2), Aruch HaShulchan 271:21, and Ben Ish Chai (Beresheet 19) hold that we don't say Vayichulu if the Kiddish is said during the day since Vayichulu was instituted for the incoming of [[Shabbat]]. [This finds it's source in the Magid Mishna (Hilchot [[Shabbat]] 29:4).] </ref>
# If one forgot to say Kiddish on Friday night and only remembered during Ben HaShemashot of Saturday, one should say Kiddish then with Shem UMalchut, however, according to Ashkenazim as long as one davened any of the [[Shabbat]] prayers, if one needs to make Kiddush during Ben HaShemashot it should be done without Shem Umalchut. <ref> Ben Ish Chai Beresheet 19 writes that one could argue that since according to the Magan Avraham, once one prayed on [[Shabbat]] the obligation of Kiddish is only Derabbanan and in a case of doubt such as Ben HaShemashot, we should apply the rule of Safek Derabbanan Lekula. However, the Ben Ish Chai rejects such an argument because there are those who limit the Magan Avraham to a case when one doesn't have wine or one had Kavana to fulfill one's obligation. Therefore, one can still make Kiddish during Ben HaShemashot with a Bracha because of the rule Safek Deorittah LeChumra just like if there's a doubt concerning Birkat HaMazon. So rules Halichot Olam (vol 3, pg 25-7). However, the Mishna Brurah 271:39 (Shaar Tzion 47) rules that if one did say Tefillot [[Shabbat]] and it's Ben HaShemashot, one should make the bracha without Shem UMalchut. See http://www.dailyhalacha.com/Display.asp?ClipID=1866 </ref>
# If one forgot to say Kiddish on Friday night and only remembered during Ben HaShemashot of Saturday, one should say Kiddish then with Shem UMalchut, however, according to Ashkenazim as long as one davened any of the [[Shabbat]] prayers, if one needs to make Kiddush during Ben HaShemashot it should be done without Shem Umalchut. <ref> Ben Ish Chai Beresheet 19 writes that one could argue that according to the Magan Avraham, once one prayed on [[Shabbat]] the obligation of Kiddish is only Derabbanan and whenever there is a doubt about a Derabbanan obligation one may be lenient (Safek Derabbanan Lekula). If this was the case, one should say that if it is Ben HaShemashot one no longer needs to say Kiddush. However, the Ben Ish Chai rejects such an argument because some commentators limit the Magan Avraham to a case where one doesn't have wine or one specifically had Kavana in davening to fulfill one's obligation. Therefore, the Ben Ish Chai rules that one can still make Kiddish during Ben HaShemashot with a Bracha because of the rule Safek Deorittah LeChumra just like if there's a doubt concerning Birkat HaMazon. Halichot Olam (vol 3, pg 25-7) agrees. However, the Mishna Brurah 271:39 (Shaar Tzion 47) rules that if one did say Tefillot [[Shabbat]] and it's Ben HaShemashot, one should make the bracha without Shem UMalchut. See [http://www.dailyhalacha.com/Display.asp?ClipID=1866 Rabbi Mansour on Dailyhalacha.com]. </ref>


==Washing before making Kiddish==
==Washing before making Kiddish==
# One should make Kiddish before washing for bread. However, Bedieved, if one did wash with a bracha before making Kiddish, according to Sephardim, one should make Kiddish on bread and not on wine. <ref> Tur 271:12 in name of Rav Amram Goan (Siddur vol 2, Siman 17) writes that one should make Kiddish on wine and then wash for bread, however if one washed first one should make Kiddish on bread in accordance with Rav Bruna in Pesachim 106b. Rambam (Hilchot [[Shabbat]] 29:9-10) and the Ran's explanation of the Rif (22a) concur. Such was the minhag of the Maharam MeRotenburg (quoted in Tur 271:12) and so rules the S"A 271:12. Kaf HaChaim 271:76 adds that the Arizal (Shaar Kavanot 71c) agrees because the order should be kept as Kiddish being the completion of prayer and washing as the start of the meal. Gra 271:12, Maamer Mordechai 271:16, and Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 1 pg 273) concur with S"A. Therefore, Sephardim shouldn't change from the ruling of S"A even Bedieved. However, the Kaf HaChaim 271:77 argues that Bedieved one should say Kiddish on wine because one has what to rely on. </ref> According to Ashkenazim, Bedieved one can make still make the Kiddish on wine and then have the bread. <ref> However, the Rashbam (Pesachim 106b), and Baal HaMoar (Pesachim 21b D"H Amar Rav Bruna) explain the gemara differently than the Ran and say that lechatchila one should make Kiddish first, however if one doesn't one can still make Kiddish on wine. Rabbenu Tam (Pesachim 106b D"H Mekadesh) and the Ri (Pesachim  106b D"H Zimnin) hold that even Lechatchila one should wash before making Kiddish on wine. Hagot Maimon 29:100, Sh"t Rashba 1:752, Rokeach (115), and Mordechai (Pesachim 106b; pg 37c) side with Rabbenu Tam and Ri. Such was the minhag of the Rosh (quoted by Tur 271:12) and the minhag of Ashkenaz as writes the Rama 271:12. The Taz 271:14 and Chaye Adam ([[Shabbat]] 6:12) rule that the Rama is only bedieved. Therefore, Mishna Brurah 271:62 writes that since many achronim side with Shulchan Aruch and one satisfies all opinions one should make Kiddish first, however Bedieved one can rely on the Rama to make Kiddish on wine if one did in fact wash first. Kaf HaChaim 271:77 adds in the name of the Bach that if one didn't make the bracha on Netilat yadayim one should make Kiddish on wine and then rewash so that one doesn't loose the Kiddish over wine. </ref>
# One should make Kiddish before washing for bread. However, Bedieved, if one did wash with a bracha before making Kiddish, according to Sephardim, one should make Kiddish on bread and not on wine. <ref>  
* Tur 271:12 quotes Rav Amram Goan (Siddur vol 2, Siman 17) who wrote that one should make Kiddish on wine and then wash for bread, however, if one washed first one should make Kiddish on bread in accordance with Rav Bruna in Pesachim 106b. Rambam (Hilchot [[Shabbat]] 29:9-10) and the Ran in explaining the Rif (22a) concur. The Maharam MeRotenburg's (quoted by the Tur 271:12) practice was to make Kiddush before washing. S"A 271:12 rules that one should make Kiddush and then wash, however, if one washed first one should make Kiddush on the bread.  
* Kaf HaChaim 271:76 adds that the Arizal (Shaar Kavanot 71c) agrees because the order should be kept as Kiddish being the completion of prayer and washing as the start of the meal. Gra 271:12, Maamer Mordechai 271:16, and Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 1 pg 273) concur with S"A. Therefore, Sephardim shouldn't change from the ruling of S"A even Bedieved. However, the Kaf HaChaim 271:77 argues that Bedieved one should say Kiddish on wine because one has what to rely on. </ref> According to Ashkenazim, Bedieved one can make still make the Kiddish on wine and then have the bread. <ref> However, the Rashbam (Pesachim 106b), and Baal HaMoar (Pesachim 21b D"H Amar Rav Bruna) explain the gemara differently than the Ran and say that lechatchila one should make Kiddish first, however if one doesn't one can still make Kiddish on wine. Rabbenu Tam (Pesachim 106b D"H Mekadesh) and the Ri (Pesachim  106b D"H Zimnin) hold that even Lechatchila one should wash before making Kiddish on wine. Hagot Maimon 29:100, Sh"t Rashba 1:752, Rokeach (115), and Mordechai (Pesachim 106b; pg 37c) side with Rabbenu Tam and Ri. Such was the minhag of the Rosh (quoted by Tur 271:12) and the minhag of Ashkenaz as writes the Rama 271:12. The Taz 271:14 and Chaye Adam ([[Shabbat]] 6:12) rule that the Rama is only bedieved. Therefore, Mishna Brurah 271:62 writes that since many achronim side with Shulchan Aruch and one satisfies all opinions one should make Kiddish first, however Bedieved one can rely on the Rama to make Kiddish on wine if one did in fact wash first. Kaf HaChaim 271:77 adds in the name of the Bach that if one didn't make the bracha on Netilat yadayim one should make Kiddish on wine and then rewash so that one doesn't loose the Kiddish over wine. </ref>
# Nonetheless, some Ashkenazim have the Minhag (specifically German Jews) to specifically wash before making Kiddish over wine and they have what to rely on. <ref> See previous note. Rama 271:12 writes that such was the minhag of Ashkenaz to wash before Kiddish. The Bet Yosef 271:12 comments that he saw some Sephardim who had such a practice but sternly disagreed based on the Rif and Rambam. </ref>
# Nonetheless, some Ashkenazim have the Minhag (specifically German Jews) to specifically wash before making Kiddish over wine and they have what to rely on. <ref> See previous note. Rama 271:12 writes that such was the minhag of Ashkenaz to wash before Kiddish. The Bet Yosef 271:12 comments that he saw some Sephardim who had such a practice but sternly disagreed based on the Rif and Rambam. </ref>
# There is no difference concerning the order between the one making the Kiddish and other members of the family. <ref> Magan Avraham 271:26 in name of Hagot Mordechai (it seems that he means Mordechai pg 37b), Bach 271:11 (D"H VeleInyan) distinguish between the one making Kiddish and the other members of the family for whom Kiddish won't be an interruption. Kaf HaChaim 271:79 argues that there's no difference between the one making Kiddish and the other family members. </ref>
# There is no difference concerning the order between the one making the Kiddish and other members of the family. <ref> Magan Avraham 271:26 in name of Hagot Mordechai (it seems that he means Mordechai pg 37b), Bach 271:11 (D"H VeleInyan) distinguish between the one making Kiddish and the other members of the family for whom Kiddish won't be an interruption. Kaf HaChaim 271:79 argues that there's no difference between the one making Kiddish and the other family members. </ref>
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# In the place where one made Kiddish one should make sure to have a meal there. <ref>Shmuel in Gemara Pesachim 101a says that one should only say Kiddush in the place where one is going to have a meal. The Rosh (Pesachim 10:5) says that this is based on the pasuk "VeKarata LeShabbat Oneg" which Chazal explain with "Kriyah" as a reference to Kiddush and "Oneg" to the meal and so the pasuk means, in the place of Oneg one should have Kriyah. S"A 273:4 and Kitzur S"A 77:14 codify this as the halacha.</ref>
# In the place where one made Kiddish one should make sure to have a meal there. <ref>Shmuel in Gemara Pesachim 101a says that one should only say Kiddush in the place where one is going to have a meal. The Rosh (Pesachim 10:5) says that this is based on the pasuk "VeKarata LeShabbat Oneg" which Chazal explain with "Kriyah" as a reference to Kiddush and "Oneg" to the meal and so the pasuk means, in the place of Oneg one should have Kriyah. S"A 273:4 and Kitzur S"A 77:14 codify this as the halacha.</ref>
# One should begin to eat something immediately after Kiddish. After the fact, as long as one had intent to eat immediately one doesn't need to make Kiddish again even if one made a long interruption and had a Hesech HaDaat (interruption of thought). However, if one didn't have intent to eat right away and then made an interruption of 72 minutes a new Kiddush is needed. <ref> Preferably, Rama 273:3 writes that one should make one's meal immediately after Kiddish. Mishna Brurah 273:12 explains that preferably, one should eat one's meal right after Kiddish without waiting. However, Bedieved, Mishna Brurah 273:12 and Piskei Teshuvot 273:3 based on Aruch HaShulchan 263:1 write that one shouldn't make a new Kiddish even if one had a long break or made a change in place and returned to the place of the Kiddish. On the other hand, if one didn't have in mind to eat immediately and then made an interruption, Mishna Brurah 273:14 writes that a new Kiddush is needed. Halichot Olam (vol 3, pg 3) defines this interruption as 72 minutes. </ref>
# One should begin to eat something immediately after Kiddish. After the fact, as long as one had intent to eat immediately one doesn't need to make Kiddish again even if one made a long interruption and had a Hesech HaDaat (interruption of thought). However, if one didn't have intent to eat right away and then made an interruption of 72 minutes a new Kiddush is needed. <ref> Preferably, Rama 273:3 writes that one should make one's meal immediately after Kiddish. Mishna Brurah 273:12 explains that preferably, one should eat one's meal right after Kiddish without waiting. However, Bedieved, Mishna Brurah 273:12 and Piskei Teshuvot 273:3 based on Aruch HaShulchan 263:1 write that one shouldn't make a new Kiddish even if one had a long break or made a change in place and returned to the place of the Kiddish. On the other hand, if one didn't have in mind to eat immediately and then made an interruption, Mishna Brurah 273:14 writes that a new Kiddush is needed. Halichot Olam (vol 3, pg 3) defines this interruption as 72 minutes. </ref>
# In order to have Kiddish in the place where one eats and that the Kiddish is considered a proper Kiddish, one must eat at least a [[Kezayit]] of mezonot, bread, or a reviat of wine. <ref> S"A 173:5 writes in name of the Geonim that one can fulfill the obligation to eat in the place of where one makes Kiddish by eating bread or wine. Magan Avraham 173:10 and Mishna Brurah 173:21 rule that a [[Kezayit]] is needed to fulfill this obligation. Mishna Brurah 173:25 comments that certainly mezonot fulfills the obligation as it's more significant than wine. Mishna Brurah 173:25 writes in name of Hagot Rabbi Akiva Eiger and Tosefet [[Shabbat]] that wine doesn't fulfill one's obligation according to many and so one should only rely on this in cases of need. Piskei Teshuvot writes that it seems that there's a dispute between the Magan Avraham 173:11 and the Shaarei Teshuva 289:1 whether one can fulfill one's fulfill with mezonot that's not Pat HaBah Bekisnin. The Mishna Brurah 173:25 holds like the Magan Avraham and one can fulfill one's obligation by having any mezonot. So rules Shemirat [[Shabbat]] KeHilchato 52:24, Sh"T Az Nidabru 8:31, Kiddush KeHilchato (pg 195), Sh"T Or Letzion (vol 2, 20:28), and Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 1 pg 196; Halichot Olam (Vol 3, pg 1)). </ref>
# In order to have Kiddish in the place where one eats and that the Kiddish is considered a proper Kiddish, one must eat at least a [[Kezayit]] of mezonot, bread, or a reviat of wine. <ref> S"A 173:5 writes in name of the Geonim that one can fulfill the obligation to eat in the place of where one makes Kiddish by eating bread or wine. Magan Avraham 173:10 and Mishna Brurah 173:21 rule that a [[Kezayit]] is needed to fulfill this obligation. Mishna Brurah 173:25 comments that certainly mezonot fulfills the obligation as it's more significant than wine. Mishna Brurah 173:25 writes in name of Hagot Rabbi Akiva Eiger and Tosefet [[Shabbat]] that wine doesn't fulfill one's obligation according to many and so one should only rely on this in cases of need. Piskei Teshuvot writes that it seems that there's a dispute between the Magan Avraham 173:11 and the Shaarei Teshuva 289:1 whether one can fulfill one's fulfill with mezonot that's not Pat HaBah Bekisnin. The Mishna Brurah 173:25 holds like the Magan Avraham and one can fulfill one's obligation by having any mezonot. Shemirat [[Shabbat]] KeHilchato 52:24, Sh"T Az Nidabru 8:31, Kiddush KeHilchato (pg 195), Sh"t Or Letzion (vol 2, 20:28), and Yalkut Yosef ([[Shabbat]] vol 1 pg 196; Halichot Olam (Vol 3, pg 1)) agree. </ref>


== Women ==
== Women ==
# The Mitzvah of Kiddush is exceptional in that women are obligated even though it is a  Mitzvat Aseh She’Hazman Grama, based on a Talmudic derivation that since women are obligated by the prohibitions of [[Shabbat]], they are also obligated in the positive commandments of the day.<ref>On Berachot 20b, Rava says that women are obligated in Kiddish on a Deoritta level because the torah compares the positive and negative commandments of [[Shabbat]] by swiching the terms "Zachor" and "Shamor" implying that anyone who is obligated in the negative commands is also obligated in the positive ones. So rules the S"A 271:2 and Kitzur S"A 77:4. A woman's obligation applies both at night (Mishna Berura 271:3) and during the day (Mishna Berura 289:6). Maharam Chalava pesachim 106a "bayom mai" disagrees and says that women aren't obligated during the day </ref>
# The Mitzvah of Kiddush is exceptional in that women are obligated even though it is a  Mitzvat Aseh She’Hazman Grama, based on a Talmudic derivation that since women are obligated by the prohibitions of [[Shabbat]], they are also obligated in the positive commandments of the day.<ref>On Berachot 20b, Rava says that women are obligated in Kiddish on a Deoritta level because the torah compares the positive and negative commandments of [[Shabbat]] by swiching the terms "Zachor" and "Shamor" implying that anyone who is obligated in the negative commands is also obligated in the positive ones. S"A 271:2 and Kitzur S"A 77:4 codify this as the halacha. A woman's obligation applies both at night (Mishna Berura 271:3) and during the day (Mishna Berura 289:6). Maharam Chalava pesachim 106a "bayom mai" disagrees and says that women aren't obligated during the day </ref>
# Since women are obligation on a biblical level, they should either listen to they husband or another adult make Kiddish and answer Amen or say it themselves. <ref> Since women are obligated in Kiddish on a biblical level, they can definitely make Kiddish for themselves. Additionally since a man is obligated, a women can fulfill her obligation with the man's Kiddish as they both have a Deorittah obligation. According the Magan Avraham that one fulfills the Deorittah obligation in prayer, if a man and women both have already prayed, they are can fulfill each other's obligation since they have equal obligations. However, if the man prayed and the women didn't, then the man is obligated on a Rabbinical level and the women is obligated on a Biblical level. If so, Rav Yechezkel Landau in Dagul Mirvavah 271:2 asks, whether the women can't fulfill her obligation with the man's reading, or perhaps she can because nonetheless, men are able to fulfill the obligation of others using Arevim Zeh LaZeh (the side is also not definite because the Rosh (Brachot 3:13 last line) writes that women aren't included in Aravim). He leaves it unanswered and the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:4 writes that it's preferable that women say the kiddish along with the one making Kiddish so that they are fulfilling their own obligation. However, the Sh"t Rabbi Akiva Eiger 1:7 argues that certainly women are included in Arevim Zeh LaZeh (and explains that the Rosh was talking about mitzvot that women are exempt from) and so a man with a Derabbanan obligation can fulfill a woman's obligation even if she is has a Deorittah obligation. Aruch HaShulchan 271:6 and Chazon Ovadyah ([[Shabbat]] vol 2 pg 24) concur. </ref>
# Since women are obligation on a biblical level, they should either listen to they husband or another adult make Kiddish and answer Amen or say it themselves. <ref> Since women are obligated in Kiddish on a biblical level, they can definitely make Kiddish for themselves. Additionally since a man is obligated, a women can fulfill her obligation with the man's Kiddish as they both have a Deorittah obligation. According the Magan Avraham that one fulfills the Deorittah obligation in prayer, if a man and women both have already prayed, they are can fulfill each other's obligation since they have equal obligations. However, if the man prayed and the women didn't, then the man is obligated on a Rabbinical level and the women is obligated on a Biblical level. If so, Rav Yechezkel Landau in Dagul Mirvavah 271:2 asks, whether the women can't fulfill her obligation with the man's reading, or perhaps she can because nonetheless, men are able to fulfill the obligation of others using Arevim Zeh LaZeh (the side is also not definite because the Rosh (Brachot 3:13 last line) writes that women aren't included in Aravim). He leaves it unanswered and the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 77:4 writes that it's preferable that women say the kiddish along with the one making Kiddish so that they are fulfilling their own obligation. However, the Sh"t Rabbi Akiva Eiger 1:7 argues that certainly women are included in Arevim Zeh LaZeh (and explains that the Rosh was talking about mitzvot that women are exempt from) and so a man with a Derabbanan obligation can fulfill a woman's obligation even if she is has a Deorittah obligation. Aruch HaShulchan 271:6 and Chazon Ovadyah ([[Shabbat]] vol 2 pg 24) concur. </ref>
# A women can fulfill the obligation of her husband and family. <ref> S"A 271:2 writes that since women are obligated in Kiddish on a Deorittah level, they can fulfill the obligation of a man who also has such an obligation. Even though the Maharshal and Bach argue with this, the Taz, Magan Araham, Gra, Mishna Brurah 271:4 all agree with Shulchan Aruch that a women can fulfill the obligation of a man. Nonetheless, Eliyah Rabbah, Derech Chaim, and Mishna Brurah 271:4 write that it's preferable that a women doesn't fulfill the obligation of men not in her family because it's not entirely appropriate. </ref>
# A women can fulfill the obligation of her husband and family. <ref> S"A 271:2 writes that since women are obligated in Kiddish on a Deorittah level, they can fulfill the obligation of a man who also has such an obligation. Even though the Maharshal and Bach argue with this, the Taz, Magan Araham, Gra, Mishna Brurah 271:4 all agree with Shulchan Aruch that a women can fulfill the obligation of a man. Nonetheless, Eliyah Rabbah, Derech Chaim, and Mishna Brurah 271:4 write that it's preferable that a women doesn't fulfill the obligation of men not in her family because it's not entirely appropriate. </ref>